MerenthaClone Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Good to know that every tall, muscular person will now be treated as "armed". Except for those actually carrying rifles. As long as they're white. also: But I’d like to consider a different hypothetical scenario, the far more likely one where this was a good and justified shoot, a situation where an overpowered officer felt his life was in danger and felt compelled to act in self-defense. Bull. fucking. Shit. First of all, his "crushed face" isn't an exaggeration, its a complete and utter fabrication. Second, the "entire conflict took place in less than five seconds" is also a complete lie, as per the audio recording of Wilson's firing. Third, the entire system assumes the prosecutor will prosecute in good faith. That seems unlikely, given his history and the symbiotic relationship between elected prosecutors and police. That entire article is fucking condescending as shit and made me furious. Sturn, you should know better. That's a fucking disgusting article. Yes, we should be concerned with what will happen if there isn't a prosecution, but not for the reasons stated. "Some factual points over-exaggerated" my fucking ass. Who says "sorry Michael's family, we decided to let your kid be gunned down in the street?" Fucking nobody, because the entire apparatus turned and tried to find ways to justify it post-hoc. Be ready, Al Sharpton, to be a man of honor — instead of a promoter of your own media circus — and apologize to the officer for mischaracterizing his life and caring not one moment about his safety or his family or his profession. He says, regarding a man who killed someone 35 feet away (and don't give me that shit about the Tuller drill, it assumes an armed assailant and a holstered gun), as if we had any reason to care about his safety. He says, as if Michael Brown's family didn't have a memorial to their son's death pissed on by police dogs. As if their community wasn't teargassed in their own homes for wanting some evidence that the system would even attempt redress. As if his profession hadn't been involved with systematically abusing African Americans for generations. Be ready, activists, to work for justice in a real way. Be ready to rebuild the businesses destroyed amid your protests. Be ready to educate the young minds poisoned with misinformation. Be ready to teach history and learn from it. Be ready to say you were misguided, mistaken, and wrong. The system finding this a "good shoot" doesn't make it one. Kent State wasn't a "good shoot" because the charges were dismissed, and just because this may be ruled a "good shoot" doesn't mean that justice came close to being served. Be ready, all of you who call yourselves good citizens, some even friends of law officers, to say that your pronouncements and conclusions were uninformed and damaging. Promise that you learned to be truth seekers and truth tellers. Tell me you’ll study and vote more wisely and support as often as you criticize. Acknowledge that your hostility was misplaced and put officers at risk. These are the words of someone who believes the system works correctly. These are the words of someone who believes that because the system serves him, and that's not the case for many members of our society. The ones who are currently angry, and furious, and rightly so. Have you listened to the audio recording of the shots? They sound like someone on a range. You should be ashamed of yourself for linking this, Sturn, because its pretty fucking vile. There are good points to be made for "what if you're wrong" but this isn't one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyenon15 Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 So many things wrong with those articles I don't know where to start.The biggest problem I'm seeing with this side is that it's more of this thought that "hey, it's written down somewhere that we can shoot you so stop crying about it. We aren't breaking rules"Like as long as a court somewhere rules in favor of police 99% of the time then everybody needs to stop whining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyenon15 Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 And he's actually demanding a fucking apology if the public hypothetically makes a mistake about a police officer. Like when police rip your car or your house to shreds and they don't find anything, they don't hand out an apology of any sort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarl the climber Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Good to know that every tall, muscular person will now be treated as "armed". Except for those actually carrying rifles. As long as they're white. Hey in all fairness if you are a larger male you do need to take some care, since your larger than the other guys its more likely they will come after you with a weapon if you get involved in an altercation. I'm just speaking in general and not adressing any specific case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturn Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 You should be ashamed of yourself for linking this, Sturn, because its pretty fucking vile. There are good points to be made for "what if you're wrong" but this isn't one of them. Seriously? You found no good points in that article at all? It's all "vile"? Remember I've never claimed to know what really happened and have been on the fence and actually leaning to the cop-did-wrong side. I pointed out before I linked that I had problems with some of it. Some of it still makes a good point, regardless of the wrongful comments also included. MY eyes are open to both sides. There's just WAY too much of that here - If it doesn't agree with my anti-cop narrative it MUST be ALL wrong. Now actually let me read and see what it said so I can say why it is so wrong.... I almost said goodbye again to this board a few days after seeing more repeats of, "Fuck the police". I gave it another try. I was stupid. My entire point of endlessly debating in the police threads here was to