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Why didn't Robb squire?


NorthernXY

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Brandon and Ned both squired. There are several mentions of Northmen squiring with other Northmen. Halys Hornwood's bastard Larence is ward at Deepwood Motte. Domeric Bolton was a page in Barrowtown for his aunt Barbrey Dustin and squired for Horton Redfort.



Big and Small Walder are fostered in Winterfell. Olyvar is taken as Robb's squire.


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Brandon and Ned both squired. There are several mentions of Northmen squiring with other Northmen. Halys Hornwood's bastard Larence is ward at Deepwood Motte. Domeric Bolton was a page in Barrowtown for his aunt Barbrey Dustin and squired for Horton Redfort.

Big and Small Walder are fostered in Winterfell. Olyvar is taken as Robb's squire.

Squire and wards/ pages are all a bit different.

Wards can be given as hostages, or to foster good relations between Houses. Hence why Robert and Ned both went to the Vale. Rickard was planning on having some Southern ambitions and by giving Ned to Jon Arryn he was able to make relations with the Vale AND the Baratheons.

A page is somewhat the same thing, but the relations you receive from doing so are usually nominal. It's more of being a servant.

A squire is a place of high honor if you are squiring for someone very prestigious. That is usually to help the person who is squirings reputation, or to try and get one of your family members an in with the royal family etc.

There is no knights in the North. The question would be, why wasn't he a ward?

I don't think the heirs usually became wards.....at least not for the Starks. Brandon didn't get warded anywhere for that long. And Robb....well he had a lot of time before anyone thought he was going to be the Lord of WF.

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Because Ned is a isolationist and never prepares for the future. Let me point out that having the Arryns nd Tullys as relatives and the Baratheons as nominal allies didn't really served the starks much since they isolate themselves. Why couldn't Sansa or Arya lern the southorn court ways at RR? Or Robb/Bran be a page/squire at the Eyrie or SE or even WH? It's the same reason why no matches are being planned, no (voluntary) wards are taken. If it wasn't his sense of duty towards the Stark legacy, Ned would fit in the NW perfectly.


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He was fostered at Barrowton.

Yeah no I remember that. But what I mean is do we have any idea of how long he was there compared to how long Ned was in the Vale? I for some reason think that him being at Barrowtown was a lot shorter and more inconsistent as to how much Ned was in the Eyrie.

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A page is somewhat the same thing, but the relations you receive from doing so are usually nominal. It's more of being a servant.

Actually it's more to teach the boy manners and etiquette. Sort of like apprenticing in courtly life.

A squire is a place of high honor if you are squiring for someone very prestigious. That is usually to help the person who is squirings reputation, or to try and get one of your family members an in with the royal family etc.

... and to teach the teenager the more martial aspects of nobility. Without the hurt feelings of a father or somesuch putting him into place.

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Because Ned is a isolationist and never prepares for the future. Let me point out that having the Arryns nd Tullys as relatives and the Baratheons as nominal allies didn't really served the starks much since they isolate themselves. Why couldn't Sansa or Arya lern the southorn court ways at RR? Or Robb/Bran be a page/squire at the Eyrie or SE or even WH? It's the same reason why no matches are being planned, no (voluntary) wards are taken. If it wasn't his sense of duty towards the Stark legacy, Ned would fit in the NW perfectly.

I agree with this. Whatever Southron ambitions the Starks had pretty much died with Rickard. I found it a little weird (almost plot hole- ish) that the Starks had all these kids but none of them were sent away yet. Especially Sansa. I think she would have done well at RR, if not KL as a companion to Myrcella. Especially because of the closeness with the Baratheons and Starks. The only thing that stopped that was probably Neds hatred of the Lannisters.

Keeping Jon close is pretty much explainable if you believe who his parents are and Neds promise to Lyanna. I think Bran would have been sent off already if he wasn't Catelyns favorite.

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the second bold part to me goes without saying. And so does the first, kind of. It is to teach etiquette and to be a part of the foster families life. I'm just saying that I think a page is a little less.....hmmm.......prestigious I guess you could say, than a ward.

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Squire and wards/ pages are all a bit different.

Pages usually then become squires. Somewhat like primary school then going somewhere else for secondary. Also helps build alliances. Giving someone your son to train says, "Hey, I trust you with my heir/son." Then when that page or squire grows older, they're less likely to ever go to war with them because of the history between the page/squire and who they paged/squired for.

Having someone as a ward means they're under your legal guardianship. It can be the case of being a hostage like Theon but I'm sure Larence isn't a hostage in Deepwood Motte.

EDIT: BBE said it better.

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Pages usually then become squires.

Having someone as a ward means they're under your legal guardianship.

EDIT: BBE said it better.

true. I would like to see more examples of Pages and wards and how exactly they fit into the closeness of the family. I think the Rosby inheritance will show a precedent set for things like that. Also, I'm pretty sure the ward is Olyvar.

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true. I would like to see more examples of Pages and wards and how exactly they fit into the closeness of the family. I think the Rosby inheritance will show a precedent set for things like that. Also, I'm pretty sure the ward is Olyvar.

Robb Stark takes Olyvar as a squire as part of the pact sealed between Catelyn Stark and Lord Walder to join the Freys to the Stark cause in the War of the Five Kings.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Olyvar_Frey

Robb isn't a knight, so he can't technically make Olyvar a knight, but Olyvar can squire for him and be knighted by someone else. Though I'm sure most would look the other way if Robb had knighted him, Robb being a king who worships the Old Gods.

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Robb isn't a squire, because he isn't training to become a knight ;) That doesn't mean that he doesn't receive the same training as a squire :) We see that he does, in Game of Thrones, as Ser Rodrik, the Master-at-Arms, trains him.



Ned was fostered in the Vale, and did all the things for Jon Arryn that a squire would have done. Yet Ned wasn't a squire, because he wasn't training for knighthood.




So Robb wasn't a squire in name, but his training was equal to the training that a squire would have received.


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Brandon and Ned both squired.

Martin has said that Ned performed the duties of a squire for Jon Arryn, but technically wasn't one because he was not training for knighthood.

Edit: Ninja'd.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Olyvar_Frey

Robb isn't a knight, so he can't technically make Olyvar a knight, but Olyvar can squire for him and be knighted by someone else. Though I'm sure most would look the other way if Robb had knighted him, Robb being a king who worships the Old Gods.

A king can make a knight, even if he was not knighted. Still Robb wasn't King yet, so yeah the understanding was probably that the Blackfish or someone would knight him.

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