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AGOT reading schedule for slow/busy/forgetful readers


Mathis of Rowan

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Well. OK. Probably I got more invested in it than I should be, but it's really a kind of stuff I like, and moreover having my flow charts it's also incredibly quick and easy to come up with some ideas, just have a look at one and one sees the solutions. ;) So if you don't have time to write down your ideas I'll write mine, ha :D At least for AFFC (with elements of ADWD), since that's what your mother will be starting soon. Not having anything to do with the fact it's likely the easiest one :P. (I may come up with ADWD, too, if I've finished it before she starts it). You may or may not want to find time to compare it with your solution. ;)



[Note for the others if there are any :D This idea contains explanations meaning it has spoilers for AFFC. If you perchance want such a schedule to actually use yourself, just tell that you exist (because I think quite likely you don't ;) ) And we'll make a readable version then, for now it's only a version to discuss.]



Idea 1:



1. Iron Islands


2. Samwell 1-2


3. Arya 1-2, Samwell 3, Arya 3


4. Samwell 4, Prologue, Samwell 5


5. ADWD Arya



6. Brienne


7. Sansa



8. Cersei 1-5 & Jaime 1-2


9. the beginning of Jaime 3 till he leaves King's Landing


10. Cersei 6-10


11. Jaime 3-7


12. ADWD Jaime and Cersei



13. Dorne


ADWD schedule starting with Quentyn




Ad. point 5.


ADWD Arya could be just after Arya 3, too. But if GRRM showed his sadistic nature once more by making his fans wait 6 years on this cliffhanger (well, especially sadistic one I'd try to imagine because the most obvious solution is, surprisingly, the good one, but you can't just get either the confirmation or rejection) maybe let's make your mom wait at least these 3 chapters instead of letting her read ahead immidiately, shall we? :devil: And we have less delay for Samwell this way.



Ad. point 7.


Brienne and Sansa could be the other way round, too, but I think it's better this way because starting with Sansa may be well, surely not a spoiler, but a suggestion that Brienne's mission has failed.



Ad. point 12.


That's unless Cersei's have some dependencies on another ADWD plots, haven't reached them as yet (though I chanced reading Jaime's because (ADWD spoiler)

I wanted to check Brienne's fate. So I basically say this so if you have wills and time to discuss this schedule, and for example you would want to say hers and Jaimes plot should be closer, or further away, or whatever, you can freely reference the fact their plots meet.






Idea 2:


1. Dorne


2. Iron Islands


3. Brienne, Sansa, Jaime and Cersei like above


4. Samwell and Arya like above


ADWD schedule starting with Jon



I like the 1st idea better, but the second one has some advantages in (hopefully) not letting the reader forget dislike for Jon's actions before they get to his chapters in ADWD. Though I think the 1st one has more advantages in that it's simply a better flow between plots in it, and I think it's less monotonous, it does not have "statistically favourite character" which is Arya left till the very end and so on (though in general, while making the schedule specifically for your mother some things may change if you know which characters she likes most). I just feel like it's the better of the two, that's it! :D



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I am pleased that you're so interested, I' really sorry I couldn't satisfy that interest in time. Your ideas for AFFC and ADWD sound good, pretty similar what i have done.


I can give you my short outline here, beginning with ACOK:



- Dany ACOK


-first half of Arya ACOK


-first half of Bran ACOK


-whole Jon ACOK


-Prologue +first Davos


-KL until Sansa II


-Theon until Stony Shore


-Winterfell until Bran's "escape"


-rest of Arya ACOK


-whole Catelyn ACOK


- Davos at SE


-KL rest of ACOK + first four of ASOS


-Rest of ACOK Bran/Theon


-first half of Davos ASOS


-first three Catelyn of ASOS


-first three Jaime


-next four KL


-Arya until her capture


-Jaime until he leaves HH


-Catelyn and Arya up to RW + Epilogue


- Sam, Jon and Bran of ASOS until Jon is back at CB


- Whole Dany ASOS


-KL until PW


-Rest of Sansa ASOS


-Rest of KL ASOS


-First two Cersei and first Jaime of AFFC


-First two Brienne


-Rest of Davos ASOS


-Battle at the Wall and aftermath (until Sam leaves)


-Sam until Braavos


-Arya end of ASOS until ADWD


-Iron Islands


-Sansa AFFC


-KL until Cersei's arrest


-Dorne (incl- ADWD)


-Rest of Brienne


(until that place, the schedule is fixed, I already have written it and I won't be able to change it since I'm currently 400km away from the books and my Mom ;)


-Rest of Sam + AFFC Prologue


-Rest of Jaime until ADWD


-Northern Storylines of ADWD


- Essos Storylines of ADWD (ending with YG in Westeros)


- Cersei + Epilogue of ADWD



edit: included Davos ASOS



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Thanks for writing it down, maybe there's something to change before your mom uses it. Or not - let's see :).

