The Riverlands Web

[UtherSnow]

As frightened as she was, Sansa did appear to listen to Sandor. You can argue that she was a 'captive audience'. He's got all those stories from his time travelling with Arya. Those would be welcome with Sansa, I'd say. As much as Arya teased Sansa, they are sisters after all. They won't melt her heart. They could warm her towards Sandor (.....not towards The Hound though).

I like the idea of his transformation from 'Hound' to 'Wolf'. If indeed Sandor is the gravedigger.... He'd struggle if he felt The Hound was starting to call once more. A Wolf would remind him of Sansa and Arya.

The Mountain question depends on when any Trial by Battle occurs. I'd remain open on that because it's a hard road to travel for Sandor to return to KL.

[Neumond]

We will see where Nymeria is heading. I think the north would be a fitting place for her. While Sansa could very well never return north. (I always interpreted Ladys demise this way.)

Everyone was always eager to point out how northern and starkish Arya is.

But there are theories about Arya being Batman and ultimately this could lead to her being destined for Harrenhal (The Whents sigil was several bats).

But I tend to think Sansa is headed for Harrenhall.

Perhaps we should write LF into the list above. While he is currently in the vale, he is Lord of Harrenhal isn`t he?

Probably Harrenhal itself is worth a mentioning, too. It is not a person but it seems (at least storywise) to be the most interesting place in the riverlands.

It is the place were a certain tourney was held, that eventually kicked of the story due to Lyannas kidnapping/elopement. And perhaps

the starks are somewhat jinxed by Harrenhal. The only living Whent descendants are the Stark children and Sweet Robin. And neither seems to be very lucky. Funnily not even Lord Frey was able to produce children with a Whent, this can`t be a coincidence can it?

Perhaps the curse could be broken somehow. Dragons seem to have spelled the curse perhaps they also could lift it...

The surrounding area can`t sustain the castle, but if someone was to burn KL, rebuilding Harrenhal could be a way to get a new kingly/queenly capital.

[LongRider]

The Riverlands has some interesting places in it too: The Twins, Saltpans, Maidenpool, Harrenhal, High Heart and Riverrun. And most interesting, the God's Eye with it's Isle of Faces, and just across the neck, Greywater Watch.

So, the Riverland Web has lots of places with history, curses, magic, battles, sanctuary and mysteries associated with it. It's not just the people there, but the land as well. In addition to the folks mentioned in the OP, we might see the Ghost of High Heart again, and what about the crannogmen? Are they hiding the BF? Are they looking for Arya and Sansa too? Will they get caught up in the Riverland Web?

Hmmmmm....?

[LongRider]

I for one am not convinced that Sandor has yet left the QI. I know some think that Brienne cannot lie and so she didn't lie to Jamie when she said (paraphrasing) "The Hound has Sansa and say's he'll kill her."

What Brienne said to Jamie was a complete fabrication to get him to LSH and the BWB. And why not, she'd had the shit beat out of her, her face partially eaten by Biter, put on trial and hung. All of that would change one's attitude I would suspect. So, would she lie to save Pod and Ser Hugh (is that who was with her?) I say after all that, yes. Plus the Hound Helm is with the BWB.

When Sandor leaves the QI, I hope GRRM takes us there for his leaving. Who's POV will that scene be in I wonder?

[Booknerd2]

I for one am not convinced that Sandor has yet left the QI. I know some think that Brienne cannot lie and so she didn't lie to Jamie when she said (paraphrasing) "The Hound has Sansa and say's he'll kill her."

What Brienne said to Jamie was a complete fabrication to get him to LSH and the BWB. And why not, she'd had the shit beat out of her, her face partially eaten by Biter, put on trial and hung. All of that would change one's attitude I would suspect. So, would she lie to save Pod and Ser Hugh (is that who was with her?) I say after all that, yes. Plus the Hound Helm is with the BWB.

When Sandor leaves the QI, I hope GRRM takes us there for his leaving. Who's POV will that scene be in I wonder?

Love the first post. That should be done too. I kept adding and messing with the OP yesterday as stuff occurred to me. But yeah, it can always be edited. A list of places for quick reference would be good too.

I'm going to add more people too. I just had to get that OP statement going first yesterday.

And that's the thing too. Brienne just went through hell. How does she balance Pod, Ser Hugh, Jaime, LS, BWB? She is still trying to find the girls too.

And she was about to burst a blood vessel trying to tell Gendry who his father is. We know how hung up she was on Renly, so I am not sure she is going to let that go.

