Jon Snow traveling beyond the Wall again?

[It_is_Known_]

Martin confirmed in March 2012 that the final two novels will take readers further north than any of the previous books: "What lies really north in my books—we haven't explored that yet, but we will in the last two books."^[2] He added, "you're definitely going to see more of the Others"

I just copy&pasted that from http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/The_Winds_of_Winter

but, if it's true that we'll see more of the North than we ever have before, and it's defintely true, then obviously that will mean we have to have a POV character venture beyond the Wall again. Now my first guess is Jon Snow, because I believe he will end up actually leading the WW army like the Revelations theory says. Also though I suppose it could be Tormund Giatsbane or maybe even a chapter from the Wight King himself. This is my first time to post so I apologize if I didn't do anything the "correct" way.

[Christian Walters]

I really hope that George RR Martin doesn't "resurrect" Jon Snow mostly because SO many people are predicting that that is going to happen. I still want him to either be in a coma to heighten his warging abilities or be actually dead, which I really hope doesn't happen. I don't think there will be a POV chapter from the Night's King, I think that's who you're talking about when you said Wight King, mostly because it will completely take away the mysterious trait that is with the Others. In one of my posts in the "General" section of this website, I talk about how Sam may come back to the Wall once he finds out that Jon Snow has been killed. I'm more leaning Sam when it comes to going farther north. Bran is farther north than any other character right now so maybe Bloodraven will take him places through the weirwood trees but that is debatable. Tormund I think would be an interesting character for a POV only because he will be the only Wilding character with a POV. Nothing else. We'll just have to wait and see what happens. Winds cannot come any faster!

Side Note: I think Winds will definitely be out next year. George is really buckling down on his writing and he isn't doing any other projects so I have high hopes right now. :drool:

[rhymeswithleek]

Perhaps, but I'm not sure anyone will visit there physically, I suspect Bran will be our eyes and ears for much of what's happening in the Land of Always Winter - whatever's that far north is heading south which is why Westeros is in danger, everyone will be on the defensive so I'm not sure I can see a reason for anyone else going there. I wouldn't want absolutely everything revealed anyway, it would be nice to preserve the mystique of the place.

There is, of course, a bit of a tinfoily option in that one of the characters we already know could become the Night King and serve as a POV for the white walkers...admittedly that could be kind of awesome.

[Plantzombie]

Everybody is so convinced that Jon is alive ^^ I really hope he is dead, and by dead I mean no resurrections. That would be extremly cheesy.

I don't think we will see the Lands of Always Winter with the eyes of a brother of the Night's Watch. I guess we'll see it through weirwoods in Bran's chapters.

[It_is_Known_]

Everybody is so convinced that Jon is alive ^^ I really hope he is dead, and by dead I mean no resurrections. That would be extremly cheesy.

I don't think we will see the Lands of Always Winter with the eyes of a brother of the Night's Watch. I guess we'll see it through weirwoods in Bran's chapters.

Lol what do you have against Jon? And yeah you're right about Bran, IMO it would just be better/cooler to have a character maybe get taken hostage back there or something. I would say that could be the epilogue with the PoV being sacrificed at the end but since GRRM recently said that Jeyne will be in it that kind of kills that dream.

[Plantzombie]

Lol what do you have against Jon? And yeah you're right about Bran, IMO it would just be better/cooler to have a character maybe get taken hostage back there or something. I would say that could be the epilogue with the PoV being sacrificed at the end but since GRRM recently said that Jeyne will be in it that kind of kills that dream.

I don't have anything against Jon. I just think it would be very Disney if he comes back to live just after he died, that's all.

[Christian Walters]

I don't have anything against Jon. I just think it would be very Disney if he comes back to live just after he died, that's all.

That's exactly how I feel. Jon Snow is an AMAZING character but he is done with his storyline. He rose from the lowest rank of the Night's Watch to the highest. He challenged the Night's Watch by bringing in Wildings and "helping" Stannis with his war. I don't think he is Azor Ahai, honestly but I'm not the author so I don't decide.