[edit: oh, and I see Davos edit, didn't even noticed his absence. But maybe that's because there is really no other place for him ]

I think I'll not think too closely about the part that's already used (or I'll keep it to myself :D), because that's only a way to waste your time you don't have too much ;) (maybe apart from one :D "-rest of Arya ACOK" and later "-KL rest of ACOK"? Seems like a great way to spoil the whole climax, because Arya knows about the outcome of Blackwater :D).

But to the future part, mostly I like it very much, but there's one idea I find rather terrible, and this one is dividing AFFC-Cersei into two parts. It's officially in non-changable part, but you always can text your mom "when you see Cersei, skip her" :D. Because maybe that's just me, but I in general never had any problem following ASOIAF (apart from the obvious situations where some character who barely was there reappears after a year of absence), but I had to go back quite a lot to catch all in the Cersei's storyline; to remember e.g. how actually did this whole Gyles Rosby get to the council and whom is he loyal to? and a lot of the similiar problems (because there were too many new character in quite similar situations, they only came up from nowhere and started to do politics). And some of the storylines (Rosby, Kevan, some else probably too) start in these 3 first chapters and a "slow forgetful reader" will clearly be lost. And I see no really valid reason why can't the whole KL plot be where you placed most of it?

Other notes:
1. I would make it:

- HotU once more.

- Essos Storylines.

Apart from that it wouldn't harm to refresh HotU at any moment of day or night, my point is that when you placed the Dany storyline at the beginning of ACOK... I think that some things could've been lost because of this. It's hard to talk about HotU in terms of "yes" and "no", but e.g. quite definitely there is at least one vision about Stannis and by no means your mother could've known it (accidentally, associating it with him was one of the easiest things in this whole mess if you read the chapter in its right place). Another example (not too distinct, though :D), maybe I'm wrong in it, but I rest my prediction about whether and to what extent Melisandre is going to succeed on one of HotU visions which I believe is about her (it may not be of course, so well...), and when your mother read it, she didn't even know that Melisandre existed. But well, anyway, no harm will come if she refreshes the chapter.

[edit] 2. - Sam until Braavos

-Arya end of ASOS until ADWD

You didn't forget that there must be a Sam chapter between Arya ones (Arya II < Samwell III < Cat of the Canals)? There is no other way whatever you do, I think?

3. And the last one is not for your mother, it's for me, as I'm reading ADWD now and not really 100% synchronously :D Does this ADWD schedule implies that ADWD-Cersei depends on some ESSOS storylines? I'd not really expected that, it'd be good to know if I cannot skip some Essos chapters and read Cersei first if I want to (obviously, please no "over-specific" answers ;) )?

I believe that's all of my niggling :D Cheers.

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(maybe apart from one :D "-rest of Arya ACOK" and later "-KL rest of ACOK"? Seems like a great way to spoil the whole climax, because Arya knows about the outcome of Blackwater :D).

I guess you're right (as I said I don't have the books with me at the moment). So Arya's last Clash chapter fits best right before her first Strom chapters I guess. Haven't heard any complaints about the spoiler though...

And I see no really valid reason why can't the whole KL plot be where you placed most of it?

Actually there are two reasons why the first KL chapters of Feast go immidiately after Tyrion's last ones in Storm. Firstly Cersei's first chapter takes place only hours after Tyrion's last one so it made sense to me to have these two in a row. I added the next chapters because the aftermath of Tywin's death is wrapped up there (funeral etc.) The political maneuvering doesn't really start until Cersei IV where she has the Council meeting with Merryweather, Rosby etc, so that's where I made the cut.(Additionally in that chapter there is talk about Jpn being LC, so that had to wait...)

The second reason is more of a pacing issue. The last KL chapters of Storm were really suspensefull and action-packed. So was the Battle at the Wall. I wanted to squeeze some slower parts of Feast in between, so these to climaxes don't follow directly after one another. Continueing the KL storyline for a bit seemed like a logical choice, additionally the first two Brienne chapters. That way the two climaxes are separated a bit and can hopefully both shine in their own way



Other notes:
1. I would make it:

- HotU once more.

- Essos Storylines.

Definitely an idea to think about... Honestly, I don't care about the House of the Undying that much, it didn't come to my mind that a "refreshing" of this chapter would make any sense. But yeah, there are definitely things that would be in a more clear light at that point. Although I probably won't include it in the "canon" schedule I think I'll write some kind of a sidenote or something like that.

You didn't forget that there must be a Sam chapter between Arya ones (Arya II < Samwell III < Cat of the Canals)? There is no other way whatever you do, I think?

I didn't forget ;-)

3. And the last one is not for your mother, it's for me, as I'm reading ADWD now and not really 100% synchronously :D Does this ADWD schedule implies that ADWD-Cersei depends on some ESSOS storylines? I'd not really expected that, it'd be good to know if I cannot skip some Essos chapters and read Cersei first if I want to (obviously, please no "over-specific" answers ;) )?


