The Fall of the Wall

[DanStark]

So it's my belief that the Wall is going to going to be destroyed late in WoW, and the Others will march on Westeros. I believe that the Others have/will find, the Horn of Joramun and will use it to bring the Wall down. (Perhaps it'll be wight Benjen to blow it). There's been so much made of the horn during Mance's march on the Wall for it not to have any significant impact on the series. Like why even mention that there is this Horn that could bring down the Wall if it won't be used. Like obviously we need an attack by the Others and they can't get through the Wall because of the magic woven into it, so it has to fall. Old Nan once told Bran that the Wall will stand whilst the men who guard it remain true to their vows (paraphrasing). Well the men of the NIght's Watch have killed One Lord Commander (Mormont) and have at least attempted to kill another in Jon, even though he was the one actually abiding by the duties of the Wall to protect against the Others not the Wildlings.

Now besides the obvious implications from the collapse of the Wall on Westeros, it will also have a big impact on our characters. Jon (should he be alive) and Sam will now be free of their vows. This leaves Jon to be one of the heads of the dragons, team up with Dany and defeat the Others. Perhaps then it'll be unveiled that he is Targ and also Robbs letter declaring him a Stark. Dany will allow Jon to become King of Westeros as the rightful heir, but Jon will just become King in the North and have an alliance with Dany, or perhaps have joint rule now that there is no Wall. Sam will also be free to marry Gilly, but he might just choose to become Jons maester

[Tol]

Only the fabled horn of Joramun can bring down the wall.

Three horns have been found in the books:

-the horn found amongst the dragonglass by Ghost which if I remember corretly is cracked or broken,

-the massive horn found in the grave of a giant by Mance which was destroyed by the fire,

-and lastly the hell horn found by Euron Greyjoy in or near the smoking sea called Dragonbinder.

If Tormund Giantsbane told it true, the massive horn Mance found is not the Horn of Joramun. It's likely the horn Ghost found which is probably why it was broken, to prevent it from ever being used. But Sam has it now and Sam is at the Citadel. Also at the Citadel are Jaqen H'ghar disguised as Pate and Sarella prentending to be Alleras. I believe that if there is anyone who wants to destroy the wall, it's the Faceless Men. And if there is anyway to repair a magic broken horn, it's a glass candle.

Remember Jaqen was on his way to the Night's Watch. If someone wanted to sabotage the Wall, being sent as a prisoner is an inconspicuous way to get there. It might explain why he was in a black cell, as FM are supposed to avoid even being noticed let alone caught. The only way for the FM to give the gift of death to everyone is to assist the Others, hence sabotage the wall, maybe even try and kill the dragons too. The key is to learn how and the horn is now at the Citadel too.

Arya met Sam in Braavos, I bet her tutelage at the House of Black and White will eventually lead to her to cross paths with Jaqen again and maybe team up with Sam and Alleras to stop him as Alleras must already be alert to Pate's change of character.

[A Bastard Snow]

Considering Old Nan's stories so far have 100% accuracy I think the Betrayal at the Wall might be what "breaks" the Wall.I dont think it will shatter or anything simply that the magic seal (Seems to be a blood seal) will either break or weaken enough for the Others/Wrights to start to be able to get past the wall (perhaps in small numbers) but they wont be able to turn anyone into Wrights beyond the Wall until the seal is gone completely

[ColdhandsIsEinhorn]

I don't see how one faction of black brothers could doom the whole watch, or all of westeros for that matter.

I think the only way to construe the phrase "as long as the nights watch stays true" is relative to the threat being discussed, as in as long as they don't start inviting the Others through or as long as they don't as an institutional policy change sides and join the Others then they meet the criteria of staying true. I can't imagine that individuals or groups within the nights watch can have such a dramatic impact by simply catching their LC when he's not looking, and its even less likely if its a large faction who believe what they're doing actually IS staying true to their vows and has nothing at all to do with the Others.

I do agree that it makes far more sense for the "fall" of the wall to simply be the Others/wights gaining the ability to pass. Maybe the horn lifts the seal or the seal and everyone has just misunderstood, but even if the horn does nothing or doesnt exist at all i don't see any reason to think that the wall has to actually collapse in order for it to cease to be a barrier to the enemy

[ColdhandsIsEinhorn]

I also completely disagree that the faceless men want to give the gift to all humanity by unleashing the others. Why would they do this? They give the gift to those who request it or on behalf of those who pay something significant.

I'm not going to pretend to have any idea what they're up to, but its likely to be on someone else's behalf. I do think its interesting that j'haqen was headed to the wall initially, but I'm not about to jump to any conclusions. Whatever they're doing, its far more likely to be related to Dany or and her dragons on behalf of the city of bravos or something like that than some elaborate final solution for all humankind

[ValyrianCode]

I agree with much has been said thus far in the topic of how the Wall will fall. One question I have had for some time is why the heck do you build a massive Wall and then follow it up by creating an artifact capable of its destruction? As a follow up: Why would the horn be found north of the Wall to begin with? Personally I'd hide it in Dorne. Who originally had/made the horn?

My guess, I believe it to be a "fail safe" if something happens to balance power (wall as DMZ?) My suggestion is predicated on the notion some truce, peace, vow, or promise was made and in the event of it being broken the power of the wall can be neutralized. it lets the Others in. Break a truce, promise, or some vow some vow and the fail safe can be activated.... As long as the men of the nights watch hold true...

I'd love to hear some speciation on this and how it relates to the OP.

