Sansa's Bad Memory Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 I'm working off a busted iPad, so I can't get the link to work, but kmov.com reports that the police chief confirmed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awesome possum Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 So, is it the assertion that there was absolutely no physical contact between the two before shots rang out? At least two eyewitness accounts, from what I recall, say that Brown and Wilson did have some sort of physical contact with Wilson inside his vehicle and Brown outside of it, at which point the first shot was fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sansa's Bad Memory Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Also, I hope I don't get an abundance of hate mail for admitting this, but it was a police officer for 7 years before giving it up to move to Europe. Having said that, I want to say that someone mentioned that having a broken eye socket (or however it is said), the officer would be in terrible pain and couldn't walk around. Well, I was involved in an incident and my tibia was broken and lateral miniscus (sp) was partially torn. The bone was not a complete fracture, so I still had use of my leg. I didn't feel the pain until almost an hour later when my adrenaline was down. I finished my 12 hour shift then went to hospital. Pain can be overcome especially when there is an adrenaline rush. So, that probably isn't the strongest point against the officer. As for not calling an ambulance... I can't imagine that ever being the right thing to do. Protect life and property. That's the oath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awesome possum Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 broken eye socket If Wilson has a broken eye socket and the Ferguson PD didn't lead with this news as justification for use of deadly force, they're even more incompetent and terrible than they already appear. And they already appear very terrible and incompetent. That it is not widespread news leads me to believe it is a bunk story... and that's without reading the article that debunks the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Ayras Lord Commander Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Also just look at the video footage that's out there now. DW looked fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Walker Texas Ranger Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 This is what it looks like when a man fractures his orbital. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davos Posted August 20, 2014 Author Share Posted August 20, 2014 If Wilson has a broken eye socket and the Ferguson PD didn't lead with this news as justification for use of deadly force, they're even more incompetent and terrible than they already appear. And they already appear very terrible and incompetent. This.If the officer was injured by Mr. Brown, providing this information to the public very early on would have changed how the incident was perceived and could well have headed off much of the unrest. The fact that we have not seen official confirmation of an injury to DW to date makes any claims of such very dubious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Ayras Lord Commander Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 This.If the officer was injured by Mr. Brown, providing this information to the public very early on would have changed how the incident was perceived and could well have headed off much of the unrest. The fact that we have not seen official confirmation of an injury to DW to date makes any claims of such very dubious. :agree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Ayras Lord Commander Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Well it looks like Officer Go-Fuck-Yourself just got placed on unpaid leave. Sadly, the police chief said that pointing your gun into a crowd is standard procedure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturn Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Sorry for the long post. Catching up. In training all week and only one chance a day to post. The problem is issuing firearms to the officers in the first place. If we don't want officers to shoot people then officers should not be issued firearms. They should be issued non-lethal alternatives like, again, perhaps tasers. They aren't perfect but they are much less likely to kill the person they are used on than a firearm.I know there is something that is quite more affective at saving your life when someone tries to kill you, but no you gotta use this junk instead that leads to a better chance of the violent offender surviving while significantly reducing your odds. Good luck.Firearms should be reserved for Armed Response Units like in the UK. With the full understanding that if the ARUs are called and they have to shoot someone is likely to be killed. When US citizens are disarmed to the point of UK citizens, ask me again. Until then, apples to oranges. A longer range weapon which disables someone would be best. I'm all for that (I was beaten to my usual phaser response). Until it gets invented, my wife and daughter wants me to use the best tool for allowing me to come home each night if someone tries to kill or seriously harm me. 1. Get rid of guns entirely. Sounds great. Until that happens in a few decades (?), what do we do? Looks like you followed up with #2... 2. If you have a firearm, do your best not to go for the kill. Even if there's still a significant chance of death if you go for the arm or a leg, it's still not 100%. We've went over this already. Please read the prior threads. I shouldn't be firing a firearm if I'm not presented with lethal force since firearms are meant to kill, not incapacitate. Also, you are asking for the problem solvers to embrace a higher chance of mortality so the problem makers have a lower chance of mortality. I'm sorry if I don't think that is fair. It may be risky, yes, but so is using firearms to kill people in general. The guy who killed Brown used 6 shots. A couple shots would've sufficed to kill him. Pretty sure that's a big risk taken. You shoot until the threat stops coming (not commenting on what happened with Brown, I like almost everyone still doesn't know). Try researching knowledge bases such as Force Science Institute or go play some paintball. You often, naturally, keep pulling a couple more times even after the threat ends since it takes a bit for your stressed brain to tell you the threat is over and tell your finger to stop pulling. Here is an example of what I'm talking about. We've been using riot shields and batons for decades, not sure why we need to escalate further than that.... If you would rather be hit with a baton then hit with CS, then you haven't experienced both. I've been hit repeatedly with RUBBER batons at "1/2 speed" and hit with CS. I will take the CS over the 1/2 speed rubber baton strikes every time, let alone wood at full speed. Would you rather see people in the hospital from blunt trauma or just weeping at the side of the road as someone pours water in their eyes? (bad idea by the way unless it's OC). Unknowledgeable responses do none of us any good. This is almost as bad as the recent accusations of police preparing to use explosive grenade launchers and machine guns. Missouri should follow Georgia's lead (the country not the state) and fire the entire Feeguson and St Louis county police forces. let them reapply if they can demonstrate that they can respect the rights and dignity of the people they're supposed to protect and serve. How would that be fair to the majority of good police? Let's toss them all