I'm not entirely sure for the Cersei chapters but in the Epilogue (which takes place in KL) there is some influence from the Essos storylines. Additionally there is one chapter of a minor POV-character who starts the book in Essos that takes place in Westeros. However this chapter cannot be read after the earlier chapters of this POV where he/she interacts with another POV. Said chapter is the one whose events influence the KL storyline.

I think at least Cersei I is safe, for Cersei II I don't know.

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I guess you're right (as I said I don't have the books with me at the moment). So Arya's last Clash chapter fits best right before her first Strom chapters I guess. Haven't heard any complaints about the spoiler though...

I flipped through the digital version and it seems like your mother (well, or you, it depends :D) got really lucky, because as far as I saw GRRM just never used the keyword "Blackwater" while discussing it, there are only the references to some battle between lord Tywin and Stannis:

"King Stannis thought that Lord Tywin was a thousand leagues away as well, and it undid him. (...) Highgarden has joined itself to Joffrey’s cause. (...) If Lord Tywin could defeat a seasoned man like Stannis Baratheon, what chance will our boy king have against him?"

So when it came to the battle, it didn't ring a bell that it's just the one she'd already heard of.

But of course, if once someone else wants you schedules too, this one definitely needs rescheduling - and in that day it would also require a bit more of thinking, because simple sticking it to her ASOS chapters is not good either - it'd mean that Vargo chopped off Jaime's hand before we see him in Harrenhal and I think that even before we know he's on Robb's side now. So some further changes would be needed there, but that's a discussion for the future, because maybe those parts that your mother has already read will not be used anymore and there's no purpose in finding Arya a better place.

(But if such a day comes, I think that from this whole schedule that is the one thing I'd definitely encourage you to review, the ending of ACOK. About 15 ACOK chapters and even some ASOS ones between Bran and Rickon's "death" and the reveal they're alive, while in the books those are the adjacent chapters? It's downward cruel!!! Do you try to be more sadistic than GRRM himself? :D
Well... apparently you do, because you did the same with Arya's "death"... xP)

If you say that really there is no strong connection between this beginning and the rest of the plot, then is seems my complaint is not valid. And I must say that now that you pointed it, deliberate alienating the battle of Castle Black is a really brilliant idea, before the ASOS climax it would be distracting, after it it would be disappointing, because one would expect ending with the strongest blow - and the battle, while great, can't hope to beat the main plot climaxes. I'm into it, then! ;)

Definitely an idea to think about... Honestly, I don't care about the House of the Undying that much, it didn't come to my mind that a "refreshing" of this chapter would make any sense. But yeah, there are definitely things that would be in a more clear light at that point. Although I probably won't include it in the "canon" schedule I think I'll write some kind of a sidenote or something like that.

Yeah, no harm here, when your mother already know what the chapter is about, then no reason why she shouldn't choose herself. (But don't underrate HotU, you got the whole book-long filler plot only to see it! :D)

I'm not entirely sure for the Cersei chapters but in the Epilogue (which takes place in KL) there is some influence from the Essos storylines. Additionally there is one chapter of a minor POV-character who starts the book in Essos that takes place in Westeros. However this chapter cannot be read after the earlier chapters of this POV where he/she interacts with another POV. Said chapter is the one whose events influence the KL storyline.

I think at least Cersei I is safe, for Cersei II I don't know.

Thanks, I'll know to be careful about that :)

Actually there are two reasons why the first KL chapters of Feast go immidiately after Tyrion's last ones in Storm. Firstly Cersei's first chapter takes place only hours after Tyrion's last one so it made sense to me to have these two in a row. I added the next chapters because the aftermath of Tywin's death is wrapped up there (funeral etc.) The political maneuvering doesn't really start until Cersei IV where she has the Council meeting with Merryweather, Rosby etc, so that's where I made the cut.(Additionally in that chapter there is talk about Jpn being LC, so that had to wait...)

The second reason is more of a pacing issue. The last KL chapters of Storm were really suspensefull and action-packed. So was the Battle at the Wall. I wanted to squeeze some slower parts of Feast in between, so these to climaxes don't follow directly after one another. Continuing the KL storyline for a bit seemed like a logical choice, additionally the first two Brienne chapters. That way the two climaxes are separated a bit and can hopefully both shine in their own way

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Oh, and just one more thing that just came into my mind, I don't know whether you are aware of it, because I've only thought about this schedule story-wise and haven't seen this problem before. Not having read ADWD I don't know if it's a valid problem for now, but potentially it could be.


The case is one again about Bran's death. You put Jon at the beginning of ACOK after Dany, which is - story-wise - definitely the best choice after AGOT ended with Jon and Dany, respectively. However, the potential problem is: after finishing Jon 68 (numbers from 0, like in the forum's table of contents) the reader may see the title of Bran's chapter. I don't know how ASOIAF books look like in Germany (apart from that there is a lot of them I heard, isn't it? :D), but here in Poland there is no blank space between the chapters (before AFFC, at least), if a chapter ends halfway through the page, the next starts at the same page. If you have more "proper" chapters, then it depends on if this particular chapter ends on an even page or not, but nonetheless, a reader may turn the page from a habit.

