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Stannis, Victarion or Kevan - Who is/was the most dutiful younger brother?


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#1 The Onion Sleight

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 04:04 AM

I think, all these men are excellent examples for loyal, dutiful brothers; now, who wins the "contest"?

Of course, their relationships to their older brothers are/were very different:
While there was no love between Stannis and Robert, and Stannis was very dissatisfied with Robert's way of ruling (resp. non-ruling), Vic and Kevan both admired Balon and Tywin and recognized their (in their views) greatness.
Now is Euron Vic's eldest brother, a man he'd kill if there wasn't his god's hate for kinslaying (and Balon forbade it in the past), but his obedient and dutiful nature keeps him following Euron's orders.

All of them served loyal and faithfully (although, yes, I know, Stannis left KL and fled to Dragonstone pre-AGOT), who the most and do you think that's a compliment (especially if your older brother is e.g. Tywin or Euron)?

#2 King of Winters

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 04:46 AM

I think it's Stannis. Unlike the rest he didn't have a good relationship with his older bother, which makes him even more loyal to his brother. He held Storms End for Robert, and when given Dragonstone he still did his duty to Robert and helped him with the Greyjoy rebellion, and remained on the Small Council as Master of Ships.

#3 Lord Reaver

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 05:37 AM

Vic, without a doubt. He refrained from killing Euron, after he'd seduced his wife. It doesn't get much more dutiful than that.

#4 Mikkel

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 05:49 AM

I'm going to have to go with Stannis, as the question specifically asks about duty. Given the strained relationship between Stannis and old Bobby B, whereas the other two admired their older brothers.

 

Vic, without a doubt. He refrained from killing Euron, after he'd seduced his wife. It doesn't get much more dutiful than that.

 

I suppose that's a decent point in Vic's favor (as far as being dutiful goes), though there's also the taboo of kinslaying to factor in, as well as the fact that Euron was exiled (ie, punished).



#5 Nictarion

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 05:52 AM

Have to go with Kevan. Stannis abandoned Robert when he had information that could have saved his life. Victarion wants to kill his brother, it's only the taboo of kinslaying that stops him. He also has plans to betray Euron and take Dany for a wife himself. Kevan was definitely the best brother of the three. He served Tywin well.

Edited by Nictarion, 03 August 2014 - 06:01 AM.


#6 Bronn Urgundy

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 05:53 AM

Kevan. Stannis did actually know about the twincest, and while there were other people that knew and didn't blab and various and similar reasons (but of course Stannis takes all the flak) fact remains he was gone when he was needed most.



#7 Lord Reaver

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 06:08 AM

I suppose that's a decent point in Vic's favor (as far as being dutiful goes), though there's also the taboo of kinslaying to factor in, as well as the fact that Euron was exiled (ie, punished).


Following that taboo is being dutiful. And Euron wasn't exiled right away, it seeems fairly clear Vic could have killed him if he'd wanted to.

Also, you have to take this fact with the fact that Vic has done everything the other two guys have, he's fought his brother's battles for over thirty years, risking his life without even thinking of taking the throne for himself.

It's easy being dutiful for Kevan, Tywin only does good by him. Victarion and Stannis have to see swallow a lot more, what with being refused Storm's end, and having to see his other brother get away with seducing his wife. The only thing going against Vic is not supporting Asha after Balon's death. But then again, Stannis doesn't support the heir Robert wanted to follow him, either.

It's a close call between Stannis and Vic, really. Kevan doesn't even get close.

#8 Red Tiger

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 06:18 AM

Kevan easily. Stannis is all duty this, duty that, but he allowed his resentment of Bobby B to get the better of him in the end.

 

Victarion's hatred of Euron is leading him to go against his older brother's command.

 

I will say this though, out of all these younger brothers, it seems Kevan was treated the most respectfully by his elder. Kevan never really has a bad thing to say about Tywin, while Victarion and Stannis have strong reason to dislike Euron and Robert.



#9 Konradsmith

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 06:20 AM

It's gotta be Kev for the reasons above posters have given. Unlike Vic and Stan, Kev managed to not even resent his prick older brother!


Edited by Konradsmith, 03 August 2014 - 06:21 AM.


#10 Alayne's Shadow.

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 06:24 AM

Kevan is the most dutiful.



#11 No Song so Sweet

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 06:40 AM

Nice topic! It is a really close contest. I would go with Victarion to Balon. Stannis didn't do much for Robert willingly, he just obeyed his commands, and Robert was no failure. Kevan did a lot for Tywin but Tywin was smart. However Balon was an idiot and Victarion was willingly helpful to him, not just dutiful, so i vote Vic.  



