Wow, I never noticed that v. 7

[Lost Melnibonean]

Bran II, Storm

So, is the overarching plot of A Song of Ice and Fire headed toward restoring a balance between ice and fire, where too much ice leads to a Long Night and too much fire leads to a doom like the Doom of Valyria?

The following text suppots that conclusion, no?

It is the great battle His Grace is speaking of, said a womans voice, rich with the accents of the east. Melisandre stood at the door in her red silks and shimmering satins, holding a covered silver dish in her hands. These little wars are no more than a scuffle of children before what is to come. The one whose name may not be spoken is marshaling his power, Davos Seaworth, a power fell and evil and strong beyond measure. Soon comes the cold, and the night that never ends. She placed the silver dish on the Painted Table. Unless true men find the courage to fight it. Men whose hearts are fire.

Stannis stared at the silver dish. She has shown it to me, Lord Davos. In the flames.

You saw it, sire? It was not like Stannis Baratheon to lie about such a thing.

With mine own eyes. After the battle, when I was lost to despair, the Lady Melisandre bid me gaze into the hearthfire. The chimney was drawing strongly, and bits of ash were rising from the fire. I stared at them, feeling half a fool, but she bid me look deeper, and . . . the ashes were white, rising in the updraft, yet all at once it seemed as if they were falling. Snow, I thought. Then the sparks in the air seemed to circle, to become a ring of torches, and I was looking through the fire down on some high hill in a forest. The cinders had become men in black behind the torches, and there were shapes moving through the snow. For all the heat of the fire, I felt a cold so terrible I shivered, and when I did the sight was gone, the fire but a fire once again. But what I saw was real, I'd stake my kingdom on it.

And have, said Melisandre.

The conviction in the kings voice frightened Davos to the core. A hill in a forest . . . shapes in the snow . . . I dont . . .

It means that the battle is begun, said Melisandre. The sand is running through the glass more quickly now, and mans hour on earth is almost done. We must act boldly, or all hope is lost. Westeros must unite beneath her one true king, the prince that was promised, Lord of Dragonstone and chosen of Rhllor.

Davos IV, Storm

[Lost Melnibonean]

They reached Oldstones after eight more days of steady rain, and made their camp upon the hill overlooking the Blue Fork, within a ruined stronghold of the ancient river kings. Its foundations remained amongst the weeds to show where the walls and keeps had stood, but the local smallfolk had long ago made off with most of the stones to raise their barns and septs and holdfasts. Yet in the center of what once would have been the castle's yard, a great carved sepulcher still rested, half hidden in waist-high brown grass amongst a stand of ash.

The lid of the sepulcher had been carved into a likeness of the man whose bones lay beneath, but the rain and the wind had done their work. The king had worn a beard, they could see, but otherwise his face was smooth and featureless, with only vague suggestions of a mouth, a nose, eyes, and the crown about the temples. His hands folded over the shaft of a stone warhammer that lay upon his chest. Once the warhammer would have been carved with runes that told its name and history, but all that the centuries had worn away. The stone itself was cracked and crumbling at the corners, discolored here and there by spreading white splotches of lichen, while wild roses crept up over the king's feet almost to his chest.

Catelyn V, Storm

Here's a compelling analysis by Frozenfire3...

I'm not sure if the following has already been brought up... Re-reading ASoS, I came accorss a passage with, IMHO, a very strong R+L=J allegoric subtext.

I don't know how I could have missed it the first time, considering my Classical education /dunce.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':dunce:' /> The bulb lit up reading a name, Tristifer, that in Latin means 'he who carries sadness'.

The scene takes place in Oldstones, at the presence of Robb, Cat and a... sepulcher where king Tristifer is buried.

I'll highlight a few words/passages and then add a few annotations.

Yet in the center of what once would have been the castle's yard, a great carved sepulcher still rested, half hidden in waist-high brown grass amongst a stand ofash. The lid of the sepulcher had been carved into a likeness of the man whose bones lay beneath, but the rain and the wind had done their work. The king had worn a beard, they could see, but otherwise his face was smooth and featurless, with only vague suggestions of a mouth, a nose, eyes, and the crownabout the temples. His hands folded over the shaft ofa stone warhammer that lay upon his chest. Once the warhammer would have been carved with runes that told its name and history, but all that the centuries had worn away. The stone itself was cracked and crumbling at the corners, discolored here and there by spreading white splotches of lichen, while wild roses crept up over the king's feet almost to his chest.

[...]

She had not forgotten; she had not wanted to look at it, yet there it was. "A Snow is not a Stark

[...]

Grey Wind leapt up atop King Tristifer's crypt, his teeth bared.

The first simplest metaphor is the one related to a story buried or better half-hidden... in a crypt.

Brown (Stark/Lyanna's hair colouring) grass spreads amongst ash (Targaryen/Rhaegar's one).

He who carries sadness (Rhaegar), rests with a stone warhammer upon his chest (Robert's).

Wild roses (Lyanna) creeps up over the king's feet almost to his chest (they touch his heart).

This tale immediately precedes Robb and Cat discussion about Jon's legitimization, including a few Targaryen's history references.

It takes place in Oldstones where Jenny came from. We know that she was friends with a woods witch (the Ghost of High Heart) who prophesied that The Prince That Was Promised would be born from the line of Aerys and Rhaella. We also know that Duncan Targaryen, son of Aegon V, gave up his crown for Jenny. A crown is visible on the sepulcher about the temples of a king whose features are undefinied. Ergo we do not know his face. Yet. But a direwolf stands atop like a fierce and proud sigil...

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/83666-rlj-v45/page-32

[Lost Melnibonean]

With Tristifer the Fifth died House Mudd, that had ruled the riverlands for a thousand years before the Andals came."

