The Most Uncomfortable Chair

[Sword of the Morgan]

Who will be seated on the Iron Throne by the end of WoW, and how will it come about?

I do not think Tommen or Myrcella will make it through the book, and I think that Aegon (legitimate or not) probably has the best chance to be on the throne heading into the ADoS.

[oramami]

I'm split.

No idea what will happen to Dany Targ. I've gotta be honest about that one though, I don't know what will happen to her because I don't like her at all, I'm not invested in her as a character, I just wish she'd go away. I don't feel she is bound by the same rules of the universe as the rest of the characters of a song of ice and fire. She is rewarded when she makes mistakes, her sense of justice is just shy of robespierre and I know stop signs that have more depth to them then she does. I think I'd rather watch sap drip down a tree then read another chapter of hers. Alas, I suffer them all the same. Having said all that though, I know that GRRM doesn't have the same view of her. When I try to weigh her value on the world of ice and fire in his eyes though - besides the dragons - I just don't see it. So, over the din of my animosity for her as a character, I can't really see where she's going.

I'm thinking Tommy will be, set to the side, one way or another.

Myrcella, I'm not really sure about her. I have no real gut instinct on her, I just have to go on my head with her. She'll die because Maggie the frog said she would. I have no reason to believe other wise. Clearly she'll be one of the subjects of dispute that finally drags Dorne into the War though.

I'm thinking that in the End it will be, (?F)Aegon wed to Shireen - Stannis will die of course, and Davos, seeing that Stannis' cause is lost and the only victory left for his cause will be throwing what's left of Stannis' host in with Aegon, will do so. It will be a Targaryaen restoration, wed to the previous Baratheon dynasty, which will on the one hand legitimize Robert's rebellion, and all of his arrangements before his death - and maybe some of Cersei's (?) and Tywins (?) and Kevans (?) on the other hand it will restore the principle of hereditary succession upon which the history of the seven kingdoms has shown to be the ONLY lasting regime that has brought about stability. I think that's the "bitter-sweet" end that we're looking at. To be honest though, I change my mind often. I've only read through the book once though, I'll read it again maybe at some point. I'll have my mind made up at some point soon.

- This leaves some good questions though. Will Jamie still be in the Kings Guard? He's proven cynical enough to get over the death's of one of his children... Maybe he could settle for this

- Jon Connington - I think this whole arrangement is contingent on Jon Connington seeing the thing through, although we'll be able to judge (F?)Aegon more objectively once we observe his preformance at StormsEnd

- The Crows Eye? - Well... he obviously makes for a fascinating character but his personality reveals that he's made for either victory or defeat via death. I don't see him accomodating himself to being a lord of pyke.

- Tyrion: A lot of people seem to think Tyrion will die. I'm not so sure about that. if I had to choose though, between Jamie and Tyrion though, I'd choose Jamie. Tyrion is definitely on a desperate, downward trajectory.

I'm definitely not as SURE of anything though, and my opinions constantly change.

Where do Jon Snow and Dany fit into this? Good question. I'm not seeing them make it.

[oramami]

How will he get there? I don't know. I think somebody might beat him to the punch.

I think part of Aegon potentially being fake is what will make the ending rankle in the nostrils of many readers.

- I don't believe there will be any absolute confirmation as to whether or not Aegon is fake though. I think that all of the evidence, and maybe a little more, will be left out for the reader to examine, and that it will be up to the judgement of the reader.

- another aspect of this dissapointment in it is that Aegon's personality is starting to bud, that whole, "Cool" vs "Beautiful" comparison that was made by Connington at his former seat being amoungst them. He will be clearly lacking in some of the qualities that makes for a king with a capital K, if you are catching my meaning.

Sorry for poor spelling.

[Lord of Nutella]

Varys says to kevan that aegon is real. Kevan is about to die. Why should varys lie?

How much more evidence do you like?

[oramami]

The absence of evidence is not in and of itself a form of evidence bro.

To make that more clear, just because we don't know of any reason that Varys should lie, doesn't mean that he didn't.

[oramami]

Although, that doesn't mean that he did either....

[Sword of the Morgan]

Varys says to kevan that aegon is real. Kevan is about to die. Why should varys lie?

How much more evidence do you like?

Never trust Varys. He might just be saying it in case someone is listening. Plus, there were two of his little birds present, right?

