Sansa and Lyanna

[chrisdaw]

Lyanna was betrothed to marry a young man, he was heir to a great house, fostered in the Vale, a lover of women, loved by women and keen on a fight. Lyanna did not want the marriage and was whisked away by a dragon, who she then could have married.

Sansa's Robert is Harry, her dragon won't be Aegon.

[Good Guy Garlan]

Lyanna was betrothed to marry a young man, he was heir to a great house, fostered in the Vale, a lover of women, loved by women and keen on a fight. Lyanna did not want the marriage and was whisked away by a dragon, who she then could have married.

Sansa's Robert is Harry, her dragon won't be Aegon.

Then who?

[chrisdaw]

Tyrion.

[Good Guy Garlan]

Tyrion.

Yikes. You're saying A + J = T?

[Annara Snow]

Tyrion.

Eh? That doesn't make any kind of sense of any level. He's not any kind of "dragon", and he's the husband she was forced to marry, not someone she's going to run away with to get away from an unwanted marriage. You got things really mixed up...

[chrisdaw]

Yikes. You're saying A + J = T?

He'll be on Viseron's back regardless of who his father really is and who he or Westeros believes his father is.

[Good Guy Garlan]

He'll be on Viseron's back regardless of who his father really is and who he or Westeros believes his father is.

Double yikes. Why, though? They don't love each other, they never did, and Tyrion never once thinks about "rescuing" Sansa or something along those lines

Aegon, on the other hand, is quite likely and makes sense thematically and plotwise (since the Mad Mouse is likely working for Varys)

Plus, Tyrion riding a dragon might be too ridiculous for words, and I hope Martin stays away of that kind of pulp

[chrisdaw]

Tyrion riding Viserion is foreshadowed as deep as the naming and colouring but I don't want to turn this thread about it.

Tyrion won't go to the Vale to save Sansa, he'll go for the revenge against the Vale and SR that he has stated is his desire, the Vale where Sansa currently is and "I want to see the bad man fly" SR whom Sansa is caring for.

When Tyrion comes across his wife in the Vale Tyrion is not going to sit idly by while she marries Harry, and Tyrion's existence and even better his presence gives Sansa a way out of a marriage she won't want.

[Annara Snow]

Tyrion riding Viserion is foreshadowed as deep as the naming and colouring but I don't want to turn this thread about it.

Tyrion won't go to the Vale to save Sansa, he'll go for the revenge against the Vale and SR that he has stated is his desire, the Vale where Sansa currently is and "I want to see the bad man fly" SR whom Sansa is caring for.

When Tyrion comes across his wife in the Vale Tyrion is not going to sit idly by while she marries Harry, and Tyrion's existence and even better his presence gives Sansa a way out of a marriage she won't want.

Tyrion's presence is not at all needed to give Sansa a way out of the marriage with Harry. Tyrion's continued existence is enough.

[Visenya Stark]

Tyrion riding Viserion is foreshadowed as deep as the naming and colouring but I don't want to turn this thread about it.

Tyrion won't go to the Vale to save Sansa, he'll go for the revenge against the Vale and SR that he has stated is his desire, the Vale where Sansa currently is and "I want to see the bad man fly" SR whom Sansa is caring for.

When Tyrion comes across his wife in the Vale Tyrion is not going to sit idly by while she marries Harry, and Tyrion's existence and even better his presence gives Sansa a way out of a marriage she won't want.

Sansa also doesn't want to be married to Tyrion. His presence isn't going to make her happy.

[Bail o' Lies]

Why not Jon? Most people consider him a Targaryen already because of R+L=J.

[Dya of Oldstones]

Why not Jon? Most people consider him a Targaryen already because of R+L=J.

If R+L=J (a theory I agree with) they are first cousins and raised as siblings, not to mention it would be politically pointless. A lot up in the air with Jon if he stays with the NW or not. If he turns out to be KotN, I'm seeing a match with Val most likely for both personal and political reasons, and if he ends up on the IT, he may need to seek a match with someone from a southern family to "prove" he can rule the entire realm, having spent his whole life up to this point being fiercely loyal to his Northern roots.

Most likely scenario with Sansa and any Targ would be Aegon, but I don't see it going through if it even comes up in the books as a match for her.

ETA: If Jon does end up on the IT at the end, he may need a political marriage to build alliances with the southern part of Westeros. Either way, I don't see a marriage to Sansa making much sense for him.

