Why are the Freys the MOST hated?

[fellow reader]

Well, the Freys have certainly not won any fans with their behaviour. When I look around in this forum, I read things like the Freys are worst scum ever and need to be completely eradicated, including the ones that did not participate in the Red Wedding and even the children simply for being Freys.

We can all agree that the Red Wedding was a foul act (and darwin-award-worthy because the Frey pies have likely just been the beginning), but the Freys have yet to gather the worst monsters available and send them to turn an entire region into hell on earth like Tywin, and they are still miles away from Ramsays notion of entertainment(perhaps except for Little Walder but someone has already taken care of that).

Although killing them as guests at a wedding is disgusting, Robb, Catelyn(indirectly) and their army have all been participants in the war, not some random people who just wanted to be left alone like the countless smallfolk who ended up in the Riverlands-horror-show. And concerning the treatment of the corpses, Robb and Catelyn have already been dead and have felt nothing of the desecration. Some of the victims of Rorge and his horde in Saltpans and especially those of Ramsays fun have not had that "luck".

So how can the Freys be the worst if such individuals like Tywins special pets(Gregor,Armory,Vargo and Co.), Rorge and Ramsay and his boys have graced or are still gracing Westeros with their presence?

I think that is only because their victim Robb was the fan favourite whom they wanted to win.

[aguy]

they broke guest right, which is one of the worst things to do. they killed thousands of innocent men, who layed down their arms at a WEDDING, killed their king, revolted from their liege lord, killed Catelyn, dumped her body in a river, decapitated Robb and sewed his direwolf's head onto him, and bragged about it. Now, they're saying he attacked first, making excuses.

Also, Walder Frey is an a**hole, and so is Black Walder

[Ser Frasier of House Crane]

Are you talking about in-universe or out? In-universe:

1. The Freys broke the most sacred rite of "guest right." The Lannisters and Boltons may have had a hand in it, but it was under the Freys' roof.

2. The Freys are notorious for being pretty uncouth, whereas the Lannisters have that veneer of respectability.

3. The Freys are nouveau riche, having just come into status under the last 600 years, whereas the Lannisters are an ancient House.

4. The Lannisters are the powers behind the throne that can sustain a mighty army. The Freys stay in their castle and more or less cling to the vicinity of the Twins, unless they are married into other houses.

5. The Freys are a generally unattractive bunch, whereas the Lannisters are (aside from Tyrion) Vogue models.

There's a lot of hate for the Lannisters, but few will be vocal about it, but if you're not in the Riverlands, you can badmouth the Freys all you want. They're the scapegoats.

[CharlesW]

I do agree that the idea of eradicating every last one is a bit extreme. I'll settle for death sentence for anyone who played a part in Red Wedding, exile for all remaining Freys, and dismantling the Noble House of Frey. The lands and assets should be divided and given to other lords, and more bridges should be raised over the Trident, so that no one can monopolize the crossing.

[fellow reader]

they broke guest right, which is one of the worst things to do. they killed thousands of innocent men, who layed down their arms at a WEDDING, killed their king, revolted from their liege lord, killed Catelyn, dumped her body in a river, decapitated Robb and sewed his direwolf's head onto him, and bragged about it. Now, they're saying he attacked first, making excuses.

Also, Walder Frey is an a**hole, and so is Black Walder

So you are telling me the Freys are worse than good valiant Ramsay, the B... trueborn son of Lord Roose Bolton , the dedicated flayer of living people, passionate hunter of females, selfless helper to clueless Theons hunting success, imaginative creator of Reek, caring husband of Lady Hornwood and Jeyne Poole...pardon Arya, heroic rescuer of Winterfell for and from the Ironborn...(did I forget an accomplishment?)?????

[Nozlym]

is this a real question?

[fellow reader]

Are you talking about in-universe or out? In-universe:

I was talking about what I have read in this forum, the opinion of the readers discussing about the books.

[Bryden Tully]

Walder Frey so far has

-Murdered his King (kingslaying)

-Imprisoned his liege lord (Treason)

-Massacred high lords (breaking guest right)

-Planned the entire affair (treason again)

Lord Frey is a man who isn't loyal, he didn't do anything in RR's, he openly says his oaths are a 'bunch of words' and he didn't help Edmrue when the Lannisters attacked.

