Is fAegon the last of the Blackfyre line of Targaryens? If so...

[Bloodrobin]

Okay, so not everyone believes that Aegon is fake or that he is a Blackfyre. But many readers believe that he is and that Varys and Illyrio are Blackfyre loyalists who are plotting together to place a Blackfyre on the Iron Throne as the rightful ruler of Westeros. For those who do believe this, is fAegon the last of the line? Magister Illyrio makes the statement that the Blackfyres are extinct in the male line...

Illyrio brushed away the objection as if it were a fly. “Black or red, a dragon is still a dragon. When Maelys the Monstrous died upon the Stepstones, it was the end of the male line of House Blackfyre.” The cheesemonger smiled through his forked beard. “And Daenerys will give the exiles what Bittersteel and the Blackfyres never could. She will take them home.”

Which leaves open the possibility that the line may not be extinct in the female line. Some think that Illyrio's wife might have been a Blackfyre descendant. None of this is anything new here. But if it is true and fAegon is a Blackfyre, is he the last one? Are there any other potential Blackfyre pretenders? Obviously Varys could also be a Blackfyre, but since he is a eunuch, it hardly matters as related to succession issues. He could never be a pretender to the Iron Throne.

I specifically ask this question about fAegon because I wonder - what would be the reaction of Varys if/when fAegon is killed? Where would his loyalties then lie? He previously served Aerys, so he served the Targaryens. But he is thought to have given Aerys bad advice in order to undermine his rule and may have even managed to arrange his appointment as Aerys's master of whisperers. He may have been working all along to remove Aerys and especially to block Rhaegar from the throne since he would have been a good ruler by all accounts and prevented fAegon's ascent once he came of age. In the event of fAegon's death, would Varys (and Illyrio for that matter) turn his loyalties to a non-Blackfyre Targaryen like Dany? Or (if R + L = J) to a son of Rhaegar?

[aryagonnakill#2]

I have theorized since the Arianne sample chapters came out that he will have a bastard child threw the bastard Lady Lance. I think the sample chapters spell out that Aegon will be attracted to her rather than Arianne.

[King Viserys Targaryen IV]

I don't necessarily believe that (f)Aegon is the last Blackfyre or even the the Blackfyre that would technically be the Blackfyre in line for the Throne. Varys and Illyrio's plan seem to pre-date (f)Aegon's birth, so I would say that he is the Blackfyre that is approximately the age of the real Aegon and they are using him for their plan.

In the end, I think that their plan boils down to; put a Blackfyre on the Iron Throne (any Blackfyre) and extinguish the Targaryen line. Even if no one knows that they did it, they will have succeeded in winning the Blackfyre rebellion.

[Rhaegal Targaryen]

There are plenty of Blackfyres desceandants but i think Aegon will be the last serious threat.

[King of Winters]

Paper Weaver did a thread that explains that Illyrio is a Blackfyre and Varys and Serra were Brightflames, so a Aegon isn't the last Blackfyre alive. But as Paper Weaver theorises, there have been 6 six Blackfyre Rebellions and there'll be one more.

I think Aegon will be the last attempt of the Blackfyres winning the IT, though I cannot say whether he'll father a child before or during the second DotD.

[Fire Eater]

Paper Weaver did a thread that explains that Illyrio is a Blackfyre and Varys and Serra were Brightflames, so a Aegon isn't the last Blackfyre alive. But as Paper Weaver theorises, there have been 6 six Blackfyre Rebellions and there'll be one more.

I think Aegon will be the last attempt of the Blackfyres winning the IT, though I cannot say whether he'll father a child before or during the second DotD.

Five Blackfyre Rebellions not six. Aegon will be the last Blackfyre Pretender regardless. Illyrio isn't a Blackfyre, if you follow the Henry VIII parallel, Serra is. The Brightlfame angle needlessly convolutes things.

[Good Guy Garlan]

I don't know, bringing yet another random Blackfyre this late in the game would stretch credibility to the breaking point

If the Blackfyre line is going to survive, I think it will be through Aegon's descendants and nothing more

[Rhaegal Targaryen]

Five Blackfyre Rebellions not six. Aegon will be the last Blackfyre Pretender regardless. Illyrio isn't a Blackfyre, if you follow the Henry VIII parallel, Serra is. The Brightlfame angle needlessly convolutes things.

It makes more sense to think that Serra is the Brightframe than a Blackfyre since she is from Lys.Illyrio could very well be a Blackfyre through his mother but if we follow the Henry VIII parallel Serra and Varys are Blackfyres but i dont think it could be said that the Blackfyre male line is extinct as long as Varys lives.

[King of Winters]

Five Blackfyre Rebellions not six. Aegon will be the last Blackfyre Pretender regardless. Illyrio isn't a Blackfyre, if you follow the Henry VIII parallel, Serra is. The Brightlfame angle needlessly convolutes things.