[Cold-King]

I don't have anything against Jon. I just think it would be very Disney if he comes back to live just after he died, that's all.

To be honest, I don't believe Jon ever died, I think his time in a coma would be just like Brans situation at the beginning, and he will come to grips with his warging abilities, I also feel all the Jon haters are like hipsters! you are all too cool to want a hero type! If the entirety of ASOIAF were to be released at once, and you weren't left in suspense, brooding over his fate, i think the majority of fans would be relieved he pulled through.

[JonisHenryTudor]

That's exactly how I feel. Jon Snow is an AMAZING character but he is done with his storyline. He rose from the lowest rank of the Night's Watch to the highest. He challenged the Night's Watch by bringing in Wildings and "helping" Stannis with his war. I don't think he is Azor Ahai, honestly but I'm not the author so I don't decide.

I don't think so.

As far as going further north, it is very possible that we get a prologue or something from Benjen Stark.

[Plantzombie]

I don't think so.

As far as going further north, it is very possible that we get a prologue or something from Benjen Stark.

GRRM already stated that Jeyne Westerling will make an appearance in the prologue, so a prologue beyond the wall is not possible.

[Big Daddy]

Like the previous poster stated, the prologue will have Jeyne Westerling in it so it won't be a POV prologue with some person or being from above the wall. Also, George has stated that there won't be any new POVs. I'd imagine the best way to see what's going on far, far ,far in the north is through Bran and Bloodraven. They can show us what's happening up there via Bloodraven's training of Bran, doing their Yoda/Luke thing impersonating a couple of birds on a tree limb spying on a ceremony the Others are having. Or watching the Other's army prepare to march south.

[JonSnowed]

The TV show has already revealed the Nights King that to me makes it clear that neither Jon or Stannis will be assuming that role. Also I am really surprised at the Jon hate on this thread - for me he is one of the major characters and I would be amazed if he is not around at the end of the ADOS. In my view Dany is far more likely to die than Jon before we reach the end.

Anyway going back to the original point it would not surprise me if Jon is the POV which shows us further north but I suspect it will be Bran as Jon, Stannis, Dany etc ultimately end up fighting the others to save Westeros.

[bemused]

I don't have anything against Jon. I just think it would be very Disney if he comes back to live just after he died, that's all.

He hasn't died. He may not have even lost consciousness , completely. The more closely you analyse the attack, the less likely it seems that he's dead , or even that his wounds are serious enough to put him out of commission for any great length of time.

GRRM has just left us in mid-action , including mid-thought for Jon. The chapter ends with "only the cold...". I've searched through and when GRRM uses this "..." it's most often a pause in the character's speech or thoughts which are completed immediately afterward - or, sometimes, the character is being interrupted by someone else in conversation.

We know Wick didn't do much damage , and in the case of Bowen and the third attacker, there's cause to doubt how successful they were if you look closely at the language George uses, and remember the speed with which it's all happening.

These doubts may be reinforced by recalling that back in AFfC, Sam notices a half finished shirt of ringmail on Jon's workbench.( This is well after Jon's election as LC, so it's not something Donal had been working on still lying there.) ... Perhaps Jon has not been quite as careless of his own safety as Mel thinks. ( It would hardly be the first time she had the wrong idea.)

And do you imagine that GRRM has made a point of Jon's occasional demonstrations of uncommon strength (or that he can be shocked into a berserker-like state) all for nothing ?

I'm expecting that we'll see some of these characteristics come into play immediately , probably including a sudden , deeper warging of Ghost than we've seen so far.

So I think we may eventually see Jon go beyond the wall and I agree Bran could also (somehow) be a likely candidate ... And since GRRM has also said we'll find out what happened to Benjen.. some of the far north story may come through him. I don't think he's dead yet ( or Coldhands) either .

ETA: I strongly suspect that Benjen comes back to tell the tale , though he may go north again, later.

ETA again : Big Daddy ... George said there would be no new POVs from characters we haven't met ... but we've "met" many characters who haven't yet had a POV. ... GRRM has lots of leeway without breaking his own rule.. and he could always change his rule if he needs to. Who would slap his fingers ?

