Relic Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 So I recently realized I could easily obtain a Polish passport, as i was born there. My parents moved to NYC when i was a wee lad and i grew up a New Yorker (first) and an American (second). I always knew that i had dual citizenship but it never really dawned on me what that meant. While i have spent many months of the last few years in Central and South America, and Asia, i had never visited Europe until i arrived in Paris in June. I have since traveled from France to Spain to Italy to the Czech Republic and have immersed myself in the cultures of those wonderful countries. All the while I kept my eye out on news from back home and watched in horror as the situation in Ferguson spiraled into a shit stained quagmire. I read comments and posts by many Americans and the vitriolic hatred in them towards people of color and anyone who opposed strict gun laws was sort of the last straw. Something in me snapped, and the thin line that connected me to the concept of being "An American" dissolved. Fuck it. I no longer want to be an American. Thusly, I decided to not return to the States in any fashion other than to visit. Once my Round the World trip ends i will relocate myself in Europe for a time until I decide if i want to move to SE Asia. I can no longer accept the shit the USA does and has done. Those of us who kept our cool after 9-11 knew that invading Iraq would lead to a breeding ground for something truly truly evil. Yet 80% of our population supported Cheney and his cronies. The result? Well, they are clear. We claim to be a country of the free, yet most of our citizens are enslaved to debt, are leashed to their entertainment. We are a country who could easily educate each and every citizen and engage in brilliant acts of scientific and philosophical evolution yet we charge immense amounts of money for narrow paths of study, specific to occupational fields. We could feed the world but instead we gorge ourselves on empty calories. We could, we could, we could. But we don't. Our way of life is being dictated by a drive for profit, and we do nothing as the noose of enslavement tightens around our necks. Overly dramatic you might say. Not dramatic enough i would retort. We need significant change to break out of the thick molds our waning lives have been plugged into but there is no fucking way the rich and powerful will allow for that. Instead we have The Avengers 2 coming soon to a theater near you! Anyway, i can go on and on but im sure i have drawn enough yawns for the time being. Just going to respond to a post in the Ferguson thread before i wrap this up. He will probably be disappointed when he makes the move though. People can be shitty anywhere you go. He wants to go to Europe? Well the thing about that is, there is a lot of racism and violence in Europe. Some places are nice, others not as nice. It is the same here in the US. Yes, "he" is moving to the EU. No, "he" is not naive enough to be blind to the racism found in many areas there. Thanks for the concern tho. And thanks for the genuine support fellas. Appreciate it. Racism is not the only motivating factor, since it's found everywhere. I just can't stand the hypocrisy of the United States. We really do engage in double-think more than any place I've ever been. I prefer my racism out in the open, my fascism clearly on display, and my gun laws strict. I no longer want to live in a country so deluded in it's thinking that a majority of it's citizens claim its the greatest place on the planet without actually having gone ANYWHERE for ANY length of time because they are actively taking part in a system that enslaves them to their debt, their jobs, and their small circles of comfort. One thing i absolutely LOVE about Europe is it's "cafe culture". People go outside, sit around in little cafes and fucking TALK. To other people. Hell they have a beer and bullshit amongst each other at noon. Noon!! Lazy heathens! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NestorMakhnosLovechild Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I think that American military adventurism abroad is the worst (existential) thing about being an American. But on a practical level, our culture of work is just fucking terrible. Lengthy paid vacations? Government-mandated paternity leave? Actual 40 hour work weeks? A reasonable retirement age? Sign me up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 the US is least likely to bomb itself, yo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Best of luck man, it takes some fortitude to make a decision like that. I have to admit that the beer and chatter at lunch has been one of the great joys of my life and am baffled that it is so frowned upon in the US.:cheers::thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errant Bard Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I hope you'll find a nice place where you can be happy. I have a healthy respect for a lot of things that originated from US, but nowadays the country and a lot of the culture scares me, and the more I learn the less want to live there... even if it's not all roses anywhere, I still like my country. Hell they have a beer and bullshit amongst each other at noon. Noon!! Lazy heathens! I'll drink a beer in your honour tomorrow, or maybe wine, while (before/after) eating lunch and talking to people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Relic,At my Dad's 4th of July cook out he started browbeating me because I do not, and have told him I do not, believe in American Exceptionalism. The chest thumping idea that America is right and "Fuck you!" if you disagree really turns my stomach. I even tried to explain that it wasn't the US that saved the world in both world wars. He thinks I've lost my mind. My wife and I have discussed the possiblity of expatriating (among other possible retirement options) once our kids are out and on their own. I really wish you all the best in your non-North American adventures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 the US is least likely to bomb itself, yo. Fairly likely to shoot and gas itself, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiDisaster Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Good luck man. I wish you all the best :cheers: I hope to have the ability to do the same one day but the only citizenship I have is American and money and work are the other issues. I could probably get Jamaican citizenship easily enough (I already have unconditional landing, so I can live and work there indefinitely) having lived there for 16 years and having most of my extended family being citizens there but much as I enjoy visiting home I don't think I can see myself living there again for any extended period of time. Maybe I'll marry one of my Canadian friends and hope we don't get caught out :lol: ETA: This is a joke, before anyone cautions me on it. I'm fully aware that it is a terrible idea and would never attempt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arch-MaesterPhilip Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I have the option of getting Italian citizenship but I'm not so sure I'd take advantage of it. I can't speak Italian very well so Italy is out, I have no skills worth a shit and I'm not so certain I'd fit in elsewhere in the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakan Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I respect your decision :).I love NYC (was there twice) but as I saw myself NYC is not the US. In (Western) Europe people had for a long long time the notion that the US is the "land of individual freedom" and surely it was that way for many years. But nowadays IMO it's just a myth. I feel much more "free" to live as I want in places like Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Berlin, Barcelona or Cologne. The US is a great country, no question about that, but there are many great places out there :). