High Sparrow vs Dany

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

Daenerys has tuned her back on the Seven. And unless she accepts them there shall be religious war . And Dany and incest all of her known kin is dead .

[Clariana]

Dany's relationship with the Green Grace is pretty telling... She treats her as a respected expert adviser, which she is, on Mereen, and for her part GG plays that role well and makes no attempt whatsoever to convert Dany or to push religion to the fore. I can't see HS playing like that, at all and it could be pretty destructive for both of them.

Also it will be interesting to see the subsequent effect on Dany should the GG be actually be betraying her and should this come to Dany's notice... The fallout is likely to have a knock on effect on her future relationships and trust in any religious authorities.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Also it will be interesting to see the subsequent effect on Dany should the GG be actually be betraying her and should this come to Dany's notice... The fallout is likely to have a knock on effect on her future relationships and trust in any religious authorities.

Nah, she already experienced MMD as motherly female advisor, didn't keep her from trusting the Green Grace and Quaithe despite no reason at all. She has the habit of trusting those, probably due to her lack of a mother.

Of course the High Sparrow is no woman...

[Queen.Sansa.Lannister]

The HS will have thrown in with Aegon by the time Dany arrives, so he will oppose her no matter who she is.

[Steelborn]

So, has book 6 come out already so it's confirmed Aegon is fake?

[Fire Eater]

Of course he'll oppose her. She's a woman, she's a heathen, she's a slaver, she's a foreigner.

Nevertheless, Varys doesn't care one whiff for Dany, except as a tool to get Aegon on the throne. And Aegon will be the Faith's poster boy. He fits the image of the perfect Westerosi prince: Educated by a Septa, a (sort of) Maester, a knight and raised by a Lord. Martial, male, young, goodlooking. The Faith will love him.

The High Sparrow will have thrown in with Aegon by the time Dany lands. Then there's this stuff:

The propaganda won't do her any good.

The High Sparrow is only do his job so far and good for him. But once he signs up with Aegon... can't say I'll feel bad if/when Dany wants to wage war on all of them.

This. The HS is a misgoynist, and will oppose her because she is a woman with the backing of the Red Faith. Also, he will have thrown in with Aegon. Her news that Aegon is fake would make him look like a fool, and hurt his image as someone who speaks for the gods.

She thinks of herself as a follower of the Seven, but she is open to other religions. She believes in the power of the Great Stallion, but she also believes in the power of the gods of Ghis.

She wasn't anointed in the oils by the Faith, and I doubt if she has ever prayed in a sept in her life. She'll be backed by the Red Faith, and the HS won't forgive that.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I'm vaguely surprised that no one has yet mentioned the possibility that Dany will actually convert to the Red God's religion. She already elevates herself as a mother-savior figure, so the idea that this faction has a messiah figure and that they think it's her would, in theory, push the right ego buttons for her. She nominally claims to follow the Seven but we don't really have much evidence of her practicing it, thinking of its tenets, etc. She thinks about the Dothraki's rituals and afterlife far more, when she thinks of anything.

The High Septon would always have opposed her, just because she's 1. female and 2. Aegon is a male with a better claim (at face value) who also got there first. But I think circumstances may align that would make him even more antagonistic toward her.

And lest anyone scoff at what a red-meat populist cause like the High Septon's is capable of, just remember that horde of peasant-class nobodies who were able to kill Dreamfyre, Syrax and the the other dragons in and around the pit. GRRM specifically included a scene where a large-enough crowd was able to kill multiple dragons, including one that was several decades old. Makes you wonder why.

[OldGimletEye]

And lest anyone scoff at what a red-meat populist cause like the High Septon's is capable of, just remember that horde of peasant-class nobodies who were able to kill Dreamfyre, Syrax and the the other dragons in and around the pit. GRRM specifically included a scene where a large-enough crowd was able to kill multiple dragons, including one that was several decades old. Makes you wonder why.