The question is, is this a real problem, because most likely this information would be forgotten soon. However, I'm not sure. It is really close to the end of the book, and if then 3/4 through it a reader encounters their deaths and starts to think "No, no, no, it can't be this plot ended like this before it even developed, no, not that early", it may hit them "Ah yes, it didn't, I think I saw it at the end of the book".
And even if no, there is another thing with Arya. When Jon chapters are being read and she's already "dead", then definitely no one will miss that they will have finished Jon 64 or 73 and they'll see Arya chapters after them. Not really a problem here on the other hand, because you dragged the waiting for her impossibly long anyway :D But if in ADWD there is a fake death or similar stuff, then, provided you hadn't been aware of this "meta-problem" already, maybe there are some more problematic things than this one.

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But of course, if once someone else wants you schedules too, this one definitely needs rescheduling - and in that day it would also require a bit more of thinking, because simple sticking it to her ASOS chapters is not good either - it'd mean that Vargo chopped off Jaime's hand before we see him in Harrenhal and I think that even before we know he's on Robb's side now. So some further changes would be needed there, but that's a discussion for the future, because maybe those parts that your mother has already read will not be used anymore and there's no purpose in finding Arya a better place




Ah! Didn't think about Vargo Hoat, you're right! But luckily Weasel Soup and Bolton's taking of Harrenhal ocurres in the Arya chapter before that, which takes place before Blackwater, so that can stay. My best solution would now be: Arya's last Clash and her first Storm chapters go in between Davos' and Catelyn's first Storm chapters. I can't fit more of her Storm chapters there because Jaime needs to pass the Inn of the Kneeling Man before Arya does end up there, which happens in her secound Storm chapter.




But if such a day comes, I think that from this whole schedule that is the one thing I'd definitely encourage you to review, the ending of ACOK. About 15 ACOK chapters and even some ASOS ones between Bran and Rickon's "death" and the reveal they're alive, while in the books those are the adjacent chapters? It's downward cruel!!! Do you try to be more sadistic than GRRM himself? :D




Yeah, I admit that this was a cruel move but I wanted the reactions to Bran's and Rickon's death (especially Catelyn's but also Tyrion's) to feel as genuine as possible without the reader knowing the truth. So the only way to do it was to put it after their respective chunks. (The other choice would have been all the Theon chapters in a row).





Well... apparently you do, because you did the same with Arya's "death"... xP)




That, on the contrary wasn't deliberate... Honestly, I never bought Arya's "death" when I was reading the book, so I didn't think of that chapter as a cliffhanger that had to be treated specially.





The case is one again about Bran's death. You put Jon at the beginning of ACOK after Dany, which is - story-wise - definitely the best choice after AGOT ended with Jon and Dany, respectively. However, the potential problem is: after finishing Jon 68 (numbers from 0, like in the forum's table of contents) the reader may see the title of Bran's chapter. I don't know how ASOIAF books look like in Germany (apart from that there is a lot of them I heard, isn't it? :D), but here in Poland there is no blank space between the chapters (before AFFC, at least), if a chapter ends halfway through the page, the next starts at the same page. If you have more "proper" chapters, then it depends on if this particular chapter ends on an even page or not, but nonetheless, a reader may turn the page from a habit.




I think this kind of "spoiler" is somewhat unavoidable and can ocurr in many ways, especially with my schedule (flipping through the book while searching for the right page, looking at the sheet where I wrote down which chapters to read next,...)



There are two German books for each English book, still less than in the French version (I think there are up to four there IIRC). And there is also no blank space after chapters in the German versions. I don't know if the cases you mentioned end on even or uneven pages but as I said, nothing comes to my mind that could one could do to prevent such a spoiler...



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  • 4 weeks later...

Now that the holidays came (hence, do you intend to publish your schedules, or are you waiting whether anyone voices interest?) I tried just to check whether my points can be applied all at once as a change to the schedule instead of just discussing every one back and forth, which would not be productive as some of them strongly affect the others. I think it can all be put together at relatively small cost (ignoring Tyrion's reaction to Bran's death).


Ah! Didn't think about Vargo Hoat, you're right! But luckily Weasel Soup and Bolton's taking of Harrenhal ocurres in the Arya chapter before that, which takes place before Blackwater, so that can stay. My best solution would now be: Arya's last Clash and her first Storm chapters go in between Davos' and Catelyn's first Storm chapters. I can't fit more of her Storm chapters there because Jaime needs to pass the Inn of the Kneeling Man before Arya does end up there, which happens in her secound Storm chapter.