attempt to combat all of the cop hatred out there since a friend of mine was killed by such hatred a few years back. So, I took it upon myself here to make an attempt to at least provide a police officer's point of view towards all of that hatred, some of it justified, much of it uneducated. I THINK a few I got through to. I'm thankful for them. It makes me think my time in the police threads wasn't a waste. But, for those I didn't get through to, I can see now that it is a pointless debate to continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerenthaClone Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Seriously? You found no good points in that article at all? It's all "vile"? Remember I've never claimed to know what really happened and have been on the fence and actually leaning to the cop-did-wrong side. I pointed out before I linked that I had problems with some of it. Some of it still makes a good point, regardless of the wrongful comments also included. MY eyes are open to both sides. Check your PMs, but what I'll say here is that calling a photoshop an "exaggeration" is misleading. Its not an exaggeration. Its a lie. Call it like it is. I don't think that the people of Ferguson need to apologize for being upset that one of their own was shot. I don't think that Al Sharpton needs to apologize for being upset. If the article had said that, hypothetically, some proof came out (say, an undiscovered video of the incident) that totally cleared Wilson, you'd be right to criticize the people that jumped on the "fuck the cops" bandwagon, myself included. But that's not what the article said. The article talked about what happens if the case is found to be justified. Those are different things. Consider that parts of the criminal justice system might not work, especially for some segments of the population. Then tell those same people, mad about that underservice, that they should apologize that the system again failed to address their complaints. You'd be right if Wilson is exonerated and the criminal justice system didn't have a long history of racism and pro-police bias. But it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerraPrime Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Good FAQ answers from a cop: http://www.policeone.com/ferguson/articles/7489476-Fergusons-6-top-use-of-force-questions-A-cops-response/ This is very one-sided. It failed to mention a few things: 1. the pause in the shooting according to the audio file. 6 shots fired, pause, then at least 4 more shots. I accept that the first 6 were fired in quick succession so Brown could have turned already but Wilson wouldn't have had time to react, etc. All reasonable. But the last 4 shots? 2. No aid was rendered to Brown after the shooting. He was left there to bleed to bleed out. 3. Absence of formal incident report. Wilson didn't write one, either for the Ferguson PD or for the SLPD. Not only that, but the Ferguson PD didn't admit to this till over a week later, and the SLPD only admitted to it under a law suit under Sunshine Law. 4. Assumption of guilt for Brown's alleged robbery. As far as I know, no charges were filed, and so for sure, no trials were held. Any suggestion that Brown might have felt guilty over the shoplifting event would be pure conjecture. You can find more here at this article: http://www.cracked.com/blog/7-wacky-farts-that-can-help-us-understand-ferguson-mo/ Some factual points over-exaggerated by the officer ("crushed face"), but overall brings up some good points IF the police officer is somehow exonnerated of any wrong-doing: http://www.policeone.com/ferguson/articles/7485551-Who-says-Sorry-Ferguson-if-force-was-justified/ This article is utter bullshit. It is as insulting as it is empty of facts. But then, the whole artile was built on thinly-veiled prejudicial "hypotheses." What a cheap rheotric trick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drkt Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Ok, here I go again, and I'll be surprised to see this actually post, but I agree with Sturn. I already gave up commenting in this forum, but now it's just irritating me. The end of last week, I tried to weigh in, and was met by TerraPrime, the board moderator. I started with what I considered the first valid point of this case, the struggle at the vehicle. Instead of being told I have a valid point(that I consider valid anyway) it was assumed that I was uninformed. I was told that officers being at risk is " a bullshit way of excusing police violence". I was told that I should be informed before join among a conversation. Again on the assumption I was uninformed. Then I was presented with facts that being a police officer wasn't as deadly as other jobs, only including deaths, not assaults or injuries. I said I doubt the accuracy of witness statements, ok Maithanet, here's a summary. One witness is recorded as saying the officer shot MB while in his car, and after he was on the ground. Background recordings on another revealed a witness stating that MB kept charging the officer, wich was quickly deleted. Then there was the other 3, one an accomplice, who claimed to be hiding behind a car, but still saw everything, and 2 others, that appear to me to have been going for their phone at the time of the actual shooting. That's just a summary. Not to mention, it's a known "F#*k the police" and " snitches get stitches" neighborhood. Then I basically get called a "troll" based on an article that attempts to invalidate any claim other that flat out racism and police brutality. Later, the moderator, TerraPrime, brings up a new development about a pause in shots, validated by " to make sure he was indeed black", not even considering it fits in with the officers account. People on here use words like "all" to refer to one bad egg. Being " middle of the fence" on this topic on this board is met with closed minds and cop haters. They are no different than the bad elements they look to discredit. I will continue to be a "troll" as I know more evidence will present itself when