If I recall correctly, wasn't even Aegon the Conqueror a little bit afraid of the faith?

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

If I recall correctly, wasn't even Aegon the Conqueror a little bit afraid of the faith?

Fear might be too strong a term, but I think it's safe to say he was respectful and aware of its authority, given that he made the effort to convert and took the step of dating his reign only to the time of his anointment in Oldtown. Someone without respect (or, perhaps, fear) wouldn't have bothered converting or kowtowing to tradition at all.

[OberynBlackfyre]

I think the High Sparrow will be at war long before Dany gets to KL........I think if/when Cersei is found guilty, she might make a run for it, and if she gets back to the West, she could really stir up some shit because she will have access to all the Lannister gold at Casterly. Not to mention, what if she does something desperate like join with Euron Crows Eye just to spite the Tyrells?

[Hodor's Dragon]

snip -> She already elevates herself as a mother-savior figure <- snip

When does this happen? I hear lots of people calling her Mhysa, but does Dany claim this herself?

[Dinosoares]

High sparrow is Howland Reed, only the High Septon can release a man of the watch from his vows, he knows about Jon's parents, he knows who Dany is, he gon' use that Faith Army!

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

High sparrow is Howland Reed, only the High Septon can release a man of the watch from his vows, he knows about Jon's parents, he knows who Dany is, he gon' use that Faith Army!

Because when I think of the tiny little crannogman who grew up in a swamp, I think of casting ... Jonathan Pryce.

Howland is not the High Septon. How this ever got started, I have no idea. It's easily one of the more bizarre theories I've seen on here, and that includes "Rhaegar is Mance."

[Bryanfury]

When does this happen? I hear lots of people calling her Mhysa, but does Dany claim this herself?

All kneel for Daenerys Stormborn, the Unburnt, Queen of Meereen, Queen of the Andals and the Rhoynar and the First Men, Khaleesi of Great Grass Sea, Breaker of Shackles, and Mother of Dragons.

Just to make this clear, this is said twice in the same chapter. She has Missandei announce this at the start and end of every court session. She literally is referring to herself as a savior of the people in Meereen and Slaver's Bay anytime she appears in an official capacity. Nevermind that she claims to be queen of over half the known world while actually only ruling a single city (poorly).

[Hodor's Dragon]

All kneel for Daenerys Stormborn, the Unburnt, Queen of Meereen, Queen of the Andals and the Rhoynar and the First Men, Khaleesi of Great Grass Sea, Breaker of Shackles, and Mother of Dragons.

Just to make this clear, this is said twice in the same chapter. She has Missandei announce this at the start and end of every court session. She literally is referring to herself as a savior of the people in Meereen and Slaver's Bay anytime she appears in an official capacity. Nevermind that she claims to be queen of over half the known world while actually only ruling a single city (poorly).

Interestingly enough, although we inhabit Dany's POV, we never see her instruct Missandei as to what to announce, so you're only assuming she does so.

Assuming she does, I don't think Breaker of Shackles is over the top for her to claim. She's broken a fair number of shackles, and she wants in a big way to give PR to her slave liberation campaign: when the slaves far outnumber their masters, PR alone can be enough to turn the tide. (See, perhaps, Volantis in AWOW.)

Granted, Mother of Dragons does use the word "Mother," but it's not "I'm your mother" mother, it's "mother of dragons" mother. It was the people themselves who began to call her plain mother. I've never seen her encourage that, although I think she likes it.

And you know, court sessions are a formal thing. To say she "elevates herself as a mother-saviour figure" based merely on her titles being announced at court is a bit over the top IMO, and not the way a neutral person would describe her. So why hate? Can't we all just get along?

[RoamingRonin]

When does this happen? I hear lots of people calling her Mhysa, but does Dany claim this herself?

Here:

"Mhysa, Mhysa, Mhysa, " until the whole pit seemed to tremble. Dany let the sound wash over her. I am not your mother, she might have shouted, back, I am the mother of your slaves, of every boy who ever died upon these sands whilst you gorged on honeyed locusts. Behind her, Reznak leaned in to whisper in her ear, "Magnificence, hear how they love you!"