Even if she feels it is a sort of "do-over" or somehow it is her duty to look after Gendry for Renly, help him, or whatever.

We can't gauge why it is so important for her exactly, that he knows.

Has she thought of what the consequences are, good or bad, for this boy, or people around them to know this. That is what I struggle with too. I'm not sure she exactly thought it through. She is at Step 1: tell him. Not sure she thought of Step 2 yet.

[LongRider]

The OP doesn't need to include everything! LOL! That's what discussion is for. :cheers:

[Booknerd2]

The OP doesn't need to include everything! LOL! That's what discussion is for. :cheers:

Couldn't help myself. LOL!

Actually, I am pretty proud of my Stranger and Nymeria profiles. I tried to write them straight/serious, but they became funny, yet truthful. :laugh:

[XxLittleBirdxX]

I for one am not convinced that Sandor has yet left the QI. I know some think that Brienne cannot lie and so she didn't lie to Jamie when she said (paraphrasing) "The Hound has Sansa and say's he'll kill her."

What Brienne said to Jamie was a complete fabrication to get him to LSH and the BWB. And why not, she'd had the shit beat out of her, her face partially eaten by Biter, put on trial and hung. All of that would change one's attitude I would suspect. So, would she lie to save Pod and Ser Hugh (is that who was with her?) I say after all that, yes. Plus the Hound Helm is with the BWB.

When Sandor leaves the QI, I hope GRRM takes us there for his leaving. Who's POV will that scene be in I wonder?

Sorry I'm late to this thread, I think all of these are interesting, but let me start by saying - I've never thought of this in particular. Although I do agree that I think it's silly for some people to think that Brienne couldn't lie to Jaime.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

Couldn't help myself. LOL!

Actually, I am pretty proud of my Stranger and Nymeria profiles. I tried to write them straight/serious, but they became funny, yet truthful. :laugh:

LOL

~goes back to post one to reread the Stranger and Nymeria profiles~

With a little luck, I'll have a nice chunk of time for that and more, later in the day.

[Booknerd2]

LOL

~goes back to post one to reread the Stranger and Nymeria profiles~

With a little luck, I'll have a nice chunk of time for that and more, later in the day.

Me too.

Trying to get some stuff done now so I can get the brain going later.

Stranger and Big Nyms…it never gets old. lol.

[Hrafntýr]

Great opening post, booknerd2, I love your character profiles! (I'm actually a secret admirer :blushing: of yours, after discovering your Arya/Gendry analyses in Rethinking Romance...speaking of which, your OP forgot to mention the Bull Helm!!)

Thinking about the "web": it might also be pertinent that the Blackfish has deep ties to the Vale, current location of Sansa/Alayne.

Pod is also an important node in this network: Current squire to Ser My Lady Brienne; former squire to Tyrion Lannister, the husband to Sansa; of unknown relation to Ilyn, who was last seen serving as Jaime's therapist.

[Wizz-The-Smith]

Harwin - is currently with LS and the BWB, seemingly translating the mumbled speech of Uncat for Brienne. This after placing the sword Oathkeeper in front of her.

AGOT - Harwin has been in the story from the very beginning. -He was with the party that found the Direwolves in Bran l AGOT. -He then followed Ned and his entourage to KL - Took part in The Tourney of the Hand, loosing to Meryn Trant of the KG - Was sent with Beric Dondarrion and party to arrest the Mountain.

ACOK - Bran thinks of the people lost to the doomed trip south with his Father, Harwin is one that he remembers.

ASOS - Meets Arya again when she joins BWB - Reveals that only 6 of 20 guardsman from Winterfell remain, but they are scattered - Only one able to catch Arya when she flees on horseback, this leads to a conversation where he likens Arya to Lyanna - Involved in BWB engagement with the Brave Companions - Comforts Arya after she hears the Ned + Ashara story form Edric Dayne. He confirms the rumour but claims it is irrelevant.

AFFC - '' A young Northman wearing a greasy sheepskin jerkin '' is seen by Brienne placing the sword and translating for LS as she is brought before BWB.

Harwin's father is Hullen, the master of horse at Winterfell. This led to Harwin leading Arya around on her pony in her youth, playing Quintain with Jon and Rob and was known for drinking too much on feast days. He was not far off in age to Jon + Rob it seems. It may be my Stark loyalty kicking in but I hope Harwin has a decent part to play in any BWB / Riverlands / North storyline arcs.