#12 Torph

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 06:47 AM

I would have to say that of this list Stannis is the least dutiful of all younger brothers.  Stannis was aware of the findings of Jon Arryn with regards to the incest of Jaime and Cersei and chose to flee Kings Landing as opposed to protecting his older brother from the knives that were circling.  I've been trying to figure out why Stannis would choose to leave without revealing the truth and thus saving Roberts life, was Melisandre in the service of Selyse by this point or after?  If Melisandre came to Dragonstone prior to Stannis leaving Kings Landing that would suggest to me that she played a part in Roberts death by informing Stannis that he was the Prince that was promised?  If that makes sense.



#13 Wavey Sauce

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 07:01 AM

Stannis nearly starved to death along with his wife and his garrison. He held the castle and wouldnt give up under any circumstances, he stayed loyal and kept his word



#14 Wavey Sauce

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 07:04 AM

It's gotta be Kev for the reasons above posters have given. Unlike Vic and Stan, Kev managed to not even resent his prick older brother!

 

Kev was never put in a position where he would end up resenting Tywin, Stannis was



#15 Wavey Sauce

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 07:06 AM

Have to go with Kevan. Stannis abandoned Robert when he had information that could have saved his life. Victarion wants to kill his brother, it's only the taboo of kinslaying that stops him. He also has plans to betray Euron and take Dany for a wife himself. Kevan was definitely the best brother of the three. He served Tywin well.

 

Thats because he felt his life was in danger as well, so wanted to get somewhere safe and plan his next move from there. He figured Arryn died because of what they were looking into and felt he would be next



#16 Nictarion

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 07:08 AM

 
Thats because he felt his life was in danger as well, so wanted to get somewhere safe and plan his next move from there. He figured Arryn died because of what they were looking into and felt he would be next

I've heard all the excuses before.

#17 Super Daario

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 07:10 AM

Ser Kevan all the way. 

 

I count Kevan as one of the best human beings in the series. Not only was he loyal to his brother, but he loved him, too. He balanced out Tywin's coldness and cruelty, to some effect.

 

I suppose in a technical sense, Stannis was always 'dutiful' to Robert.

 

Victarion was loyal to Balon but in more of a way resembling a soldier's obedience. Since he's now turning against Euron I don't think he's so 'dutiful' anymore.



#18 Nictarion

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 07:10 AM

 
Kev was never put in a position where he would end up resenting Tywin, Stannis was

Stannis was given a castle and a seat on the small council. He had nothing to be resentful about.

#19 Super Daario

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 07:11 AM

Stannis was given a castle and a seat on the small council. He had nothing to be resentful about.

 

Stannis doesn't want to be 'given' anything. He wants what is his by rights. And, well, he's right. Robert screwed him.



#20 yomi

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 07:15 AM

If we are talking about the best or most loyal brother, I'd say Kevan. But Kevan's duty is eased by the fact that there is love and respect amongst the brothers. Kevan doesn't seem to follow Tywin because he cares about duty, but because he believes Tywin is grat and tha best thing that could have happened to house Lannister and Tywin cares a lot for Kevan's advice.

 

The relationship between Balon and Vic seemed to be quiet similar. I'm not sure if Balon cared for Vic's advice, but he certainly valued his battle power.

With Euron and Victarion it's different of course. Victarion hates this brother and he didn't kill him only because that would be kinslaying. But obviously he doesn't feel compelled to follow and obey his older brother Euron when Balon dies and Euron comes back from exil. No, he makes his own claim on the kingsmoot. Later, he does as Euron commands, but mostly because he feels bound to the decision of the kingsmoot of which he was part. And when Euron send him to Daenerys to fetch her as Euron's bride he decides to disobey and marry her himself instead.

 

Stannis never felt respected by Robert, still he follows him into rebellion, breaking his beloved law, because he considers the duty to follow his older brother more holy than the duty to follow his king. Even when Robert denies him Storm's End and gives him the much poorer prize of Dragonstone, he remains dutyfully loyal - grudgingly and complaining, but still doing what is required of him by Robert. But indeed, not informing Robert about the incest and hiding at Dragonstone instead seems like treason. We now to little about his reasons to really condemn him, but it certainly makes it difficult to call Stannis the most dutyful.

 

  • Stannis - remained loyal to his brother even though this was hard for a long time, but seems to have betrayed him at the end.
  • Vic - remained loyal to Balon which was relatively easy, goes against Euron at first, then accepts the decision of the kingsmoot, but finally decides to betray his king.
  • Kevan - remained loyal to Tywin for all his life which was relatively easy, but when Tywin dies he finds it hard to obey Tywin's heiress and doesn't, although this can be defended by saying that he still tries to act in Tywin's and House Lannister's best interest.

 

All that said, I can't really decide on who is the most dutyful brother.