No, she knew, they love their mortal art. When the cheers began to ebb, she allowed to herself to sit. Their box was in the shade, but her head was pounding. "Jhiqui," she called, "sweet water, if you would. My throat is very dry."

It's the only instance I can recall where she refers to herself as mother to the slaves.

All kneel for Daenerys Stormborn, the Unburnt, Queen of Meereen, Queen of the Andals and the Rhoynar and the First Men, Khaleesi of Great Grass Sea, Breaker of Shackles, and Mother of Dragons.

Just to make this clear, this is said twice in the same chapter. She has Missandei announce this at the start and end of every court session. She literally is referring to herself as a savior of the people in Meereen and Slaver's Bay anytime she appears in an official capacity.

No, she's "literally" not.

Missandei is her herald. She's doing what heralds do.

You can complain about her Westerosi titles but her other titles are actually things she's accomplished. It's not arrogance like you and others are insinuating.

[Bryanfury]

No, she's "literally" not.

Missandei is her herald. She's doing what heralds do.

You can complain about her Westerosi titles but her other titles are actually things she's accomplished. It's not arrogance like you and others are insinuating.

The herald is saying what she's fucking told to say by her owner.

Her other 'titles' being things she's accomplished does NOT mean that these 'titles' aren't referring to herself as a savior. To the contrary, that's exactly what Breaker of Chains means. She saved people by breaking their chains. And didn't call it "arrogance". I stated a fact that she has her herald recite 7 titles twice a court session with one of those titles referring to the self-declared savior status someone else suggested.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

High sparrow is Howland Reed, only the High Septon can release a man of the watch from his vows, he knows about Jon's parents, he knows who Dany is, he gon' use that Faith Army!

No he can't. Nobody can. That counts triple for a guy like Jon, who swore his oath before a heart tree.

[Hodor's Dragon]

The herald is saying what she's fucking told to say by her owner.

Which book did you read that in? I haven't seen it.

I doubt its accuracy, because Missandei doesn't have an owner.

[PatrickStormborn]

She wasn't anointed in the oils by the Faith, and I doubt if she has ever prayed in a sept in her life. She'll be backed by the Red Faith, and the HS won't forgive that.

The Faith does not appear to have much - if any - support or following outside of Westeros, so of course Daenerys has not been anointed. Only the High Septon has the power to do that, and Dany is yet to land in Westeros.

But I'm not sure what relevance this has. I agree that the High Sparrow will oppose her. But it is not true to argue that she is not a follower of the Faith; the text shows her praying to the Seven.

I'm vaguely surprised that no one has yet mentioned the possibility that Dany will actually convert to the Red God's religion. She already elevates herself as a mother-savior figure, so the idea that this faction has a messiah figure and that they think it's her would, in theory, push the right ego buttons for her. She nominally claims to follow the Seven but we don't really have much evidence of her practicing it, thinking of its tenets, etc. She thinks about the Dothraki's rituals and afterlife far more, when she thinks of anything.

It would make absolutely no sense for Dany to convert to the Red God's religion... She's about to lead a khalasar with tens of thousands of followers, why risk alienating them? The followers of R'hllor already believe she is their messiah without her converting to their religion. She doesn't need to do that.

There's a reason Dany has been presented in the narrative as so open-minded towards different religions. I would imagine that is not going to change for political motivations. In contrast, I'd argue that she's going to continue with her open attitude towards religion because of the diversity of her followers.

And I agree, it's important that GRRM wrote a scene where dragons were killed by peasants. It demonstrates the power of crowds and the vulnerability of imprisoned dragons. Perhaps it was lucky after all that Quentyn freed Dany's dragons, and it's even luckier that Dany had her epiphany out in the Dothraki Sea and reunited with Drogon... I can't imagine her ever allowing them to be imprisoned again.