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I'm not really qualified to have an opinion on your reasons because I'm neither American nor have ever been here, but observing the culture from this side of the pond (and via a few American friends since I've moved to Berlin), I'm not at all surprised by your reasons. As people have pointed out other countries have no end of their own problems, but the US as a whole has a superiority complex that seems to make it very difficult to address problems or even admit they exist. It seems to me there's a hypocrisy built in there, somehow fundamentally.You should be ready for the fact though that wherever you do end up, no matter how much you are aware that shit goes on everywhere, there will be unexpected things that irritate you in different ways.But have you given any thought of where you actually want to live? 'The EU' covers a wildly differing range of places, obviously, and just plonking yourself down at random and hoping to find work and stuff is just asking for trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yersinia Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 The truth is, those other countries don't really want you, and you'll still have to file US tax returns. But if that's what you really want, then good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiDisaster Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 The truth is, those other countries don't really want you, and you'll still have to file US tax returns. But if that's what you really want, then good luck. Let's be honest, if you're not wealthy as all hell the US probably doesn't want you either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakan Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Relic,At my Dad's 4th of July cook out he started browbeating me because I do not, and have told him I do not, believe in American Exceptionalism. The chest thumping idea that America is right and "Fuck you!" if you disagree really turns my stomach. I even tried to explain that it wasn't the US that saved the world in both world wars. He thinks I've lost my mind. My wife and I have discussed the possiblity of expatriating (among other possible retirement options) once our kids are out and on their own. I really wish you all the best in your non-North American adventures.That is a great piece of self-reflection. I must say that I have great respect for such a post. It's never easy to acknowledge to oneself that things are not that "rosy" but it's the first step for a society to evolve further :). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arch-MaesterPhilip Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 The truth is, those other countries don't really want you, and you'll still have to file US tax returns. But if that's what you really want, then good luck. I think that is why I'd never leave. I'd be a man without a country and I'm not so sure I could deal with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errant Bard Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 In (Western) Europe people had for a long long time the notion that the US is the "land of individual freedom" and surely it was that way for many years. But nowadays IMO it's just a myth.Not sure about that. Individual freedom means competition between those free individuals, and if you mix it with a culture of violence, and severe inequalities, you get something close to reality, it feels. As a free individual, you of course have a lot of headstart if you are white, rich, Christian, a born citizen and ivy-league educated rather than black, poor, atheist, in debt and trying for a green card, heh? I even tried to explain that it wasn't the US that saved the world in both world wars. He thinks I've lost my mind.I don't even know why he'd think that about world war 1, but the US did a great job smacking Germany and Japan in WW2, even if Russia did as much or more, and with more losses, and even if winning a war seldom counts as saving the world, Auschwitz was something to close down, there is something to be proud of (even if again, the race to reach these camp and Berlin was about beating the Russians). That the end of war sharing of the world sowed the seeds of the next conflicts does not diminish the accomplishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I've a pretty unique perspective, I think, as a young immigrant to the US, who came to this country at the age of 3 from a country that was one of America's few colonies, and still has a pretty complicated relationship with the US. I am the beneficiary of America's generosity and the victim of its foreign policy adventurism, as my family was fleeing the oppression of a US-backed dictator, a dictator whose regime killed my father two weeks before being driven out by a popular revolt and fleeing to Hawaii in US military transports. I've oh so much to say on this subject but I don't have the time to do it now. For now let me vigorously cosign the sentiments Relic expressed in the OP, and please forgive me the self-referentiality of me linking an old post of mine (I worked at it a lot) where I go a bit into the founding sins of America: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/61055-why-slayer420-is-wrong/page-11#entry2928114 I'd say, if anything, my perspective has become more cynical and negative since that post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davos Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 If my personal situation would allow, and I could find an avenue to do so, I would move out of the US in a heartbeat, at least to Canada and possibly to Europe. I'm tied here at least until my kids are done with high school and reasonably independent. It makes me I'll watching the path this country is on and it feels like the chance of a course correction are very slim to nonexistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deleted01 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Come to England, we have tea, scones, and nice parks. I would love to visit the US someday, but it's always kind of scared me. I may get some titters for that, but it's the truth. I hate guns, and the news we get about gun violence, and racism, and all the other crap going on, is just horrific. Good luck to you. I hope you find somewhere that makes you happy. The truth is, those other countries don't really want you I can't speak for other countries, but British people don't really want loud, obnoxious Americans, who think they're better than everyone else and look down their noses at us. And those that chuck tea into the harbour on Independence Day. All other Americans are welcome.. I think that is why I'd never leave. I'd be a man without a country and I'm not so sure I could deal with that. ..Especially you. I doubt I could ever leave the UK, but I did renounce my ties to my place of birth, and attempt to put down roots in the West Country. The way of life down there is so different, and I fully intend on returning. So I can always respect someone's decision to leave somewhere that no longer makes them happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakan Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 The truth is, those other countries don't really want you, and you'll still have to file US tax returns. But if that's what you really want, then good luck.Well if Relic has no qualification whatsoever he could always file for asylum in Germany due to political repression :P :). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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