and hope the good ones aren't too pissed off to come back? Guilty until proven innocent? Even if you ignored the law suits and incredible unfairness of this because you would imagine it's for the greater good, it could actually have the opposite affect. Fire the bad cops. Try to replace them with good cops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivin Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 If Wilson has a broken eye socket and the Ferguson PD didn't lead with this news as justification for use of deadly force, they're even more incompetent and terrible than they already appear. And they already appear very terrible and incompetent. That it is not widespread news leads me to believe it is a bunk story... and that's without reading the article that debunks the story. Just throwing my 2 cents in the ring, I've actually had a blowout fracture, and not only was I rendered immediately unconscious, I couldn't walk straight for days because of horrible nausea every time I opened my eyes. Now, there are seven different bones in your orbit, so maybe this officer had different symptoms... But I doubt this story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Ayras Lord Commander Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Sturn, Do you have access to the private police forums? And if so, are they as viciously racist as the media describes them to be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Oop North Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Would they really be any more racist, depraved, sexist, or downright terrible than any other public forum on the internet? It's hard to imagine a private police forum really topping some of the comment sections of major news organization, unless the users of the private police forums are Hitler-Stalin hybrids created by the Ku Klux Klan of Apartheid South Africa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Ayras Lord Commander Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Would they really be any more racist, depraved, sexist, or downright terrible than any other public forum on the internet? It's hard to imagine a private police forum really topping some of the comment sections of major news organization, unless the users of the private police forums are Hitler-Stalin hybrids created by the Ku Klux Klan of Apartheid South Africa. LOL! You'd think the average cop would be held to a higher standard than the KKK..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Born Yesterday Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 If you would rather be hit with a baton then hit with CS, then you haven't experienced both. I've been hit repeatedly with RUBBER batons at "1/2 speed" and hit with CS. I will take the CS over the 1/2 speed rubber baton strikes every time, let alone wood at full speed. I have experienced both, too [rubber baton only, thankfully never held upside down*], and I respectfully disagree with your assessment. It depends very much on the circumstances. A few hits on the run, assuming nothing sensitive gets hit too hard, is manageable. Getting caught unprotected in a heavy cloud of CS, with no wind to disperse it and no room to run, can be a nightmare, and can most certainly lead to injuries. Older people and people with lung problems are especially susceptible to this. The worst is to be sprayed full in the face, though that's rare. [There's a special device of delivering tear gas, vaguely resembling what the exterminators of old used to spray insecticide. I'm not sure if you have that over there. It always makes an appearance in Athens, though standard canisters are way more common.] Conversely, getting beaten on the pavement, or on the floor of a police van, or against a wall, or against a car hood... yeah, that's never preferable from tear gas. Even a couple of hits at full force (is that what you meant by "full speed", I gather?) can ruin you. And it rarely stops at two hits. Maybe due to the brain not having time to inform the hand. Or maybe for other reasons. In any case, it's all very circumstantial. My advice to the protestors is "run, but don't leave anyone behind". My advice to riot police is "consider a change of career, you are literally getting paid for beating people who protest". My advice to standard police who find themselves doing riot police duty is "go on strike, you didn't sign up for this and you weren't trained for this". *Greek riot police are notorious for holding their rubber batons from the other end, so that they can hit people with the handle, which is made of metal. I hope that's a strictly local phenomenon. Don't get any ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Walker Texas Ranger Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 How would that be fair to the majority of good police? Let's toss them all and hope the good ones aren't too pissed off to come back? Guilty until proven innocent? Even if you ignored the law suits and incredible unfairness of this because you would imagine it's for the greater good, it could actually have the opposite affect. Fire the bad cops. Try to replace them with good cops. At this point, it doesn't look like the majority of those departments are good police. The entire structure and culture seems rotten to me, and even if it isn't, there is no way the people of that town will trust their police again for decades unless there is wholesale change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Iceman of the North Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Released video of the Kajime Powell shooting If this video doesn't establish the high credibility of the local police, I don't know what will. I don't understand why people have a hard time believing official police statements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solmyr Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Released video of the Kajime Powell shooting If this video doesn't establish the high credibility of the local police, I don't know what will. I don't understand why people have a hard time believing official police statements. /sarcasm But hey man, he was reportedly looting donuts! Justice was served. The alleged donut-shop owners in the neighbourhood can now sleep more easily. /sarcasm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew_ Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Sorry but where was the knife? The officers were saying drop the knife but I couldn't see it, also from the video its pretty clear that the officers could've used alternative measures eg pepper spray, stun gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howdyphillip Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Released video of the Kajime Powell shooting If this video doesn't establish the high credibility of the local police, I don't know what will. I don't understand why people have a hard time believing official police statements. So, it seems the discrepancies are that the distance the man was shot was around five or six feet instead of three and the attacker had his hands over his head. I just saw the video, and these are minor. The bottom line is the man was screaming "shoot me" to the cops while carrying a knife and then lunged for one of them. I hate that this happened, but this is completely a justifiable case of using lethal force. I would have done the exact same thing in that officers situation. Edited to comment that those for calling for the use of non lethal force to have been used in this circumstance are not understanding how lethal a knife is in the hands of someone attacking you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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