I think sometimes the simplest solution is the better, let us just make the last Arya's chapter the standalone one. It's a very good ending chapter to the storyline, and it and ASOS-Arya 1 have almost no common content - only the trio of characters and virtually nothing more. Arya 1 and Arya 2+ are much more one entirety. It's just the logical cut that GRRM made himself by establishing a long break between Arya 9 and 10 and the "book break" between Arya 10 and 1, let's not change it.

Yeah, I admit that this was a cruel move but I wanted the reactions to Bran's and Rickon's death (especially Catelyn's but also Tyrion's) to feel as genuine as possible without the reader knowing the truth. So the only way to do it was to put it after their respective chunks. (The other choice would have been all the Theon chapters in a row).

Well, here there's this problem with Tyrion, as I've mentioned. But his reaction isn't really something priceless, it's basically "Oh, they're dead? It's a rather sad thing, I would say, let's get around to the more urgent matters." When we have Catelyn's reaction at hand, I don't think seeing this necessarily before we know the truth is of any importance, one can read it post factum, like Arya's reaction is being read post factum.
As to Catelyn, she can't be in one piece anyway, her 1st chapter is before Theon's plot. I don't know if you overlooked that, or your Theon entry implicitly contained this one, but anyway Catelyn can be logically divided 1; 2-7 or 1-6; 7. The second cut lets solve the Bran problem with grace.

That, on the contrary wasn't deliberate... Honestly, I never bought Arya's "death" when I was reading the book, so I didn't think of that chapter as a cliffhanger that had to be treated specially.

Well, I... can tell... I never "bought" it, meaning I though "of course it's bullshit, let's flip thorough the book till I see Arya's title" :D However, if one follows your schedule and does not want to look ahead... I saw several accounts of people who claim they throw their book and broke it in the halfs after Arya's chapter, not Catelyn's, so it seems it has a really strong impact on some and certainly some believe it ;) Also, nothing really gained by moving it to AFFC territory because, like before, really no connection between the two plots apart from the central character.

I think this kind of "spoiler" is somewhat unavoidable and can ocurr in many ways, especially with my schedule (flipping through the book while searching for the right page, looking at the sheet where I wrote down which chapters to read next,...)

There are two German books for each English book, still less than in the French version (I think there are up to four there IIRC). And there is also no blank space after chapters in the German versions. I don't know if the cases you mentioned end on even or uneven pages but as I said, nothing comes to my mind that could one could do to prevent such a spoiler...

I probably had French version in my mind, then :D OK, if you have the names of chapters written, probably it's worse, for some reason I thought just the number of pages were in it, seems like I made it up ;) Still, if a reader does not look too much ahead, it can pass, when Bran is after a long line of KL plot. Also it's the last chapter, so not too much of a danger here concerning flipping through the book to the right page. So I see a good probability it can be avoided, the only thing is to move Jon somewhere later.

For example, to his first ASOS chapters. It can be done nicely if the Wall plot follows ACOK directly, we end with Bran and proceed with this plot. So, the central question is why Dany and Wall are in the middle of the book? I assume it's to set all three climaxes apart? I'd be curious what your mother though about it, but I'd be really angry if after such a twist as RW my schedule made me read somewhat like 200-250 pages of sideplots. Really, such an event and... not a single chapter of people who hear about it, are affected with it, react to it? I think I'd hate such a decision, I wonder whether the actual reader appreciated it or no. And GRRM made PW following RW closely, and I think it's how it should be (it's not the Wall wich happened parallelly to the other climaxes, so you had to move it this way or another, so putting it after a break was definitely a great idea). In the original version there are 5 chapters between them, I propose how to put 4. It has an additional advantage that the reader will not forget who Oberyn is before he becomes important, while in your schedule his introduction was half a book apart from any action involving him.

- Dany ACOK

- first half of Bran ACOK (only if we don't mind metaspoilers)

- whole Jon ACOK (only if we don't mind metaspoilers)

- Arya all but the last one

- Prologue + first Davos

- KL until Sansa II

- Catelyn all but the last one

- Theon until Stony Shore

- first half of Bran ACOK (if we care about metaspoilers)

- Winterfell until Bran's "escape", Catelyn 7, Theon 5

- Davos at SE

- KL rest of ACOK

- Arya 10

- Rest of ACOK Bran/Theon

ASOS continues the same plot

- Sam, Jon and Bran of ASOS until Jon is back at CB:

- - Bran 1-2

- - Jon ACOK (if we care about metaspoilers)

- - Prologue, Jon 1-4

- - Sam

- - Bran 3, Jon 5-6

- Whole Dany ASOS

- first half of Davos ASOS

- first three Catelyn of ASOS

probably I miss some reason that you are aware of, but why are those plots so shred, why not

- first three Jaime - first 6 of KL (KL 4-8 in your version)