I know you're going for the Hipster 'freys aren't that bad line' but yeah

[Ser Frasier of House Crane]

I was talking about what I have read in this forum, the opinion of the readers discussing about the books.

Well, out of universe, it's pretty much the same. It doesn't help that there are no redeeming factors to the Freys, whereas the Lannisters and the Boltons (well, Roose) have their supporters.

[Pod The Impaler]

Breaking guest right is indeed the worst crime there is or close to it (and I mean crime in the sense that it offends peoples' idea of right and wrong, not whether it was technically legally OKed by the iron throne).

However, why scorn the Freys more than the Boltons or Lannisters ?

I think the answer is complex, but basically it comes down to the fact that there are degress of evil but also degrees of disrespect. One can be an asshole, but it is worse to be treacherous and an asshole; one can be treacherous and an asshole, but it is worse to be cowardly, and treacherous, and an asshole.

I think in the case of the Freys, people consider them all three. Of course people think Tywin gave the order; only the most blind would be blind to that.

But the Freys are Tywin's backstabbing flunkies, without the courage to take on the Young Wolf in the open, and also now they insist on their farcical excuses (broken betrothal, Robb was a werewolf, etc.) as well as that the rest of the Riverlands must bow and scrape to them (the same Riverlands that suffered so much with what the Lannitsers did).

That being said, I do not think the Lannisters and Boltons are going to be getting off lightly. I just think it is funny that even the Lannisters and Boltons consider the Freys cannon fodder, and respect them even less than they did their Stark and Tully foes. They fear the Young Wolf, even the memory of him. They do not fear the Freys.

[fellow reader]

Walder Frey so far has

-Murdered his King (kingslaying)

-Imprisoned his liege lord (Treason)

-Massacred high lords (breaking guest right)

-Planned the entire affair (treason again)

Lord Frey is a man who isn't loyal, he didn't do anything in RR's, he openly says his oaths are a 'bunch of words' and he didn't help Edmrue when the Lannisters attacked.

I know you're going for the Hipster 'freys aren't that bad line' but yeah

What about Tywin then?

-doing nothing in Roberts rebellion until the outcome was absolutely certain, where is his loyalty?

-then treason against Aerys and the whole atrocity of the unnecessarily brutal sack of Kings Landing trough treasury, the city had opened the gates, he also gave the order to massacre royalty, oh and his son in the KINGSGUARD killed the king

-breaking the kings peace by sending the mountain in disguise to slaughter villagers

-attacking kings men under the banner of King Roberts stag at the Mummers Ford->treason again

-Riverlands-horror-show, even parts of the Crownlands which were loyal to Joffrey got ravaged

-also had a hand in the planning of the Red Wedding, just decided to officially distance himself to let the Freys take all the blame and consequences

Or much better Ramsay?

Good valiant Ramsay, the B... trueborn son of Lord Roose Bolton , the dedicated flayer of living people, passionate hunter of females, selfless helper to clueless Theons hunting success, imaginative creator of Reek, caring husband of Lady Hornwood and Jeyne Poole...pardon Arya, heroic rescuer of Winterfell for and from the Ironborn...(did I forget an accomplishment?)

I do not claim that the Freys are not awful. The guilty ones of them deserve a payback(Frey pies!), but they are not THE worst.

[Kevvy]

Same reason as stated above; guest right. All right, ramsays a nut who tortures people, and Tywin burnt the riverlands down - ones the act of a madman and the others an act of war. The Freys have opened the dam - guest right ensured safe conduct and some sort of fair play; your under my roof - be nice to me and I'll be nice to you. It's like the foundation of diplomacy in Westeros - you go to treat with someone and you can assume protection offered by guest right - now that's gone, thanks to the Freys, who'd feel safe going somewhere knowing you can be considered fair game?

I still disagree all Freys deserve blame; Roslyn, Olyvar, Perwyn and Alesander (whom everyone seems to forget) shouldn't be considered targets.

[Trickrs]

But people hate Ramsay a lot, lol. ETA: If you ignore the psychopaths who says he gave a proper punishment to Theon, I meant.

And I only like TV Tywin because of Charles Dance peformance.