this goes to trial. The public need not know the specifics, but there will be "trolls"on both sides, even after all evidence is presented. The most irritating thing to me is that the moderator seems to be one sided himself. We that reserve judgement should not comment here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howdyphillip Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 Good FAQ answers from a cop: http://www.policeone.com/ferguson/articles/7489476-Fergusons-6-top-use-of-force-questions-A-cops-response/ Some factual points over-exaggerated by the officer ("crushed face"), but overall brings up some good points IF the police officer is somehow exonnerated of any wrong-doing: http://www.policeone.com/ferguson/articles/7485551-Who-says-Sorry-Ferguson-if-force-was-justified/ I really am sorry that you feel like you need to leave the boards. Your posting here has always been a highlight for me, even though we quite often disagree, As a lifelong gun owner and a member of the military that served in active war, I have to disagree that shooting a weapon multiple times is some sort of autonomic response though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drawkcabi Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 Seriously? You found no good points in that article at all? It's all "vile"? Remember I've never claimed to know what really happened and have been on the fence and actually leaning to the cop-did-wrong side. I pointed out before I linked that I had problems with some of it. Some of it still makes a good point, regardless of the wrongful comments also included. MY eyes are open to both sides. There's just WAY too much of that here - If it doesn't agree with my anti-cop narrative it MUST be ALL wrong. Now actually let me read and see what it said so I can say why it is so wrong.... I almost said goodbye again to this board a few days after seeing more repeats of, "Fuck the police". I gave it another try. I was stupid. My entire point of endlessly debating in the police threads here was to attempt to combat all of the cop hatred out there since a friend of mine was killed by such hatred a few years back. So, I took it upon myself here to make an attempt to at least provide a police officer's point of view towards all of that hatred, some of it justified, much of it uneducated. I THINK a few I got through to. I'm thankful for them. It makes me think my time in the police threads wasn't a waste. But, for those I didn't get through to, I can see now that it is a pointless debate to continue. Maybe instead of always trying to defend police actions you should actually ask yourself why the cop hatred is so fierce and unwavering, that maybe there's a reason it's that way, and that the best way to combat all of the cop hatred is to be a force for reform and not apologies and excuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YellowDogJen Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 Maybe instead of always trying to defend police actions you should actually ask yourself why the cop hatred is so fierce and unwavering, that maybe there's a reason it's that way, and that the best way to combat all of the cop hatred is to be a force for reform and not apologies and excuses. Damn straight. I'm a 58 year old white woman - an elementary school teacher - and I tell my own 2 kids not to trust the police. To just tell them name, birthdate, address, that kind of stuff if they're ever questioned by the police. To answer no other questions nor to consent to any searches without a lawyer present. And to be polite, so they won't beat you up. Or kill you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khal-a-bunga Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Wow, the comments on those Police One articles might actually be worse than the articles themselves (the second, especially). Doublethink (and/or doublespeak, for that matter) at its finest. Just remember... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlY9C6pzxKc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueMetis Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Damn straight. I'm a 58 year old white woman - an elementary school teacher - and I tell my own 2 kids not to trust the police. To just tell them name, birthdate, address, that kind of stuff if they're ever questioned by the police. To answer no other questions nor to consent to any searches without a lawyer present. And to be polite, so they won't beat you up. Or kill you. You know things are messed up when people are bring told to give their police only slightly more information than a soldier captured for interrogation give to their captors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairBearHero Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Wow, the comments on those Police One articles might actually be worse than the articles themselves (the second, especially). Doublethink (and/or doublespeak, for that matter) at its finest. Just remember... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlY9C6pzxKc They're hilariously awful. The number of comments painting Wilson as "the real victim" whose "life will never be the same again" is amazing. Regardless of what happened, it ain't Wilson's life that's changed the most. That "honour" would probably go to Mike Brown... It very much reminds me of the outbursts of sympathy for the Stubenville (sp?) rapists and their ruined football careers, the poor kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davos Posted September 1, 2014 Author Share Posted September 1, 2014 *mod hat* the 400 post mark has come and gone. Closing this thread. I'm not going to start a new thread but anyone who wants to feel free */mod hat* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 you forgot to close it Davos =P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davos Posted September 1, 2014 Author Share Posted September 1, 2014 Knew there was somwthing I was forgetting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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