Even though I love historical parallels, I should know, I've made 4 threads on them; I think this could make sense:

PART 1 – THE BLACK DRAGON MUSEUM

Foreshadowing for the 7^th Blackfyre Campaign

He slew Aegon first, the elder of the twins, for he knew that Daemon would never leave the boy whilst warmth lingered in his body, though white shafts fell like rain. Nor did he, though seven arrows pierced him, driven as much by sorcery as by Bloodraven’s bow. Young Aemon took up Blackfyre when the blade slipped from his dying father’s fingers, so Bloodraven slew him, too, the younger of the twins. Thus perished the black dragon and his sons.

I always take this as evidence that there were 6 Blackfyre Rebellions in the past and fAegon’s campaign will be the 7^th and the last. Bloodraven pierced Daemon with 7 arrows until he dropped dead. This symbolically represents that the Black Dragon Cause took a wound by each failed rebellion. The 7^th Campaign will come to an end with fAegon’s demise, thus the Black Dragon will perish completely.

So far, there are 5 confirmed Blackfyre Rebellions in the past. There is a room for the 6^th but it lacks direct textual evidences, except such foreshadowing and symbolism.

Black or Red, a Cherry Is Still a Cherry

I think there can be found additional symbolism showing that fAegon’s campaign will be the 7^th.

Beneath his window six cherry trees stood sentinel around a marble pool, their slender branches bare and brown. A naked boy stood on the water, poised to duel with a bravo’s blade in hand. He was lithe and handsome, no older than sixteen, with straight blond hair that brushed his shoulders. So lifelike did he seem that it took the dwarf a long moment to realize he was made of painted marble, though his sword shimmered like true steel.

Illyrio claims that this statue is his own and carved when he was 16. The appearance of the statue also resembles fAegon remarkably. By the way, Illyrio claimed that he was a poor bravo working with Varys when they were young but we see that he was rich enough to hire an artist to make a wonderful marble statue of him at the age of 16. Isn’t there a big fat lie as Frey Family Reunion pointed out before?

Illyrio smiled as his serving men spooned out bowls of black cherries in sweet cream for them both.

There are six cherry trees with bare branches around the statue. I bet the black cherries Illyrio served Tyrion were collected from the bare cherry trees in the garden. Hence, these must be black cherry trees as befits the Black Dragon. Therefore, this garden is something like the Black Dragon Museum.

There are many kinds of cherries including the red ones and the black ones, though cherries are mostly red and the first color comes to mind when we think of a cherry is red. There is a specific color called cherry red and it is mostly associated with deceptions, more on this later.

We would naturally assume that the bare cherry trees produce common red ones until Illyrio served Tyrion the black ones. Unifying this with the statue that looks almost real, I think the symbolism here suggests that the boy who looks real enough to be a red dragon is actually a black dragon. And since there are 6 cherry trees and a boy’s statue, this boy should be the 7^th. His sword looks like true steel because fAegon will at some point wield Blackfyre which is indeed true steel. I think he will use it very well because it is in his blood.

We know from TSS that Ser Eustace buried his sons who died for the Black Dragon in the Battle of Redgrass Field under blackberry bushes. Whenever there is a specific mention of blackberry or black cherry, we should look for a possible connection with the Blackfyres. Same is also true for plums. Sometimes we see the mention of black or dark plums. We will also come to that later.

[Bloodrobin]

Five Blackfyre Rebellions not six. Aegon will be the last Blackfyre Pretender regardless. Illyrio isn't a Blackfyre, if you follow the Henry VIII parallel, Serra is. The Brightlfame angle needlessly convolutes things.

Agreed. What do you think Varys and Illyrio will do if/when fAegon is toast?

[King Viserys Targaryen IV]

Agreed. What do you think Varys and Illyrio will do if/when fAegon is toast?

They will share the same fate as (f)Aegon

[Mithras]

Five Blackfyre Rebellions not six. Aegon will be the last Blackfyre Pretender regardless. Illyrio isn't a Blackfyre, if you follow the Henry VIII parallel, Serra is. The Brightlfame angle needlessly convolutes things.

Five of them are confirmed absolutely but there is this info that the Yronwoods rode with Bittersteel three times. I think the first rebellion cannot be counted as “riding with Bittersteel” because Daemon was the figurehead of the first campaign. It would be more proper to call that “riding with Daemon” for the First Rebellion. Therefore, there is a room for the sixth.

196 AC - 1^st Rebellion: Daemon I vs. Daeron II

212 AC - 2^nd Rebellion: Daemon II vs. Aerys I (No BS)

2?? AC - 3^rd Rebellion: Haegon I (most probably) vs. Maekar (BS + Yronwood #1)

236 AC - 4^th Rebellion: Daemon III vs. Egg (BS + Yronwood #2)

2?? AC - 5^th Rebellion: ? vs. Egg (BS + Yronwood #3)

261 AC - 6^th Rebellion: Maelys vs. Jaehaerys II (Wot9PK - No BS)

300 AC - 7^th Rebellion: fAegon vs. Dany

BTW, historical parallels are not perfect :)

[Lord Varys]

It's easily possible that there a still plenty of Blackfyre descendants out there. Daemon I had seven sons, and at least four could have had children of their. And no one ever seems to think about his daughters - we don't know how much he had, but it is all but confirmed that one or even two daughters were born between the twins and Daemon II.

