bellyfrog Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Hey, I've only recently joined the forums and I've been reading a lot of the theories knocking around. R+L=J seems to be the most commonly believed one, it's also the only one I actually grasped upon reading the books alone. I'm just beginning my second read through and got to the chapter where Ned dreams about the Tower of Joy. It seems to be implied that the Kingsguard are there because they are protecting a king (believed to be Jon)? What I don't understand is why they consider Jon the rightful heir as oppose to Viserys? When Aerys died surely the throne passes to Rhaegar and when he dies, on to Viserys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOldWolf Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Because when Aerys died the throne passes to Rhaegar and since Rhaegar died it passes to Jon.It could have only gone to Viserys if Aerys didn't have a son or Rhaegar died. But Jon would have been conceived before Rhaegar died therefor Rhaegar would have had an Heir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game Of Thrones Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Rhaegar married Lyanna so Jon is a Targ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastStark Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 When the King dies, his son(Rhaegar) is next in line,then Rhaegar's son's would be before Viserys. Only when Aegon was "killed" did Viserys become the next in line. And I think that R+L=J is true but that Jon is still a bastard, not trueborn and therefore would have no claim to the throne. They were there because Rhaegar ordered them to be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastStark Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Rhaegar married Lyanna so Jon is a Targ. When and why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellyfrog Posted August 21, 2014 Author Share Posted August 21, 2014 Okay thanks for clearing that up, sorry about the dumb question I guess I need to brush up on my rights to the throne :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastStark Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 It's a legit question, and I'm also wondering since Rhaegar died before Arey's, would that make Visery's next before Rhaegar's kids? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game Of Thrones Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 When and why? Because the KG guards the king and there was no reason why they would not join Viserys. Rhaegar's orders < Guarding the king. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastStark Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 the mad king was still alive, so if their orders were guard the king, they would have went to KL, not stay at the ToJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game Of Thrones Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 the mad king was still alive, so if their orders were guard the king, they would have went to KL, not stay at the ToJ. The mad king was dead by the time Ned went to save Lyanna. Aerys dead ---> Tyrells surrender ---> Tower of Joy ---> Stannis takes Dragonstone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastStark Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Rhaegar ordered them to keep them safe, but not because he was married to her, because there needed to be one more head for the dragon, no matter which way you slice it, Jon is a targ bastard and Snow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastStark Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 The mad king was dead by the time Ned went to save Lyanna. Aerys dead ---> Tyrells surrender ---> Tower of Joy ---> Stannis takes Dragonstone. Yes but when Rhaegar left the ToJ, the mad king was still alive and well at KL, so they would still go back to KL if their orders were to protect the king, because even in that circumstance, and for arguments sake I'll even say Jon is legit, Jon is still 4th in line behind the mad king, Rhaegar, and Aegon, so why would they protect the 4th in line? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game Of Thrones Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Yes but when Rhaegar left the ToJ, the mad king was still alive and well at KL, so they would still go back to KL if their orders were to protect the king, because even in that circumstance, and for arguments sake I'll even say Jon is legit, Jon is still 4th in line behind the mad king, Rhaegar, and Aegon, so why would they protect the 4th in line?Well, because Aerys and Aegon had a Kingsguard guarding them (Jaime) and so did Rhaegar (Lewyn Martell). Not true for Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Yes but when Rhaegar left the ToJ, the mad king was still alive and well at KL, so they would still go back to KL if their orders were to protect the king, because even in that circumstance, and for arguments sake I'll even say Jon is legit, Jon is still 4th in line behind the mad king, Rhaegar, and Aegon, so why would they protect the 4th in line? Because Rhaegar had Selmy, Darry and Martell and 40,000 men while Aerys and Aegon had Lannister and 2,000 men while Jon had only them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastStark Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 But then why 3? That's half of the Kingsguard for the 4th in line to be king? That makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Because they were available, knew to keep their mouth shut and Rhaegar said so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game Of Thrones Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 But then why 3? That's half of the Kingsguard for the 4th in line to be king? That makes no sense. Because Rhaegar had the Royal Army to defend him as well and Aerys and Aegon had the City Watch. Lyanna had only the KG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guy Garlan Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 But then why 3? That's half of the Kingsguard for the 4th in line to be king? That makes no sense. It makes somewhat sense if those three had been conspiring with Rhaegar from the beginning and didn't care for Aerys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastStark Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Because Rhaegar had Selmy, Darry and Martell and 40,000 men while Aerys and Aegon had Lannister and 2,000 men while Jon had only them. Yes all the way down in Dorne, where the fighting wasn't, and with the Tyrell army between them and KL. They were ordered to stay there by Rhaegar, and they followed that order. Yes their job is to protect the king, but if the king tells them to protect someone else then they will have to follow that order according to their oath. It has nothing to do with Jon being the rightful king, he's a bastard and a snow regardless of who his father is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastStark Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 It makes somewhat sense if those three had been conspiring with Rhaegar from the beginning and didn't care for Aerys that would be interesting, but IIRC they were disappointed that they weren't at the Trident or KL, and said that if they were at the Trident the battle would have gone the other way, and if they were at KL Areys would still be on the IT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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