- first 6 of ASOS - KL - whole Jaime until he leaves HH

- Arya until her capture - Arya until her capture, Catelyn and Arya up to RW

- Jaime until he leaves HH ---

- Catelyn and Arya up to RW ---

- Bran 4

- KL from 7 until PW

- Rest of Sansa ASOS

- Rest of Arya ASOS

- Rest of KL ASOS

- First two Cersei and first Jaime of AFFC

- First two Brienne

- Rest of Davos ASOS

- Epilogue ASOS (this is also one thing I noticed now and hadn't addressed before. It looks to me like you contradicted you own rule here, you made some hard decisions to make the reader feel like the characters who believe Bran&Rickon are dead, and now when all the characters react to Catelyn's and Robb's death, we also wouldn't like to have already known that one of them is alive, would we? When the reader is shocked and sad and angry, it doesn't serve to ease their pain before they can grieve with the other characters. So epilogue just after RW - I'm strongly against. Where to put it? Anywhere but not there :D, but I think this place is a good one. Once again, you can ask you mom, but I'd say that if from the whole ASOS only two storylines are being separated - Davos and the battle at the Wall - by itself it's a very strong spoiler that Stannis is going to save the day. Throwing anything in there should be enough to prevent the connotation being so obvious. If you don't like the idea, maybe Epilogue should go after "Rest of Arya ASOS" as it's the plot when we see Catelyn's body found by BwB).

- Battle at the Wall and aftermath (until Sam leaves)

(...)

PS. I've finished ADWD, thanks very much for the information about JC and YG, undoubtedly if I didn't read Tyrion's plot far enough to know these characters, I couldn't guess that such a case is to be considered while guessing whether KL stuff is safe to read at the given moment. BTW, this book seemed to be so disjoint at times that I wouldn't be too surprised if I followed your schedule for it quite precisely not even knowing how it goes :D

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  • 4 weeks later...

You could use the timeline. That way she can look up what happens where. It is stated per event in which chapter it takes place. There are still some errors to work out, but the order of events is mostly correct.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aj_uNZmcJaTddG9BVU5tRnJJTE5KcE5JRkFha1ZfNUE#gid=8

Does anyone know how to print this (including the citations, but not the rest of the columns) so it is not 133 pages long? It is really, really good. Bows down to the author.

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Can't you select to print only sheet 1? Or is only that sheet already 133 pages?

You answered! I was going to pm you today to ask for help. My husband tried to print it eliminating columns after H. The problem is that there is so much wasted space. You only get 3 or 4 entries per page with large spaces above and below the entries. I am planning to save the spreadsheet, then try to edit out the spaces.

Did you see the thread for a request for a timeline in general? I quoted your post that has the timeline in it there. I can't find it today. Must be buried on later pages.

Did you make the timeline? It is so helpful. Looks like I am going to have to make a GOT wall lol

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You answered! I was going to pm you today to ask for help. My husband tried to print it eliminating columns after H. The problem is that there is so much wasted space. You only get 3 or 4 entries per page with large spaces above and below the entries. I am planning to save the spreadsheet, then try to edit out the spaces.

Did you see the thread for a request for a timeline in general? I quoted your post that has the timeline in it there. I can't find it today. Must be buried on later pages.

Did you make the timeline? It is so helpful. Looks like I am going to have to make a GOT wall lol

I haven't seen that thread, perhaps you can link it?

I did not make the timeline myself, though it is now slightly less than a year since I have joined as an editor of the document.

Currently, there are two or three 'bigger' issues with the timeline, that need to be worked out and will require some altering of the order of events. We discuss them here:

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/84563-most-precise-asoiaf-timeline-in-existence/

As for the printing, I can't be of help with that until I get home tonight. I think it might be excels settings, but I'm not sure. Does it help when you change the option of the paper standing up, or being in landscape mode?

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You answered! I was going to pm you today to ask for help. My husband tried to print it eliminating columns after H. The problem is that there is so much wasted space. You only get 3 or 4 entries per page with large spaces above and below the entries. I am planning to save the spreadsheet, then try to edit out the spaces.

Did you see the thread for a request for a timeline in general? I quoted your post that has the timeline in it there. I can't find it today. Must be buried on later pages.

Did you make the timeline? It is so helpful. Looks like I am going to have to make a GOT wall lol

I tried with excel.. You can choose to print only the selected rows (chose rows A to H, row I only contains the occasional short note, and that's mostly either for the editors, or to tell that something isn't quite right yet). Put the paper on landscape (instead of one small long paper, you get a short, but wide, paper), and the rows will fit the page.

This way, it's still 118 pages though.. Not quite ideal for printing.. Perhaps you can print on both sides of the pages, bringing the total back to 59?

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I wanted to see what is the problem with the timeline and... well, I saw there is none. Likely it's some difference between Exel and LibreOffice or something, but my printable version (of the selected columns, I mean, like Rhaenys_Targaryen adviced) looks rather quite reasonably. If yours don't, you can use this one (ok, but how do I attach a file to the post here? xD I thought "manage attachments" is what I need, but looks I was wrong xD).


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sorry I let you waitt this long...