Daemon III must have been a grandson, possibly a son of Haegon's, and he could have had younger siblings, and cousins a plenty (from Haegon's younger brothers and the sisters).

Illyrio's line does not need to have to refer to a daughter/sister of Maelys (who would, most likely, be a younger cousins of Daemon III), it could also refer to a long established female branch of House Blackfyre, going back to, say, Daemon's eldest daughter.

And no one seems to consider that Bittersteel could have married and fathered children, by the way. What of Illyrio is his descendant by a daughter or granddaughter of Daemon I? That could explain how (and why) Illyrio controls the Golden Company...

[Lady Blizzardborn]

I agree that there will be at least one Blackfyre claimant who will try to take the throne, but I'm not convinced it will be Aegon, particularly because it's such a popular idea that Aegon is a Blackfyre. It seems too obvious and easy to me.

[King Viserys Targaryen IV]

I agree that there will be at least one Blackfyre claimant who will try to take the throne, but I'm not convinced it will be Aegon, particularly because it's such a popular idea that Aegon is a Blackfyre. It seems too obvious and easy to me.

That's the same argument that everyone uses for R+L=J, but its only obvious and easy because of the internet and sites like this. To 90% of the readers who do not encounter place like this they have no idea.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

I agree that there will be at least one Blackfyre claimant who will try to take the throne, but I'm not convinced it will be Aegon, particularly because it's such a popular idea that Aegon is a Blackfyre. It seems too obvious and easy to me.

I agree. I think there is even more people believing him to be a BF than Jon being son of R and L. :lol:

I think that the GC being started by Bittersteel, a Blackfyre supporter, is a red herring. I'm more open to believe that Aegon is actually Rhaegar's bastard, tbh.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

That's the same argument that everyone uses for R+L=J, but its only obvious and easy because of the internet and sites like this. To 90% of the readers who do not encounter place like this they have no idea.

It's not the same case in how both theories are presented. RLJ has a lot of symbolism and references that you miss if you blink. In Aegon's case, it's pretty much literaly stated that is odd that a company founded by a Blackfyre loyalty is supporting a Targaryen pretender. In fact, everything related to Aegon is very ambiguous: the mummer's dragon, for instance: it fits both Aegon being real or not. In Jon's case, there is practically no doubt of who he really is.

[King Viserys Targaryen IV]

It's not the same case in how both theories are presented. RLJ has a lot of symbolism and references that you miss if you blink. In Aegon's case, it's pretty much literaly stated that is odd that a company founded by a Blackfyre loyalty is supporting a Targaryen pretender. In fact, everything related to Aegon is very ambiguous: the mummer's dragon, for instance: it fits both Aegon being real or not. In Jon's case, there is practically no doubt of who he really is.

I am not saying that the these two theories have the same evidence or probability of being true, only that saying they are obvious is simply not the case.

Obvious and Popular are two completely different things. If there was no internet, the percentage of people that would be aware of these theories or believe in them would be under 10%.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

I am not saying that the these two theories have the same evidence or probability of being true, only that saying they are obvious is simply not the case.

Obvious and Popular are two completely different things. If there was no internet, the percentage of people that would be aware of these theories or believe in them would be under 10%.

I'm not talking about popularity but how both cases are different in the way they are presented to the readers.

No one ever denies Jon being son of Ned, even Ned's thoughts about that are ambiguous. It's the mother the target of assumption and considerations. Everything that gives us a hint of who his real parents could be, are clues that are carefully disguised in the text, with crossed references and very subtle insinuations in phrasing, like Tyrion saying how he has nothing of his mother, or Cat mentioning that Ned probably should have loved Jon's mother very much. If you don't know already that there is something odd about Jon being Ned's son, those words mean absolutely nothing.

In Aegon's case, that doesn't happen. Since his very first appearance, he's presented at being someone else, in a book about identities. And Tyrion mentions how is odd that the Golden Company, a Blackfyre company, is following a Targaryen. Tyrion, who could be called one of the cleverest characters in books, know there is something wrong about this whole campaign, while he doesn't notice anything strange about Jon Snow. And Dany's prophecy mentions a "mummer's dragon", making everybody assume that means Aegon is actually a fake dragon, when it also could mean he's a dragon being controlled by a mummer.

When both theories are compared, Jon being Rhaegar's son is pretty much a given. With Aegon, the book is smoothly suggesting you that he might not be, since his introduction and the GC history also hints it.

[John Doe]

They join a Targaryen because the color does not matter, black or red, a dragon is still a dragon.