[Christian Walters]

He hasn't died. He may not have even lost consciousness , completely. The more closely you analyse the attack, the less likely it seems that he's dead , or even that his wounds are serious enough to put him out of commission for any great length of time.

GRRM has just left us in mid-action , including mid-thought for Jon. The chapter ends with "only the cold...". I've searched through and when GRRM uses this "..." it's most often a pause in the character's speech or thoughts which are completed immediately afterward - or, sometimes, the character is being interrupted by someone else in conversation.

We know Wick didn't do much damage , and in the case of Bowen and the third attacker, there's cause to doubt how successful they were if you look closely at the language George uses, and remember the speed with which it's all happening.

These doubts may be reinforced by recalling that back in AFfC, Sam notices a half finished shirt of ringmail on Jon's workbench.( This is well after Jon's election as LC, so it's not something Donal had been working on still lying there.) ... Perhaps Jon has not been quite as careless of his own safety as Mel thinks. ( It would hardly be the first time she had the wrong idea.)

And do you imagine that GRRM has made a point of Jon's occasional demonstrations of uncommon strength (or that he can be shocked into a berserker-like state) all for nothing ?

I'm expecting that we'll see some of these characteristics come into play immediately , probably including a sudden , deeper warging of Ghost than we've seen so far.

So I think we may eventually see Jon go beyond the wall and I agree Bran could also (somehow) be a likely candidate ... And since GRRM has also said we'll find out what happened to Benjen.. some of the far north story may come through him. I don't think he's dead yet ( or Coldhands) either .

ETA: I strongly suspect that Benjen comes back to tell the tale , though he may go north again, later.

ETA again : Big Daddy ... George said there would be no new POVs from characters we haven't met ... but we've "met" many characters who haven't yet had a POV. ... GRRM has lots of leeway without breaking his own rule.. and he could always change his rule if he needs to. Who would slap his fingers ?

Do you have the source that shows him saying this? This is the first I've heard anything about Benjen regarding the new book.

[Jaden]

These doubts may be reinforced by recalling that back in AFfC, Sam notices a half finished shirt of ringmail on Jon's workbench.( This is well after Jon's election as LC, so it's not something Donal had been working on still lying there.) ... Perhaps Jon has not been quite as careless of his own safety as Mel thinks. ( It would hardly be the first time she had the wrong idea.)

I was under the impression that the knives stuck in Jon when he was stabbed...I don't have the book with me to double check though. Not that it matters in the end, I am fairly certain that Jon will live. Even if he does "die," Mel should have the power to resurrect him a la Thoros of Myr.

I am also hoping that we get a POV at Hardhome. Dead things, dead things in the water, a ruined town, stranded Nights Watch; I think it would be awesome to see.

[have mercedene]

The TV show has already revealed the Nights King that to me makes it clear that neither Jon or Stannis will be assuming that role. Also I am really surprised at the Jon hate on this thread - for me he is one of the major characters and I would be amazed if he is not around at the end of the ADOS. In my view Dany is far more likely to die than Jon before we reach the end.

Anyway going back to the original point it would not surprise me if Jon is the POV which shows us further north but I suspect it will be Bran as Jon, Stannis, Dany etc ultimately end up fighting the others to save Westeros.

I agree with you about it not being Jon or Stannis, but remember that the show and the books are not mutually exclusive...especially now that a lot of the show's storylines are caught up. The show's obviously going in a different direction than the books, and anyway they're not going to have unpublished book spoilers on the show.

I feel like Jon may do some "warging" to take us to the LoAW...but that's just me.

[Xanrn]

No because thats Bran story.

Bran is already half way there if not more.

Jon isn't going to the Lands of Always winter.

Bran is, he is the Prince that was Promised because Rhager and Aemon were idiots.

[bemused]

Do you have the source that shows him saying this? This is the first I've heard anything about Benjen regarding the new book.

I believe it will be somewhere in the SSMs.. It's not new.. He didn't say it very recently in relation to TWoW specifically.. I believe it was either just before or after the release of ADWD that I saw it , but he might have answered the same question even earlier.. He didn't promise Benjen in person but said that we would learn what happened to him...and I agree that there are many ways this could happen. Only time will tell.