[Lord of Nutella]

Accepted. I still think aegon is who joncon thinks he is. There might be the possibility of a fake, but i dont see strobg evidence for that theory.

[Christian Walters]

I hope Aegon is a Targaryen because then there would be complications to the claim of the throne. There are so many people who has "claim" to the throne. Aegon, Stannis, Dany, Shireen, Tommen, Myrcella, Tyrion(if he decides that's what he wants but he probably is going for Casterly Rock) and a few others that happen to pop up in the narrative. I can't wait to see what GRRM decides to put on the Throne.

[CuriousEdd]

I think Quoburn is going to steer some of the witnesses and Margaery is going to loss her trial. Mace however isn't going to stand for it and is going to go stir the Faith Militant against him. This won't be good for him because much of Westros, including his own banner men worship the faith. This is where I think Vary's riddle about who has the power will really come to play; will they fight for the King or the Gods? This blunder will also be a key factor in Aegon's rise to power(I'm assuming he's real until proven otherwise), The Faith Militant has to serve someone. There're not going to go to Stannis obviously, nor Euron, so the most likely candidate is the only claimant who still stands by The Seven, Aegon. I also think he might play a role in clearing out the Ironmen in the Reach, I don't know how but I have a feeling that's going to win him a good deal of support. Not sure about Dany, there's dozens of possibilities, but a second Dance of Dragons seems inevitable and I defiantly think winter is going to hinder her Dragon's strength. Not sure how Martin is going to do it, but if I were in control, I would resolved the Dance and the WotFK by the end of WoW and focus on The Others and the long winter in the last book.

[Kyll.Ing.]

At the end of TWoW? I guess... Stannis. Or maybe Aegon. Or maybe somebody else.

At the end of the series as a whole? Well, given Martin's infatuations with ruined cities and stories of former grandeur, the Wildfire Plot still unfulfilled, as well as a need to bring the series full circle, I guess nobody. The Iron Throne won't survive the series. The artificial Targaryen construct that is the United Seven Kingdoms will fall apart when King's Landing burns down. The game of the Iron Throne will end, and Westeros will go back to being ruled as separate kingdoms.

The Iron Throne is the ulimate symbol of power, the most famous artifact of the franchise. The most sought-after object in the series. Symbolically, it needs to be destroyed for the series to come to a definite end. The ultimate question of the series, besides the one of the Others, is "who will get the Iron Throne in the end?" But the "end" people ask for won't be reached for as long as there is a throne to compete for.

Putting a specific character on the throne at the end, à la LOTR, wouldn't cut it in a series like this. Martin has shown that even the mightiest dynasties will fall apart. Great kings can be succeeded by mad kings. Great rebellions and revolutions won't bring eternal happiness and stability. If the series ends with a specific character sitting the throne, there will be a great question left unanswered: "For how long?" There could always be another rebellion down the line, infighting in the royal family, conspiracies among the court, or simply freak accidents. Heck, most Fantasy authors would have told Robert's story, and ended it when he overthrew the Mad King, married the most beautiful lady in the realm, coincidentally the daughter of the wealthiest lord, and ascended the throne. However, Martin starts his series at this point, where most others would have concluded with a happy ending. The Game of Thrones doesn't end - or even change, for that matter - whenever a king takes the crown. People with ambitions will hunt for power regardless. The series has so far spelled out in wonderful detail how lords and ladies play the Game to win the ultimate prize: the power to rule an entire continent. For Martin to make a definite end to his series, to tell the readers how the Game ends, the grand prize will have to be taken away. The Seven Kingdoms have to be split anew, so that the great power becomes unavailable to everybody, and the fighting for it ends once and for all. An eventual reunion of Westeros would be a different story altogether, unconnected to this one.

Besides, the Wildfire Plot needs to be resolved somehow. It's shown in ASoS that Wildfire becomes more volatile as time goes by, and Jaime later reveals a few of the hiding places for Aerys' caches of the stuff - and those don't coincide with the stashes that were found during Tyrion's time as Hand. It's evident that the pyromancers under Tyrion only found a fraction of what was hidden by their predecessors under Aerys. There are still tons of Wildfire buried under King's Landing.