[#Turncloak]

The Red Wedding.

And, they all despise each other and some even want to kill each other to inherit the Twins. Of course, there are houses that did even worse things, but the Freys are hated because they are traitors and have no respect for anything other than themselves.

[RockyRagnarok]

Boltons, Freys, Lannisters and Targaryens are all the worst of the worst IMO...

The Greyjoys and Starks have a lot of blood on their hands as well, everyone loves the Starks though lol, and the Iron Born have their own cult like following in some places...

[Pod The Impaler]

Or much better Ramsay?

Good valiant Ramsay, the B... trueborn son of Lord Roose Bolton , the dedicated flayer of living people, passionate hunter of females, selfless helper to clueless Theons hunting success, imaginative creator of Reek, caring husband of Lady Hornwood and Jeyne Poole...pardon Arya, heroic rescuer of Winterfell for and from the Ironborn...(did I forget an accomplishment?)

Well, that's the thing about the Boltons. Ramsay already has a bad enough reputation, but when he starts to brag about having sacked Winterfell and put their northern "allies" to the sword, his father Roose warns him to keep his mouth shut and keep blaming the Ironborn, because if the truth were known the Boltons' would be as despised in the North as the Freys in the South. Despised and very quickly put to death.

[Lord Damian]

It is sort of different. The Boltons are two people and the Freys are a huge family in which half or most of them conspired to the Red Wedding. the other members of their family who may have not directly participated in the event are beneficiaries through choice marriages that were part of the negotiations before the deed. It is kind of like "that is blood money" I dont want it but I will take it anyway. Or, heh, I was not part of the looting party in that store but hell yeh, I ll take those pants etc... The Frey family could all go down to the bottom of the Trident and make Westeros a better place.

[The Dragon King]

The Freys are scum.

Just about any other major House has taken the field to earn their status, the Freys have never done that, they've done nothing to actually earn respect and with the Red Wedding they're done everything to earn the utmost contempt.

[lyannaisalive]

Well in terms of most hated person the a Frey doesnt even top my list. That would go to Tywin, the mountain and etc. But as whole the Freys are the worst to me. We've even met some Lannisters that are likable, Devan, Genna even Jaime is quickly becoming one of my favorites. But the Freys we have dealt with have all been petty, no good assfu*ks who think they are entitled to prestige and respect. A 15 year old boy marries another woman ( sure he broke a marriage oath and they do deserve some apologies and compensation) but how do they respond, by not only butchering him and his mother under guest right but the other 2000 men with him. They run all over Westeros saying they were dishonored and blah blah blah. If they thought they were so dishonored and did what was justified, why the hell are they lying about what happened. Because they are a bunch of cowards who are worth nothing and are led by a man who is the pettiest man ever. I seriously hope every Frey man is killed (really cant blame the woman and children). Look in my signature Nymeria vs the Freys and you will see what will come of those assf*cks.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

As a House the Freys look pretty bad compared to everyone else in Westeros. The Lannisters can be pretty bad too but they're open about it, and they have enough money and power to justify it under the feudal system.

Walder himself has been a pain in the butt for decades before the story even begins. He doesn't join any fight until it's won so that he can guarantee being on the winning side. He should have been named Weasel Frey. He's got no one but himself to blame for Robb making Jeyne his queen. If Walder hadn't wanted to wait until after the war to marry into House Stark (for the obvious reason of backing out if they lost), Robb would have been safely wed and unable to do more than have a fling in the Westerlands, which he wouldn't have done once he was married. He broke his word, he broke guest right in perhaps the most heinous way possible, tricked and helped to imprison his overlord, who knows what atrocities were committed to the bodies of the dead.

Walder is definitely the worst of the bunch. But look at his children and grandchildren, hanging around waiting for him to die, naming their kids after him, sucking up trying to be named heir. He's playing every one of them and they put up with it. Black Walder isn't exactly a role model either, but at least he does something instead of just sitting around the Twins begging for crumbs from the old man.

I don't advocate the eradication of the entire house, and don't blame the innocent members (mostly the Rosby side). But really what other Westerosi House has sunk as low in this series?

Ramsay takes most horrible character, closely followed by Gregor, by the way. But that's in the individual evil category, not whole houses.