[Narvi]

The horn is to wake giants from the earth not to bring down the wall. I believe the horn would wake up all those sleeping greenseers with bran. Another use might be to turn the giants that we have now into the raving monsters they were back in the Age of Heroes. Then again maybe it's just called supper. I'm thinking the wall has everything to do with the weird seasons. It must come down restore balance.

[Black Crow]

Blood built it. Blood stopped the building of it. And Blood will bring it down. Black will be its fall.

Janet Clouston

[LynnS]

Only the fabled horn of Joramun can bring down the wall.

Three horns have been found in the books:

-the horn found amongst the dragonglass by Ghost which if I remember corretly is cracked or broken,

-the massive horn found in the grave of a giant by Mance which was destroyed by the fire,

-and lastly the hell horn found by Euron Greyjoy in or near the smoking sea called Dragonbinder.

If Tormund Giantsbane told it true, the massive horn Mance found is not the Horn of Joramun. It's likely the horn Ghost found which is probably why it was broken, to prevent it from ever being used. But Sam has it now and Sam is at the Citadel. Also at the Citadel are Jaqen H'ghar disguised as Pate and Sarella prentending to be Alleras. I believe that if there is anyone who wants to destroy the wall, it's the Faceless Men. And if there is anyway to repair a magic broken horn, it's a glass candle.

Remember Jaqen was on his way to the Night's Watch. If someone wanted to sabotage the Wall, being sent as a prisoner is an inconspicuous way to get there. It might explain why he was in a black cell, as FM are supposed to avoid even being noticed let alone caught. The only way for the FM to give the gift of death to everyone is to assist the Others, hence sabotage the wall, maybe even try and kill the dragons too. The key is to learn how and the horn is now at the Citadel too.

Arya met Sam in Braavos, I bet her tutelage at the House of Black and White will eventually lead to her to cross paths with Jaqen again and maybe team up with Sam and Alleras to stop him as Alleras must already be alert to Pate's change of character.

Interesting! The Black Gate may have more to do with the kind of magic that the FM employ with their ghost faces hanging on a wall in the HoB&W. But I wonder if Jaqen's purpose was.to go to the Wall or recruit Arya. The FM was contracted to acquire a key from Pate and perhaps there is some arcane knowledge about the horn locked up somewhere. Perhaps Pate will assist Sam.

Sam has already crossed paths with Arya when he falls into the water in Braavos and is revived. What is dead can never die! It may not be only the horn that needs to be repaired (if it needs to be repaired at all); but who blows the horn.

I don't think the wall itself that has to fall; only the black gate.

[King Tyrion XX]

Considering Old Nan's stories so far have 100% accuracy I think the Betrayal at the Wall might be what "breaks" the Wall.I dont think it will shatter or anything simply that the magic seal (Seems to be a blood seal) will either break or weaken enough for the Others/Wrights to start to be able to get past the wall (perhaps in small numbers) but they wont be able to turn anyone into Wrights beyond the Wall until the seal is gone completely

Old Nan's stories are not 100% accurate. I don't know where this idea comes from.

[A Bastard Snow]

Old Nan's stories are not 100% accurate. I don't know where this idea comes from.

they have 100% been correct.

[King Tyrion XX]

they have 100% been correct.

Please demonstrate.

[Black Crow]

they have 100% been correct.

Some are true, but...

In Old Nan’s stories, giants were outsized men who lived in colossal castles, fought with huge swords, and walked about in boots a boy could hide in...

Wun Wun was very little like the giants in Old Nan’s tales, those huge savage creatures who mixed blood into their morning porridge and devoured whole bulls, hair and hide and horns.

Or then the Wildlings:

He [bran] remembered the hearth tales Old Nan told them. The wildlings were cruel men, she said, slavers and slayers and thieves. They consorted with giants and ghouls, stole girl children in the dead of night, and drank blood from polished horns. And their women lay with the Others in the Long Night to sire terrible half-human children.

“He was a wildling,” Bran said. “They carry off women and sell them to the Others.”

His lord father smiled. “Old Nan has been telling you stories again."

And what about the wargs - like the Starks:

Old Nan told scary stories of beastlings and shapechangers sometimes. In the stories they were always evil.

The Nightfort tales:

The Nightfort had figured in some of Old Nan’s scariest stories. It was here that Night’s King had reigned, before his name was wiped from the memory of man. This was where the Rat Cook had served the Andal king his prince-and-bacon pie, where the seventy-nine sentinels stood their watch, where brave young Danny Flint had been raped and murdered. This was the castle where King Sherrit had called down his curse on the Andals of old, where the ‘prentice boys had faced the thing that came in the night, where blind Symeon Star-Eyes had seen the hellhounds fighting. Mad Axe had once walked these yards and climbed these towers, butchering his brothers in the dark.

All that had happened hundreds and thousands of years ago, to be sure, and some maybe never happened at all.

[LynnS]

The Nightfort tales:

The Nightfort had figured in some of Old Nan’s scariest stories. It was here that Night’s King had reigned, before his name was wiped from the memory of man. This was where the Rat Cook had served the Andal king his prince-and-bacon pie, where the seventy-nine sentinels stood their watch, where brave young Danny Flint had been raped and murdered. This was the castle where King Sherrit had called down his curse on the Andals of old, where the ‘prentice boys had faced the thing that came in the night, where blind Symeon Star-Eyes had seen the hellhounds fighting. Mad Axe had once walked these yards and climbed these towers, butchering his brothers in the dark.

All that had happened hundreds and(or) thousands of years ago, to be sure, and some maybe never happened at all.

D'oh! These look like promising connector pieces.