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Nobody thinks the Others are pure evil, right?


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#1 Fool of a Took

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 09:07 PM

I know this has been discussed all over, but just curious to get some peoples' thoughts....does anyone out there think the Others are just the BIG BAD waiting at the end of the story for us? 

 

I for one think they're just another species, however dangerous and deadly they may be, that is just trying to survive. It's Darwinism, they are for all intensive purposes, the stronger species, higher up on the food chain. I do think that they're reason for invading is to survive and reproduce, much like all animals, however they are much smarter. I don't think they're the "Evil Genius" with a master plan to end the world. I can easily see a history revealed about them as perhaps being wronged by humans in the past. 

 

So, I end this post with a few questions and one final thought.....

 

1. Do you think they are just the prototypical evil 'bad guy'? 

 

2. What do you think they're reason or drive is?

 

3. Could it be in fact, that perhaps the religion of R'Hollor is the main evil and the Others are fighting against that?

 

As we all know, George likes to make most everything not a matter of black and white, but gray, which I believe is the case for the Others. I don't have any thoughts on if R'Hollor is evil or not, just thought I'd throw that out there, cause I'm sure it may garner some interesting responses and was just kinda writing whatever drivel popped up in my brain. And screw it I'll throw in one more question for the fun of it....

 

4. Who do you think Bloodraven is ultimately serving? And in turn if Bran will follow in his footsteps or rebel?



#2 WMarshal

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 09:09 PM

I have no idea, I don't even think they are out to attack Westeros, at least not in the way many think.



#3 Trickrs

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 09:12 PM

Yeah, I think there is something more.

 

For some guy claiming to avoid most fantasy tropes simply putting "THE OLD EVUH AWAKENS!!!!1" is lame as Lothar.



#4 RoamingRonin

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 09:16 PM

I think there's more to them than what we know but based on what we do know... they seem pretty evil. 



#5 Raksha 2014

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 09:19 PM

Their little habit of slaughtering people left and right, then zombifying some, if not all of them, does kind of make me think they're Evil.  Or at least devoid of empathy or compassion or tolerance; and thus either dangerous animals or enemies to be driven out or killed.  It's not like they were competing for the resources of the highly populated South, the North is a huge enough area that there was room for the Others, especially Beyond the Wall.  



#6 Fool of a Took

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 09:23 PM

Their little habit of slaughtering people left and right, then zombifying some, if not all of them, does kind of make me think they're Evil.  Or at least devoid of empathy or compassion or tolerance; and thus either dangerous animals or enemies to be driven out or killed.  It's not like they were competing for the resources of the highly populated South, the North is a huge enough area that there was room for the Others, especially Beyond the Wall.  

 

The only thing I would say against this is, that humans slaughter other "animals" left and right, eat them, wear them as clothing. There's not much different with the Others killing humans and using them to strengthen their chance at survival. I'm not saying that they are for sure not evil, just don't see GRRM having them be pure evil. 



#7 RoamingRonin

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 09:31 PM

What happens when the book reveals the Others reproduce by transforming babies? What about the prologue when we meet the Others for the first time and they slaughter Waymar Royce and laugh about it?

 

Serious question: What's the difference between evil and pure evil? 



#8 Lord Blazfemur

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 09:40 PM

I think they were slighted. Big time. By the Night's Watch. It all ties in, witht he construction of the wall (it IS made of ice, mind you), and the conspiracy with the Night's King, his Queen, and the fact that per Sam to Jon, ALL accounts before the 13th Lord Commander were wiped from Night's Watch's library. Why?

 

The Others, if you notice, all follow the Night's Watch Oath. THeyre nomadic (take no lands), they take Craster's children (so they dont father their own), and they only take the males, so they dont take a wife.

 

The Night's Watch arent good guys. Theyre rooted in corruption, im telling you. The Other's have a purpose. A reason.


Edited by Lord Blazfemur, 12 August 2014 - 09:42 PM.


#9 Fool of a Took

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 09:41 PM

I actually, didn't mean to differentiate that in my last sentence, I just mean I dont think GRRM will have them be evil without reason. Whereas they may be bad, from a human perspective, but perhaps there is a reason they are doing what theyre doing, other than just because. But again, to juxtapose your 'laughing' point. What about how humans hunt for fun? Not for resources, but for pure shits and giggles. I admit there are clearly a lot of unknowns on the whole White Walker/Human relations. Whether or not the whole Nights King is a myth or not (TV Show spoiler not permitting), i can see the Other's seeing humans purely as fodder, the same humans look at deer, or whatever animal you want to choose.But I however do believe in the Night's King myth, so I really don't know. 

 

 I guess I'm just trying to get across the point, that the Others are doing what they are doing for a good reason, just as how humans go to war with other humans for their own reasoning, the Others may be doing the same. 