[SerCas]

I like Sansa a lot, as a character of her own merit, but the comparisons to Arya are far, far more common and plentiful:

- Arya and Lyanna are both very good riders.
- Both practice swordsmanship (if you believe all of the Very Strong Lyanna=Weirwood Knight hints) or at least had interest in doing so (Lyanna play-fighting with Benjen in the godswood and Ned's assertion that she'd have wanted to have owned a sword).
- The many assertions that Arya resembles Lyanna (made by Ned, who would know what Lyanna looked like when she was Arya's age)

- Use of the word "stupid" when angry (Lyanna does it in Bran's vision)
- Various personality similarities.

[Visenya Stark]

If R+L=J (a theory I agree with) they are first cousins and raised as siblings, not to mention it would be politically pointless. A lot up in the air with Jon if he stays with the NW or not. If he turns out to be KotN, I'm seeing a match with Val most likely for both personal and political reasons, and if he ends up on the IT, he may need to seek a match with someone from a southern family to "prove" he can rule the entire realm, having spent his whole life up to this point being fiercely loyal to his Northern roots.

Most likely scenario with Sansa and any Targ would be Aegon, but I don't see it going through if it even comes up in the books as a match for her.

ETA: If Jon does end up on the IT at the end, he may need a political marriage to build alliances with the southern part of Westeros. Either way, I don't see a marriage to Sansa making much sense for him.

I'm more of a Queen Val person, but I have to admit, Jon marrying Sansa (his "sister") would really cement his claim as a Targaryen.

[JagLover]

I think Lyanna is what Arya would have become like if she had grown up in peace. A bit wild, and willing to beat some squires with a practice sword if she saw them mistreating someone, but not a killer.

I think a 17 year old arya, in those circumstances, would have been more like Lyanna than Sansa at any rate.

[ARYa_Nym]

I'm more of a Queen Val person, but I have to admit, Jon marrying Sansa (his "sister") would really cement his claim as a Targaryen.

Marrying Dany would do that and he can't marry any of his "siblings" if he can't prove to the masses that he's not Ned's son. Targs would marry the next of kin-Targaryen nieces/nephews, aunts/uncles, or cousins if there was no sibling. So the Targ thing to do would be to marry Dany which is what Aegon was trying to do.

Anyways, as to the topic I see the serial killer thing as inmaterial. It's something specific to Arya if one thinks GRRM is pointing in that direction with her ritualistic pattern. No one else in her family is a serial killer. Brandon may have liked killing but nothing points to him being a serial killer. Hoster may have been a Tywin lite but that still is different to a serial killer. Catelyn only killed in self defense and one person when she went mad so she can't qualify either. Uncat is N/A. She also works in a big group which a serial killer wouldn't do. Edmure is sweet. Lysa only killed one person. Ned killed in battle and deserters so he also doesn't apply. If Benjen killed anyone as a First Ranger it would have been in a scenario that also doesn't apply.

Same thing about her not being interested in sex/romance. Cat experimented when she was Arya's age and was very interested and possibly in love with Ned. Ned returned her affections.Lysa was like that with LF. Brandon liked sex/women. The same with Edmure.

Arya's lack of interest is something specific to her. Also, no other family member is using sex and murder which is a serial killer thing to do. That doesn't mean she can't have similarities with any of them and Lyanna specifically.

But according to Ned Lyanna is not someone you want to be like anyways.

I don't see Sansa being with a man who he has a wife and infant kids. Also, Sansa is supposed to be good at politics according to the fandom but Lyanna and Rhaegar's actions show political naivety. Also, perhaps a lack of political knowledge. Look at Alicent. She turned on Viserys' other wife's kid. Visenya killed Rhaenys' son Aenys and supported Maegor killing Aenys' son.

So if one wants to say well Lyanna wasn't a serial killer well nothing shows she had a mind for politics either. That would be Catelyn and Hoster Tully.

[ARYa_Nym]

I like Sansa a lot, as a character of her own merit, but the comparisons to Arya are far, far more common and plentiful:

- Arya and Lyanna are both very good riders.

- Both practice swordsmanship (if you believe all of the Very Strong Lyanna=Weirwood Knight hints) or at least had interest in doing so (Lyanna play-fighting with Benjen in the godswood and Ned's assertion that she'd have wanted to have owned a sword).

- The many assertions that Arya resembles Lyanna (made by Ned, who would know what Lyanna looked like when she was Arya's age)

- Use of the word "stupid" when angry (Lyanna does it in Bran's vision)

- Various personality similarities.

She also liked flowers but it's not said what she thought about winter roses. She picked flowers for Ned and when she went off with Mycah she was counting the flowers that she had never seen before.