However, I think that Benjen is one of 2 or 3 characters that are around behind the scenes ( just off-page ) in ADWD already. - Benjen being in Winterfell as the Hooded Man , IMO - keeping WF's magic defenses alive, and working hand-in-glove with the GNC ... until he can be replaced by a Stark best suited to take up rulership .

So I'm betting we'll get at least part of his story from the horse's mouth... Just my particular take.

I was under the impression that the knives stuck in Jon when he was stabbed...I don't have the book with me to double check though. Not that it matters in the end, I am fairly certain that Jon will live. Even if he does "die," Mel should have the power to resurrect him a la Thoros of Myr.

I am also hoping that we get a POV at Hardhome. Dead things, dead things in the water, a ruined town, stranded Nights Watch; I think it would be awesome to see.

I have an in-depth assessment that I've posted on another thread that I could give here if wanted .. but just one example, briefly..

Then Bowen Marsh stood there before him, tears running down his cheeks. “For the Watch.” He punched Jon in the belly. When he pulled his hand away, the dagger stayed where he had buried it.

Jon fell to his knees. He found the dagger’s hilt and wrenched it free. In the cold night air the wound was smoking. “Ghost,” he whispered. Pain washed over him. Stick them with the pointy end

"When he pulled his hand away," .. that would only be if he was "pulling" out the knife ( e.g. in order to stab again ) .. he didn't stab and then let go..

"the dagger stayed where he had buried it".. You can bury a thing IN something or UNDER something.. Does the use of the word hint at UNDER .. as in under , say, layers of garments ? If so, how many and what sort ..boiled or studded leather ? any fur ? Ringmail? ... Unknown, as yet...

Does it imply buried IN ... as in buried in Jon's belly ? Bellies are soft.. so why would the dagger stay where it was when Bowen pulled his hand away ?

Jon " found the dagger’s hilt and wrenched it free " ... WRENCHED it FREE from his soft belly ?.. This is not just pulling it out. It sounds like it's stuck or caught on something - like a shirt of ringmail (Which could have prevented all but the "pointiest end" from going in, in the first place ).

This dagger is unlikely to be Valyrian steel and Bowen is not the most powerful of attackers.

To me, the ringmail GRRM planted back in AFfC is "Chekov's ringmail". It's never discussed or even mentioned between characters. We don't see Jon working on it , yet he must have been ,off-page , since it was in his quarters , on his workbench .. and it's in that same scene where he tells Sam (after the raven pecks him,drawing blood), that they all bleed for the watch and to wear thicker gloves. I think he's been taking his own advice for some time. ( That's why he seems so unconcerned by Mel's warnings )

The rest of the scene can be subjected to the same kind of scrutiny with similar results , and we know how GRRM loves to play with language that can imply more than one thing.

ETA: I think we should all be hoping like hell that Mel does nothing to "resurrect" Jon or interfere with him in any way. Whatever special abilities he may have would only be depleted in the process. Look at Beric ... look at Stannis. I think Jon needs to be himself , completely.

[Makk]

That's exactly how I feel. Jon Snow is an AMAZING character but he is done with his storyline. He rose from the lowest rank of the Night's Watch to the highest. He challenged the Night's Watch by bringing in Wildings and "helping" Stannis with his war. I don't think he is Azor Ahai, honestly but I'm not the author so I don't decide.

I have to disagree with that. I think his story arc was only just getting interesting (I found the wall the slowest part of the first 3 books, but very interesting in book 5) and is still unresolved. Both the wildlings and nightswatch can continue without him but would be enriched if he was still there. There is also all the intrigue around his parentage which would have been a completely pointless waste of time if he was dead. My gut feeling is that he is one of the main 3 or 4 characters in the entire series and we will see quite a bit more of him.

[JonisHenryTudor]

GRRM already stated that Jeyne Westerling will make an appearance in the prologue, so a prologue beyond the wall is not possible.

Yes. But that is not what I was referring to. It was the claim that Jon's story is done.