#10 Lord Blazfemur

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 09:45 PM

I actually, didn't mean to differentiate that in my last sentence, I just mean I dont think GRRM will have them be evil without reason. Whereas they may be bad, from a human perspective, but perhaps there is a reason they are doing what theyre doing, other than just because. But again, to juxtapose your 'laughing' point. What about how humans hunt for fun? Not for resources, but for pure shits and giggles. I admit there are clearly a lot of unknowns on the whole White Walker/Human relations. Whether or not the whole Nights King is a myth or not (TV Show spoiler not permitting), i can see the Other's seeing humans purely as fodder, the same humans look at deer, or whatever animal you want to choose.But I however do believe in the Night's King myth, so I really don't know. 

 

 I guess I'm just trying to get across the point, that the Others are doing what they are doing for a good reason, just as how humans go to war with other humans for their own reasoning, the Others may be doing the same. 

 

They take Craster's children because it's a loophole. They arent breaking their vows, by taking a child. If they reproduce, they break the night's oath. By taking Craster's children, they technically arent reproducing, yet theyre still increasing their numbers.



#11 A Bastard Snow

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 09:50 PM

I dont know if they are evil.They might not do this out of malice but simply because it is impossible to understand how they think/feel.They might not even consider killing people wrong as they come back as wrights.



#12 Lord Blazfemur

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 09:54 PM

I dont know if they are evil.They might not do this out of malice but simply because it is impossible to understand how they think/feel.They might not even consider killing people wrong as they come back as wrights.

 

right now, it appears as though, they have one goal: to break through and get on the other side of the wall. You really think the iron throne holds any significance to beings with their powers and their magnitude?

 

on-the-spot crackpot theory:

 

Old Nan said the night's king was a stark. There must always be a stark in winterfell. furthermore, they should be buried there in it's crypts. winterfell, is abnormally warm for some reason, couldnt tell you why (though, i could crackpot all day that it's the night's queen absorbing the surrounding cold to keep herself alive, and thats why the warmer temperature). crackpot: The Night's King, was separated from his queen, she's imprisoned in winterfell's crypts, and he's trying to get to winterfell's crypts to be with her so they could rest in peace.

 

Now thats NEVER going to happen. But it's how i'd like to see it.


Edited by Lord Blazfemur, 12 August 2014 - 09:55 PM.


#13 Queen Ayras Lord Commander

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 10:00 PM

Their little habit of slaughtering people left and right, then zombifying some, if not all of them, does kind of make me think they're Evil.  Or at least devoid of empathy or compassion or tolerance; and thus either dangerous animals or enemies to be driven out or killed.  It's not like they were competing for the resources of the highly populated South, the North is a huge enough area that there was room for the Others, especially Beyond the Wall.  

 

This sounds like religion. Kill or convert your enemies. 



#14 ChillyPolly

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 10:01 PM

Rh'llor, the Great Other, the Drowned God, the Faceless God are all in cahoots; and their goal is the destruction of humanity.

#15 Lord Damian

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 10:03 PM

The Others are mysterious or are they just as simple as they look. Kill, convert and keep going until we are stopped. Do they have a "hive" mentality? or are they sophisticated "alien extra-terrestials" that have been hybernating? All we know is that some people sacrafice their male babies to them to get them to leave them alone so they must have some capability to carry on some negotiations, however what they want in the end is under question?



#16 ASongofNothing

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 06:38 AM

Read my thread 'The Others are heroes' it will show who they really are.

#17 I'm the Party Pooper

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 06:45 AM

Can someone make me a favour?

Please open a serious thread in which you deeply discuss and come to an agreement onto what is "evil", I mean what is the universal concept attached to this word.

When all moral theories will have been debated, when all different dominant perspectives spread around the world will be presented, and when we will have agreed on a definition to use here, the topic shall be settled up.

Then we can come back discussing whether or not White Walkers are evil.


Because the OP question has literally no meaning without this prerequisite.

And if you are making assumptions or sticking to your own definition of evil, you should put it clear black on white for us to use. Not that there would be much to discuss once done it.

#18 ChillyPolly

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 10:39 AM

When all moral theories will have been debated, when all different dominant perspectives spread around the world will be presented, and when we will have agreed on a definition to use here, the topic shall be settled up.

 

The mere fact that you demand UNIVERSAL agreement means that you are trying to stack the deck in favor of moral nihilism; and shut down all moral discussion on the basis of your own repellent philosophy.  Sorry but no.  Some things are wrong, and the fact that someone somewhere believes that rape and murder are okay does not make it so; any more than the disagreement of the 6 blind men proves the non-existence of the elephant.



#19 Mal Malenkirk

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 10:45 AM

They seem about as grey as Ramsay or Gregor.



#20 Fool of a Took

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 11:08 AM

 

The mere fact that you demand UNIVERSAL agreement means that you are trying to stack the deck in favor of moral nihilism; and shut down all moral discussion on the basis of your own repellent philosophy.  Sorry but no.  Some things are wrong, and the fact that someone somewhere believes that rape and murder are okay does not make it so; any more than the disagreement of the 6 blind men proves the non-existence of the elephant.

 

Completely agree, what a Rust Cohle-esque statement by that guy. Lighten up would ya, just trying to get peoples' opionions about the Others, not start a debate about worldview on morals, nor am I going to try the impossible to get everyone to agree with the definition of "evil"

 

You truly are "The Party Pooper"


Edited by Fool of a Took, 13 August 2014 - 11:09 AM.