Being the KOTLT points towards horsemanship as it's mostly that. Lyanna likely wasn't good with a sword. You have to train for years but still as you said she had an interest in it. Arya actually isn't that good with a sword either. It's confusion within the fandom that think she is. But an assassin only needs to excel at killing which she does and they mainly use poison. She just prefers the hidden blade. Swordmanship is a useful tool but if they are in a scenario where they have to fight it would be a sign of failure.

[Moondancer]

They both had a bit of Lyanna. Arya had the wolf blood and Sansa got a bit of her romantic vibe. Also, both of them are strong, the "iron beneath" that Ned talked about.

And yet NED (or rather GRRM, as a narrative device) find it in him to comment only on the resemblance between Arya and Lyanna. It is your opinion/projection that both of them are strong.

I am so sick of Sansa/Arya fans who constantly pit them against each other, and one of main points of difference between the sisters is that Arya is a tomboy (a glorious label in its own right) and Sansa is a delicate flower.

Please, Arya picked the flowers for her dad, showered Jon with kisses, and Sansa wanted to kill Joff - sure, she didn't act on her impulse but the sentiment is still a part of her nature. She may be raised in expectancy of both grace and civility, both given and received, but that's nurturing part of the growing up. Nature, peeps, goes deeper.

And now, widespread in its stupidity, we have the notion that Lyanna is an amalgam of Sansa and Arya. Mind you, all 3 are daughters of the North. They're bound to meet at some, however small, point. (And heavens forbid that Lyanna or any of the Stark girls have a personality of their own.)

Not to mention the shit Sansa receives on regular basis, whatever the reason.

The thing is... We label a lot. I was thinking that has to be a side product of the fact that in real life we get labelled a lot, and that reading gives us a chance of a compensation. All the tomboys of the world pray at Arya's temple for they named her the tomboy. "I am a tomboy and can totally relate to her, therfore she's a tomboy". We think we read the characters, but actually it is us who are being read.

Grow up, people.

[Mladen]

And now, widespread in its stupidity, we have the notion that Lyanna is an amalgam of Sansa and Arya. Mind you, all 3 are daughters of the North. They're bound to meet at some, however small, point. (And heavens forbid that Lyanna or any of the Stark girls have a personality of their own.)

I won't deal with rudeness of its post, but of its incorrectness. Lyanna certainly represents intersection of both sisters. It is easily to say that she is much more like Arya due to the physical appearance Ned pointed out early in the story, plus the "wolf blood" they shared. But, that certainly doesn't take any of the resemblance Lyanna and her story has with Sansa. From the entire crying during songs (anyone can imagine Arya doing so?) to the parallels regarding Bael the bard story, to falling in love with the Prince and the deaths to the family it brought. Ignoring these parallels is actually ignoring huge chunks of Lyanna's story which we can't compare to Arya.

So, I will stick to the text and resemblances to the both sisters Lyanna has. For undoubtedly, Lyanna did some things Arya, such as she is, would never do. We can ignore that, or we can accept that the different motifs of Lyanna's story have found their place in two Ned's daughters.

[ShadowCat Rivers]

I won't deal with rudeness of its post, but of its incorrectness. Lyanna certainly represents intersection of both sisters. It is easily to say that she is much more like Arya due to the physical appearance Ned pointed out early in the story, plus the "wolf blood" they shared. But, that certainly doesn't take any of the resemblance Lyanna and her story has with Sansa. From the entire crying during songs (anyone can imagine Arya doing so?) to the parallels regarding Bael the bard story, to falling in love with the Prince and the deaths to the family it brought. Ignoring these parallels is actually ignoring huge chunks of Lyanna's story which we can't compare to Arya.

So, I will stick to the text and resemblances to the both sisters Lyanna has. For undoubtedly, Lyanna did some things Arya, such as she is, would never do. We can ignore that, or we can accept that the different motifs of Lyanna's story have found their place in two Ned's daughters.

I agree, and I want to add that there are narrative reasons for the parallels: Martin has said that everything about Robert's rebellion will be told within the main ASOIAF series. That means flashbacks and second-hand info, so the characters involved won't be fully and explicitly fleshed out; who Lyanna was, ie her personality, her motives, her way of thinking will remain for a big part in twilight area. Much of it, the reader will have to guess or infer from indirect narrative resources such as parallels and symbolism. The two Stark girls' actions that parallel to Lyanna's and the character portrait the reader has pictured for them will be a sort of guide for the reader to sketch out (but not fully paint) a picture of Lyanna.

ETA: In that sense, my nitpicky side will remark that the question "which girl is more like Lyanna" is wrong. The question is, which girl is Lyanna more alike (both, I would answer).