Catelyn V, Storm

RIVER KINGS

[short extract from an e-mail which is something of historical interest as far as the setting goes]

. . . the Mudds and Fishers were two dynasties of River Kings, who ruled the lands around the Trident in ancient times, but were destroyed in wars by the Storm Kings or Ironmen.

SSM, http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Category/C91/P240/

Ser Franklyn did the introductions. Some of the sellsword captains bore bastard names, as Flowers did: Rivers, Hill, Stone. Others claimed names that had once loomed large in the histories of the Seven Kingdoms; Griff counted two Strongs, three Peakes, a Mudd, a Mandrake, a Lothston, a pair of Coles. Not all were genuine, he knew. In the free companies, a man could call himself whatever he chose.

The Lost Lord, Dance

So there is a Mudd among the high officers of the Golden Company, and at least one more serves with him. What does it all add up to?

[gators019]

Jon Snow has 13 chapters in a Dance with Dragons. Coincidence?

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Catelyn V, Storm

SSM, http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Category/C91/P240/

The Lost Lord, Dance

So there is a Mudd among the high officers of the Golden Company, and at least one more serves with him. What does it all add up to?

That men in exile, who can choose their own name, like naming themselves after Kings of old, if possible.. ;)

[Jon Weirgaryen]

Catelyn V, Storm

SSM, http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Category/C91/P240/

The Lost Lord, Dance

So there is a Mudd among the high officers of the Golden Company, and at least one more serves with him. What does it all add up to?

That men in exile, who can choose their own name, like naming themselves after Kings of old, if possible.. ;)

Also another also likely possibility. Had peace and prosperity given the once more royal house Baratheon lots of heirs, the Baratheons of King's landing would have been the royal line, priviging Kings. Renly's* House Baratheon of Storm's End would never have been able to aspire the Iron Throne as long as House Baratheon of King's Landing had heirs, nor would Shireen's House Baratheon of Dragonstone. Given they prospered, there would be more Houses Baratheon sprouting everywhere.

Now back to the Mudd's - they did not lose the kingdom due to a lack of heirs, there were other Houses Mudd (of Newkeazles, you name it). but once the Kingdom was conquered by another House who killed all the Mudds of Oldstones, no one gave a dime for the Mudds of Newkeazles, so they were free to join the Blackfyres in their rebellion 9000 years later.

* what? Why not? There are gays with children, most definitely.

[RumHam]

It never occurred to me that Egg was like, 32 when Aemon told him to kill the boy and let the man be born.

[Lost Melnibonean]

It never occurred to me that Egg was like, 32 when Aemon told him to kill the boy and let the man be born.

I wish somebody had told me when I was 32...

[the marsh king]

Jon Snow has 13 chapters in a Dance with Dragons. Coincidence?

:shocked: The Night King ?

Its the only time the number 13 gets referenced in the books ( that i can remember ) he was the 13th lord Commander and he ruled for 13 years.

Good catch :bowdown:

[theriveryeti]

I wish somebody had told me when I was 32...

:agree:

[Lord Defiance]

Arya VI, Storm

Sandor was not present when Sansa stood before Robert. He was cutting down Mycah. And Sansa did not confirm Joffrey's account. She denied witnessing the incident...

Eddard III, Game

I'm thinking Joffrey told Sandor everything.

[Lost Melnibonean]

I'm thinking Joffrey told Sandor everything.

The truth was shameful for Joffrey. I doubt he would have told Sandor that he'd been beaten by a girl.

[Jon Weirgaryen]

I'm thinking Joffrey told Sandor everything.

Jack Gleeson might, Joffrey wouldn't.

[Lost Melnibonean]

She had them nailed to wooden posts around the plaza, each man pointing at the next. The anger was fierce and hot inside her when she gave the command; it made her feel like an avenging dragon. But later, when she passed the men dying on the posts, when she heard their moans and smelled their bowels and blood . . .

Dany put the glass aside, frowning. It was just. It was. I did it for the children.

Daenerys VI, Storm

The eunuch set the crossbow down. "Ser Kevan. Forgive me if you can. I bear you no ill will. This was not done from malice. It was for the realm. For the children."

Epilogue, Dance

[cocoalover1956]

Tommen loves kittens, who are felines, like the Lannister lion. Three cats, three Lannister bastards. I can't help but imagine it as a parallel to the Stark children's direwolves, expect thing is that he got housecats and they got actual wolves.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Tommen loves kittens, who are felines, like the Lannister lion. Three cats, three Lannister bastards. I can't help but imagine it as a parallel to the Stark children's direwolves, expect thing is that he got housecats and they got actual wolves.

And judging from the names of the kittens, two are males and one is female :) like the Lannister bastards.

[the marsh king]

Tommen loves kittens, who are felines, like the Lannister lion. Three cats, three Lannister bastards. I can't help but imagine it as a parallel to the Stark children's direwolves, expect thing is that he got housecats and they got actual wolves.

Good find never spotted that one :D

[cocoalover1956]

The way Will thinks of Waymar in the prologue foreshadows how Jon will be treated at Castle Black. Also wight!Waymar is still loose since the chapter cuts off at Will's death, and he was mentioned again in Sansa's Feast chapters since his family is now important to her storyline, so maybe we might see him again.

[Lost Melnibonean]

The way Will thinks of Waymar in the prologue foreshadows how Jon will be treated at Castle Black. Also wight!Waymar is still loose since the chapter cuts off at Will's death, and he was mentioned again in Sansa's Feast chapters since his family is now important to her storyline, so maybe we might see him again.

I disagree about the foreshadowing but I agree wholeheartedly that we haven't seen the last of brave Waymar.

[cocoalover1956]

I disagree about the foreshadowing but I agree wholeheartedly that we haven't seen the last of brave Waymar.

You disagree? Why? (Just out of curiosity)