So yeah: The series won't end with a specific character on the Iron Throne. That wouldn't be the end at all, merely a cut-off-point in the saga of the Game of the Iron Throne. I'd be deeply disappointed if Martin simply declared "...and that was the end of it all" after seven thousand pages of describing how power always changes. If we're to get any sort of resolve, the Game will have to end or change radically.

[oramami]

"Game" does not imply an ending.

[cassidyaj]

Varys says to kevan that aegon is real. Kevan is about to die. Why should varys lie?

How much more evidence do you like?

Totally agree!!! Why bother to tell a lie to a dying man?

[cassidyaj]

I think Jon will be like Maester Aemon and turn down the opportunity to rule. I think Dany will sit the throne with Tyrion as her hand.

[Amoracchius]

I think the Faith Militant will back (f)Aegon and will open the gates of KL for him and the Golden Company.

[Christian Walters]

At the end of TWoW? I guess... Stannis. Or maybe Aegon. Or maybe somebody else.

At the end of the series as a whole? Well, given Martin's infatuations with ruined cities and stories of former grandeur, the Wildfire Plot still unfulfilled, as well as a need to bring the series full circle, I guess nobody. The Iron Throne won't survive the series. The artificial Targaryen construct that is the United Seven Kingdoms will fall apart when King's Landing burns down. The game of the Iron Throne will end, and Westeros will go back to being ruled as separate kingdoms.

The Iron Throne is the ulimate symbol of power, the most famous artifact of the franchise. The most sought-after object in the series. Symbolically, it needs to be destroyed for the series to come to a definite end. The ultimate question of the series, besides the one of the Others, is "who will get the Iron Throne in the end?" But the "end" people ask for won't be reached for as long as there is a throne to compete for.

Putting a specific character on the throne at the end, à la LOTR, wouldn't cut it in a series like this. Martin has shown that even the mightiest dynasties will fall apart. Great kings can be succeeded by mad kings. Great rebellions and revolutions won't bring eternal happiness and stability. If the series ends with a specific character sitting the throne, there will be a great question left unanswered: "For how long?" There could always be another rebellion down the line, infighting in the royal family, conspiracies among the court, or simply freak accidents. Heck, most Fantasy authors would have told Robert's story, and ended it when he overthrew the Mad King, married the most beautiful lady in the realm, coincidentally the daughter of the wealthiest lord, and ascended the throne. However, Martin starts his series at this point, where most others would have concluded with a happy ending. The Game of Thrones doesn't end - or even change, for that matter - whenever a king takes the crown. People with ambitions will hunt for power regardless. The series has so far spelled out in wonderful detail how lords and ladies play the Game to win the ultimate prize: the power to rule an entire continent. For Martin to make a definite end to his series, to tell the readers how the Game ends, the grand prize will have to be taken away. The Seven Kingdoms have to be split anew, so that the great power becomes unavailable to everybody, and the fighting for it ends once and for all. An eventual reunion of Westeros would be a different story altogether, unconnected to this one.

Besides, the Wildfire Plot needs to be resolved somehow. It's shown in ASoS that Wildfire becomes more volatile as time goes by, and Jaime later reveals a few of the hiding places for Aerys' caches of the stuff - and those don't coincide with the stashes that were found during Tyrion's time as Hand. It's evident that the pyromancers under Tyrion only found a fraction of what was hidden by their predecessors under Aerys. There are still tons of Wildfire buried under King's Landing.

So yeah: The series won't end with a specific character on the Iron Throne. That wouldn't be the end at all, merely a cut-off-point in the saga of the Game of the Iron Throne. I'd be deeply disappointed if Martin simply declared "...and that was the end of it all" after seven thousand pages of describing how power always changes. If we're to get any sort of resolve, the Game will have to end or change radically.

I love this idea. I always wondered why people would think that the series would end with somebody sitting the Iron Throne. To me I would want to know what happens next. Rebellion? Eternal Happiness? I never settled for it but I never thought about an alternate end than somebody sitting on the Throne. I never thought about the Throne being destroyed or anything like that. Very awesome post.

[The Second To Last Dragon]

id like to see aegon and shireen sit the IT. they're the two most qualified candidates in terms of an optimistic outlook. i can see dany going back to essos to rule, IF she survives.

[Narvi]

I have a feeling there won't be an Iron Throne at the end of this series.

[oramami]

No IT. I can see that. As to no 7 kingdoms? I don't know... There are people on this forum who know this book better than me though...