Well, here there's this problem with Tyrion, as I've mentioned. But his reaction isn't really something priceless, it's basically "Oh, they're dead? It's a rather sad thing, I would say, let's get around to the more urgent matters." When we have Catelyn's reaction at hand, I don't think seeing this necessarily before we know the truth is of any importance, one can read it post factum, like Arya's reaction is being read post factum.
As to Catelyn, she can't be in one piece anyway, her 1st chapter is before Theon's plot. I don't know if you overlooked that, or your Theon entry implicitly contained this one, but anyway Catelyn can be logically divided 1; 2-7 or 1-6; 7. The second cut lets solve the Bran problem with grace.

You're right, I forgot that Theon was still with Robb as of Catelyn I. That chapter woud have to be moved forward anyway. There would even be the possibility to put it after her last Game chapters, but it could also work as a standalone.

As for the Bran issue, I still think it works the way I originally intended it. I like the spirit of the last Winterfell chapters and for me they feel better after the Battle of Blackwater...


Well, I... can tell... I never "bought" it, meaning I though "of course it's bullshit, let's flip thorough the book till I see Arya's title" :D However, if one follows your schedule and does not want to look ahead... I saw several accounts of people who claim they throw their book and broke it in the halfs after Arya's chapter, not Catelyn's, so it seems it has a really strong impact on some and certainly some believe it ;) Also, nothing really gained by moving it to AFFC territory because, like before, really no connection between the two plots apart from the central character.

Oh sorry I thought we were talking about the "cliffhanger" at the end of AGOT. As for ASOS, I did put her second-to.last chapter directly after the Red Wedding. That chapter involves pulling Cat out of the river so that had to be placed before the epilogue. The problem with the last chapter was that Joffrey's death was spoiled so I put it after the big KL chunk. I then decided to put all Arya chapters of AFFC and ADWD together because her story is so separated from the rest.

- Epilogue ASOS (this is also one thing I noticed now and hadn't addressed before. It looks to me like you contradicted you own rule here, you made some hard decisions to make the reader feel like the characters who believe Bran&Rickon are dead, and now when all the characters react to Catelyn's and Robb's death, we also wouldn't like to have already known that one of them is alive, would we? When the reader is shocked and sad and angry, it doesn't serve to ease their pain before they can grieve with the other characters. So epilogue just after RW - I'm strongly against. Where to put it? Anywhere but not there :D, but I think this place is a good

You're kind of right here but frankly, I'm not a big fan of the LSH plotline (I don't like people coming back from the dead in general) so I wanted to get this issue done as fast as possible. Plus I couldn't resist the opportunity to put the Epilogue of ASOS directly before the Prologue of the same book.

probably I miss some reason that you are aware of, but why are those plots so shred, why not

- first 6 of KL (KL 4-8 in your version)

- whole Jaime until he leaves HH

- Arya until her capture, Catelyn and Arya up to RW

I had it this way at first but iirc Robb's marriage is talked about in the KL chapters. Then Sansa's marriage to Tyrion is mentioned in both Catelyn's and Jaime's chapters. Additionally Jaime passes the Inn of the Kneeling Man before Arya does, so I had to split the chapters the way I did.

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sorry I let you waitt this long...

Well, by now I think we can just assume your mother was a one-time recipient of the schedule and no-one else is interested, so apart from the AGOT issues the rest has become irrelevant unless you're still planning to "post it when I'm happy with it" anyway ;)

(edit: but leaving this sentence out of spoiler, if someone comes here after a year and wants a schedule, let them know how the things stand :D)

You're right, I forgot that Theon was still with Robb as of Catelyn I. That chapter woud have to be moved forward anyway. There would even be the possibility to put it after her last Game chapters, but it could also work as a standalone.

As for the Bran issue, I still think it works the way I originally intended it. I like the spirit of the last Winterfell chapters and for me they feel better after the Battle of Blackwater...

But that's exactly what I did, while also removing the other issues ;) It is after the Blackwater, the ACOK ends with Theon-Bran and ASOS starts with Bran.

Oh sorry I thought we were talking about the "cliffhanger" at the end of AGOT. As for ASOS, I did put her second-to.last chapter directly after the Red Wedding. That chapter involves pulling Cat out of the river so that had to be placed before the epilogue. The problem with the last chapter was that Joffrey's death was spoiled so I put it after the big KL chunk. I then decided to put all Arya chapters of AFFC and ADWD together because her story is so separated from the rest.

OK, if "up to RW" contains one chapter after it, then it's even the other way round, I thought you stretch the cliffhanger while in truth you remove the cliffhanger completely :D Still I see no gain in attaching her last chapter to AFFC territory, no connection between the two.

You're kind of right here but frankly, I'm not a big fan of the LSH plotline (I don't like people coming back from the dead in general) so I wanted to get this issue done as fast as possible.

Wow, I sometimes thought I'm the only one to think so, with all those people crying the round year they'd probably cut LSH from the show and ASOS epilogue just yesterday making top 20 in the game :D Nice to hear it :)

Anyway, I don't think this schedule should whitewash GRRM in such ways. If there is this long break for the reader before the Epilogue when we can mourn for Cat (well, and I think if we have to deal with a resurrection, it's still better to have this time to mourn before it anyway), if there is this long (but not infinitely long as I see now :D) cliffhanger for Arya, I think they should stay more or less this same way in the schedule, even if we would best prefer to just cross out the Epilogue completely xD

I had it this way at first but iirc Robb's marriage is talked about in the KL chapters. Then Sansa's marriage to Tyrion is mentioned in both Catelyn's and Jaime's chapters. Additionally Jaime passes the Inn of the Kneeling Man before Arya does, so I had to split the chapters the way I did.

I'm aware of these points, I still don't see why would Jaime have to be cut into two halves, ditto Arya.

"- first three Catelyn of ASOS / Robb's marriage

- first 6 of KL (KL 4-8 in your version) / learn about Robb's marriage / Sansa's wedding

- whole Jaime until he leaves HH / Inn of the Kneeling Man 1 / learn about Sansa's wedding

- Arya until her capture, Catelyn and Arya up to RW" /Inn of the Kneeling Man 2 / learn about Sansa's wedding

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I'm aware of these points, I still don't see why would Jaime have to be cut into two halves, ditto Arya.



"- first three Catelyn of ASOS / Robb's marriage


- first 6 of KL (KL 4-8 in your version) / learn about Robb's marriage / Sansa's wedding


- whole Jaime until he leaves HH / Inn of the Kneeling Man 1 / learn about Sansa's wedding


- Arya until her capture, Catelyn and Arya up to RW" /Inn of the Kneeling Man 2 / learn about Sansa's wedding




It would work this way but there's still Ser Robin Ryger who is seen in Jaime I and who comes back to Riverrun before Catelyn II. I know he's only a minor character but still...








OK, if "up to RW" contains one chapter after it, then it's even the other way round, I thought you stretch the cliffhanger while in truth you remove the cliffhanger completely :D Still I see no gain in attaching her last chapter to AFFC territory, no connection between the two.




Wow, I sometimes thought I'm the only one to think so, with all those people crying the round year they'd probably cut LSH from the show and ASOS epilogue just yesterday making top 20 in the game :D Nice to hear it :)



Anyway, I don't think this schedule should whitewash GRRM in such ways. If there is this long break for the reader before the Epilogue when we can mourn for Cat (well, and I think if we have to deal with a resurrection, it's still better to have this time to mourn before it anyway), if there is this long (but not infinitely long as I see now :D) cliffhanger for Arya, I think they should stay more or less this same way in the schedule, even if we would best prefer to just cross out the Epilogue completely xD






You're right some time between RW and LSH reveal is probably the better solution I guess I just liked the "Epilgoue-before-Prologue"-idea a bit too much to let it drop. ;)


However I would at least group the last two Arya and the Epilogue together because the connection via Nymeria could be missed if there was too much in between. In my opinion the place where you put the Arya chapters works best. I know it would be nice if the Epilogue was the last thing we read of ASOS but in this case the Riverlands are out of focus at the end of the schedule. and I think it works better if we put an end to that storyline earlier.





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It would work this way but there's still Ser Robin Ryger who is seen in Jaime I and who comes back to Riverrun before Catelyn II. I know he's only a minor character but still...




Well, but your scattered schedule also has Catelyn II before Jaime I xD :P





You're right some time between RW and LSH reveal is probably the better solution I guess I just liked the "Epilgoue-before-Prologue"-idea a bit too much to let it drop. ;)

However I would at least group the last two Arya and the Epilogue together because the connection via Nymeria could be missed if there was too much in between. In my opinion the place where you put the Arya chapters works best. I know it would be nice if the Epilogue was the last thing we read of ASOS but in this case the Riverlands are out of focus at the end of the schedule. and I think it works better if we put an end to that storyline earlier.






Yeah, I didn't have the epilogue-just-before-prologue issues because I didn't like the idea of the bunch of sideplots after the Red Wedding in the first place ;) But one can still have a joy of prologue-just-before-last-chapter in AFFC, so one time may be enough ;)



Epilogue after Arya is indeed a nice idea, this way the whole Red Wedding recovery is done in one stroke. Of course, epilogue as the last thing to read would be a desirable thing, but Tyrion's chapter works quite fine as the last one. Or maybe even better, the last Sansa's chapter could be moved there and take over the role of the epilogue, it very much concludes the plot of all the first 3 books, more than the original epilogue ever did. (And also, if left when it originally was, it also has this nice feeling of "OK, Tywin's death made the last of the many climaxes we had here, now relax because we're just into the last concluding chapter. Oh well, no, one more death" :D Something like "the spirit of the last Winterfell chapters" after the climax of the Blackwater battle.)



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