[Chebyshov]

Sorry I'm late to this thread, I think all of these are interesting, but let me start by saying - I've never thought of this in particular. Although I do agree that I think it's silly for some people to think that Brienne couldn't lie to Jaime.

Agreed. Brienne is very honorable, but I think given that her lie could save others' lives, she'd be able to do it fine. In fact, it'd be oddly similar to a lie that Ayra told about Big Nyms (best part of this thread), which Ned noted was "not without honor."

[Dya of Oldstones]

Not sure if we should include The Vale or not, since it looks like another storyline in and of itself, but I see some of the Riverlands POV's moving that direction anyway.

I do have a crackpot to add to my favorite Vale crackpot theory...that one of LF's hedge knights is Elder Brother from Quiet Isle. I posted on the Gravedigger thread, that with the war going on, QI will not stay quiet for very long and possibly be pulled into the conflict one way or another. That would be a good reason for EB to want to investigate, since he would be able to blend in a lot easier than Sandor would. Like I said, this is speculation/crackpot, but I still thought I would throw that out there.

[Minstral]

I for one am not convinced that Sandor has yet left the QI. I know some think that Brienne cannot lie and so she didn't lie to Jamie when she said (paraphrasing) "The Hound has Sansa and say's he'll kill her."

What Brienne said to Jamie was a complete fabrication to get him to LSH and the BWB. And why not, she'd had the shit beat out of her, her face partially eaten by Biter, put on trial and hung. All of that would change one's attitude I would suspect. So, would she lie to save Pod and Ser Hugh (is that who was with her?) I say after all that, yes. Plus the Hound Helm is with the BWB.

When Sandor leaves the QI, I hope GRRM takes us there for his leaving. Who's POV will that scene be in I wonder?

Agreed. Brienne is very honorable, but I think given that her lie could save others' lives, she'd be able to do it fine. In fact, it'd be oddly similar to a lie that Ayra told about Big Nyms (best part of this thread), which Ned noted was "not without honor."

The way that GRRM sets this up is seemingly to subvert the supposedly incorruptible nature of "heroes" (Brienne) that once changed the viewpoint of the "bad guy" (Jaime). Jaime looked at his life and saw that he didn't like what he had seen/done when nudged by Brienne, but at the same time Jaime was also telling her that honor and oaths cannot be maintained and sometimes will/must be sullied. It seems to me that the two characters will be occupying reversed roles to the ones they occupied when they first met in terms of their morality (Jaime acting more idealistic and Brienne more disillusioned to chivalry).

[Dya of Oldstones]

I'm going to have to look more closely at Brienne's story arc. I kept thinking how clueless she was going through the Riverlands looking for Sansa, and having such tunnel vision that she missed some important things that would have made things easier for her. It also brings to mind of how as much as she hates Stannis, but in her own way she can be just as stubborn and rigid as he is.

Of course, there's also her relationship with Jamie and how everything will play out there.

[Minstral]

I'm going to have to look more closely at Brienne's story arc. I kept thinking how clueless she was going through the Riverlands looking for Sansa, and having such tunnel vision that she missed some important things that would have made things easier for her. It also brings to mind of how as much as she hates Stannis, but in her own way she can be just as stubborn and rigid as he is.

Of course, there's also her relationship with Jamie and how everything will play out there.

What?

[Dya of Oldstones]

What?

Sorry if I went too far OT. She did start out with a fairly rigid and stubborn attitude toward ideas of chivalry that I thought mirrored how rigid Stannis was about justice, and still blames him for Renly's death. I don't see them crossing paths any time soon, but I see him as a catalyst for her growth arc, and he was the best example I could come up with that matched her for stubbornness.

ETA: She's a fascinating POV for me, and I find things about her that remind me of others such as Sansa as well.

[Minstral]

Sorry if I went too far OT. She did start out with a fairly rigid and stubborn attitude toward ideas of chivalry that I thought mirrored how rigid Stannis was about justice, and still blames him for Renly's death. I don't see them crossing paths any time soon, but I see him as a catalyst for her growth arc, and he was the best example I could come up with that matched her for stubbornness.

ETA: She's a fascinating POV for me, and I find things about her that remind me of others such as Sansa as well.

Never mind, I actually read Stannis as Sansa. so the fault is mine. Nothing wrong with you're post.

[Dya of Oldstones]

Never mind, I actually read Stannis as Sansa. so the fault is mine. Nothing wrong with you're post.

It's all good. She has a tendency to remind me and even other POV's of other characters in the story. Wasn't it Jaime who called her The Hound with teats? :laugh: