Sansa and Lyanna

[Mladen]

I agree, and I want to add that there are narrative reasons for the parallels: Martin has said that everything about Robert's rebellion will be told within the main ASOIAF series. That means flashbacks and second-hand info, so the characters involved won't be fully and explicitly fleshed out; who Lyanna was, ie her personality, her motives, her way of thinking will remain for a big part in twilight area. Much of it, the reader will have to guess or infer from indirect narrative resources such as parallels and symbolism. The two Stark girls' actions that parallel to Lyanna's and the character portrait the reader has pictured for them will be a sort of guide for the reader to sketch out (but not fully paint) a picture of Lyanna.

ETA: In that sense, my nitpicky side will remark that the question "which girl is more like Lyanna" is wrong. The question is, which girl is Lyanna more alike (both, I would answer).

Basically this. The thing about this is that we have to enforce the idea of Sansa and Arya being complementary characters in their opposition (wonderful piece written by Lady Gwyn) and that Lyanna is basically the synthesis of the two. However, for the purposes of my essay, I had to enhance the similarities between Sansa and Lyanna in order to show the resemblances between the two of them. Which may be my major disagreement with the OP, for I don't believe Sansa/Lyanna>Arya/Lyanna. That being said, Arya/Lyanna parallels aren't in any way diminished or negated with that comparison.

[ARYa_Nym]

I agree, and I want to add that there are narrative reasons for the parallels: Martin has said that everything about Robert's rebellion will be told within the main ASOIAF series. That means flashbacks and second-hand info, so the characters involved won't be fully and explicitly fleshed out; who Lyanna was, ie her personality, her motives, her way of thinking will remain for a big part in twilight area. Much of it, the reader will have to guess or infer from indirect narrative resources such as parallels and symbolism. The two Stark girls' actions that parallel to Lyanna's and the character portrait the reader has pictured for them will be a sort of guide for the reader to sketch out (but not fully paint) a picture of Lyanna.

ETA: In that sense, my nitpicky side will remark that the question "which girl is more like Lyanna" is wrong. The question is, which girl is Lyanna more alike (both, I would answer).

He has created Elia Sand who I think already encompasses both aspects and she is more likely than Sansa or Arya to meet Aegon.

She is interested in jousting. Arya wasn't actually interested in jousting. She's just good at horseriding like Lyanna was as Harwin said. But Elia also likes boys and some have already speculated if she may catch Aegon's attention and it could cause problems. Of course that is just wild speculation at this point but she is also a possible Lyanna figure in the next novels. Lyanna herself has a connection with Dorne given the ToJ.

[ShadowCat Rivers]

Elia Sand is interesting in this aspect, she does have at first sight a lot in common with Lyanna, in the same time having the name of the third party of the triangle. We'll see... She doesn't seem particularly romantic, though.

In "reconstructing" Lyanna, Daenerys can be considered too. She is a willful young woman who fantasizes about her beloved kidnapping her, to escape an unwanted marriage.

[Moondancer]

I absolutely stand behind my words and if that offends you, I can't help you, Mladene (Or is it the "grow up" part that upsets you?) . The post was made in the most earnest desire to express my own opinion, as blunt as it may seem and that's it. It's hardly the worst thing read on this forum (not that this is an excuse or anything). And if it's incorrect, you're free to prove me wrong.

"Lyanna certainly represents intersection of both sisters."

Lyanna is a very dead character, who at this point of the narrative is an echo, and can be an intersection of Asha and Dany, for all we know. Please, don't insist on the familiar liaisons as a reason for the greater degree of similarity - I am sure that the same temperament can run in a certain family, however, temperament =/= character, nature (and this seems to be the base for your argument).

"anyone can imagine Arya doing so?"

Circumstantial... Who is to say that some another song won't make her teary, moved? Arya has displayed a great deal of emotional force. Look at her reaction for Mycha. Unlikely, at this point, but not impossible and certainly not out of character.

Which brings me to my point - that no character, fictional or not, should be dismissed and denied originality and most importantly autonomy when it comes to the development or in the case of the living creatures, simply existing (you know when your parent says - "you're just like my dad!"? - that). The idea that a character exist as an example for another character, and that thier personality, colouring, nature, temperament, you name it, is in the story not as an independent creation, whose development is implied rather than outright said, in these books which story is character driven and is eventually about the life itself is simply preposterous.

I know that there are similarities among the paths (paths, not personalities) of different (and unconnected) characters and that stands. You can draw the parallels, some of the of them are poignant, some funny, all of them intentional (for GRRM is the God of his world) and most importantly, they are all external. In the books, just like in life, you cannot choose what happens to you, free will and all. From the philosophical stance those happenings are divinely ;) random and good writers, who are by and large the great observational machines, know that, hence the use of that phenomenon in the story. In real life, somebody would say - Omg, did you see what happened to that Jaime? #ironic /ha, the God sees everything / what comes around goes around... Etc. But a person will ask, in the same way GRRM did, through his writing, what's that force? Justice? Equilibrium? Deities? The butterfly effect of the human actions? And most importantly - is it absolute?

In simpler words, Lyanna is no less of an intersection of other 2 fictional characters than any other RL person in comparison to other RL people. (I'd imagine that if she's indeed an intersection, this occurrence would upgrade fantasy literature to a whole different level, a truly fantastical level.) The tendencies to see the connections, the patterns etc is of the human, biological (our brains always scan for meaningful images - hence Jesus in the toast, for example) to find the meaning, sense, answers(!) that brings us... Satisfaction. And by all means indulge away... But, that's it, really. There's no certainty in that.

[Moondancer]

He has created Elia Sand who I think already encompasses both aspects and she is more likely than Sansa or Arya to meet Aegon.

She is interested in jousting. Arya wasn't actually interested in jousting. She's just good at horseriding like Lyanna was as Harwin said. But Elia also likes boys and some have already speculated if she may catch Aegon's attention and it could cause problems. Of course that is just wild speculation at this point but she is also a possible Lyanna figure in the next novels. Lyanna herself has a connection with Dorne given the ToJ.

"So you might have a scene where two lords

are drinking a cup of wine and a servant comes in to

pour the wine, and it may be that all our attention is on

the lord, but the serving man is a person too, and from

his point-of-view the story is, "How long will these guys

be talking? My feet hurt. I'm worried about my daughter;

is she fooling around with the stable boy?" I may not put

that in, but sometimes all it takes is a single word or a

single line for a minor character, and suddenly he

emerges as a real person before fading back into the

background."

Surely, the man is there for the cup. But, if he's there for the cup, why the daughter, the mind, his character...?

[Mladen]

I absolutely stand behind my words and if that offends you, I can't help you, Mladene (Or is it the "grow up" part that upsets you?) . The post was made in the most earnest desire to express my own opinion, as blunt as it may seem and that's it. It's hardly the worst thing read on this forum (not that this is an excuse or anything). And if it's incorrect, you're free to prove me wrong.

Using vokativ? :) I am not offended by your opinion, and given the fact that I have heard far worse things, it would be funny to be offended by your belief in that. Nonetheless, that entire post's tone was rather rude and as I have said, I won't deal with that. That's on you. Just for the record, you have not offended me. And I have proven you wrong by pointing that this comparison, in the way me or ShadowCat Rivers see it, is not meant to be Sansa vs Arya, but through the opposition to see what of Lyanna's story we have in Sansa and what in Arya.

Lyanna is a very dead character, who at this point of the narrative is an echo, and can be an intersection of Asha and Dany, for all we know. Please, don't insist on the familiar liaisons as a reason for the greater degree of similarity - I am sure that the same temperament can run in a certain family, however, temperament =/= character, nature (and this seems to be the base for your argument).

Well, family does matter. I am not insisting so much on family as much on narrative, but it would be hard to argue that Lyanna is intersection of Asha and Dany, given that there is no narrative purpose of paralleling these characters, while it has more than enough sense to compare Ned's daughters with Lyanna. Just as we compare Sansa with Ned, Arya with Cat and Brandon and so on... My argument is based on the narrative parallels Sansa and Lyanna shares from the "Bael the bard"-Stark daughter-kidnapped motif to "iron beneath the beauty".

Circumstantial... Who is to say that some another song won't make her teary, moved? Arya has displayed a great deal of emotional force. Look at her reaction for Mycha. Unlikely, at this point, but not impossible and certainly not out of character.

Nope. Arya traveled with the singer, has heard many songs and has constantly been repeating how idiotic are the songs. So, it's not like we have heard Arya once saying for a song that is stupid, it is constant opinion that has been repeated numerous times.

That being said, Arya showing no emotional response during the songs doesn't mean she is emotionless and no one has argued that. At least, I haven't so using that as a reply to me is obsolete.

Which brings me to my point - that no character, fictional or not, should be dismissed and denied originality and most importantly autonomy when it comes to the development or in the case of the living creatures, simply existing (you know when your parent says - "you're just like my dad!"? - that). The idea that a character exist as an example for another character, and that thier personality, colouring, nature, temperament, you name it, is in the story not as an independent creation, whose development is implied rather than outright said, in these books which story is character driven and is eventually about the life itself is simply preposterous.

Well, if you think that it is taking originality from character, then that's on you, but these parallels are very much real and should be acknowledged. Is Tywin's originality taken because Genna said Tyrion is his son, implying that Tyrion shares a lot of Tywin's personality. Has Martin taken any of the originality Ned had when we compare Jon, Robb or Sansa with him? Same with Cat and her children? Absolutely not. There are parallels between characters that ae purposefully made for the sake of the story and none of those represent any sort of "denying originality".

In simpler words, Lyanna is no less of an intersection of other 2 fictional characters than any other RL person in comparison to other RL people. (I'd imagine that if she's indeed an intersection, this occurrence would upgrade fantasy literature to a whole different level, a truly fantastical level.) The tendencies to see the connections, the patterns etc is of the human, biological (our brains always scan for meaningful images - hence Jesus in the toast, for example) to find the meaning, sense, answers(!) that brings us... Satisfaction. And by all means indulge away... But, that's it, really. There's no certainty in that.

Lyanna is not RL person, she is fictional character bound by the narrative rules set by the author. When said intersection, it is meant that Lyanna shares parallels with both Stark girls, and that ignoring aspects of another is ignoring the story Lyanna went through. For example, if you compare her solely to Arya, we would be constricted to the quite sizable amount of her story given that Arya, such as she is, would have never done something like that. Same with Sansa.

As for auto-suggestion, it would be also nice and productive to actually disprove someone's opinion and thus prove your point. Until this moment, I have heard nothing from you that would make the idea of Lyanna paralleling both Ned's daughters wrong. All I have heard is an opinion about what other people has said and not actual proofs that Lyanna doesn't share some narrative parallels with Sansa.

[ARYa_Nym]

Lyanna is a very dead character, who at this point of the narrative is an echo, and can be an intersection of Asha and Dany, for all we know. Please, don't insist on the familiar liaisons as a reason for the greater degree of similarity - I am sure that the same temperament can run in a certain family, however, temperament =/= character, nature (and this seems to be the base for your argument).

I agree with this to some extent since some try to say there's no similarity because Arya will not repeat her actions. She won't repeat Catelyn's actions either.

She's just as unlikely to take up with a married man for romance as she is to marry a lord for duty and become a political adviser to a king. Same with Uncat. She is extremely unlike to start conducting trials before she kills and unlike her she is entirely capable of killing for reasons that have nothing to do with vengeance.

That doesn't mean that there aren't similarities. I only see her mirroring Brandon's actions. Tries to harm crown prince/ignoring laws and that results in other people getting killed. As well as putting oneself in harm's way to save a family member. & Arya's end is more likely to be for the same or similar reason. Her violent nature catches up to her and gets her into trouble she can't get out of. But he's not the only person she can be compared to.

[Queen.Sansa.Lannister]

I like Sansa a lot, as a character of her own merit, but the comparisons to Arya are far, far more common and plentiful:

- Arya and Lyanna are both very good riders.

- Both practice swordsmanship (if you believe all of the Very Strong Lyanna=Weirwood Knight hints) or at least had interest in doing so (Lyanna play-fighting with Benjen in the godswood and Ned's assertion that she'd have wanted to have owned a sword).

- The many assertions that Arya resembles Lyanna (made by Ned, who would know what Lyanna looked like when she was Arya's age)

- Use of the word "stupid" when angry (Lyanna does it in Bran's vision)

- Various personality similarities.

The comparisons between Arya and Lyanna are more plentiful, so doesn't that seem to make them a sort of red herring? Like how Stannis is always called 'Azor Ahai' by Mel but obviously isn't AAR?

And all the comparisons you made above are superficial. Lyanna was very much a romantic like Sansa, and Arya finds that repulsive. Arya is much more similar to her uncle Brandon than any other relative, and to her mother Cat, as well. Sansa, on the other hand, essentially IS Lyanna and Ned.

[Queen.Sansa.Lannister]

Marrying Dany would do that and he can't marry any of his "siblings" if he can't prove to the masses that he's not Ned's son. Targs would marry the next of kin-Targaryen nieces/nephews, aunts/uncles, or cousins if there was no sibling. So the Targ thing to do would be to marry Dany which is what Aegon was trying to do.

Anyways, as to the topic I see the serial killer thing as inmaterial. It's something specific to Arya if one thinks GRRM is pointing in that direction with her ritualistic pattern. No one else in her family is a serial killer. Brandon may have liked killing but nothing points to him being a serial killer. Hoster may have been a Tywin lite but that still is different to a serial killer. Catelyn only killed in self defense and one person when she went mad so she can't qualify either. Uncat is N/A. She also works in a big group which a serial killer wouldn't do. Edmure is sweet. Lysa only killed one person. Ned killed in battle and deserters so he also doesn't apply. If Benjen killed anyone as a First Ranger it would have been in a scenario that also doesn't apply.

Same thing about her not being interested in sex/romance. Cat experimented when she was Arya's age and was very interested and possibly in love with Ned. Ned returned her affections.Lysa was like that with LF. Brandon liked sex/women. The same with Edmure.

Arya's lack of interest is something specific to her. Also, no other family member is using sex and murder which is a serial killer thing to do. That doesn't mean she can't have similarities with any of them and Lyanna specifically.

But according to Ned Lyanna is not someone you want to be like anyways.

I don't see Sansa being with a man who he has a wife and infant kids. Also, Sansa is supposed to be good at politics according to the fandom but Lyanna and Rhaegar's actions show political naivety. Also, perhaps a lack of political knowledge. Look at Alicent. She turned on Viserys' other wife's kid. Visenya killed Rhaenys' son Aenys and supported Maegor killing Aenys' son.

So if one wants to say well Lyanna wasn't a serial killer well nothing shows she had a mind for politics either. That would be Catelyn and Hoster Tully.

I suppose what I'm meaning to say is that on a character level, Sansa and Lyanna are more alike, with the romantic tendencies. Sansa, however, is smarter. Arya had the "wolf's blood" like Lyanna, but grew to become drastically different. Sansa, as it stands, is still quite a bit like Lyanna, whereas Arya has only her looks now, and the wildness that she also could have gotten from Brandon, a relative she is much more like than Lyanna.

So basically, Lyanna is what Sansa would have become if she had Arya's "wolf's blood" and grew up in peacetime, therefore leaving her romanticism and political naïveté intact.

[Queen.Sansa.Lannister]

I won't deal with rudeness of its post, but of its incorrectness. Lyanna certainly represents intersection of both sisters. It is easily to say that she is much more like Arya due to the physical appearance Ned pointed out early in the story, plus the "wolf blood" they shared. But, that certainly doesn't take any of the resemblance Lyanna and her story has with Sansa. From the entire crying during songs (anyone can imagine Arya doing so?) to the parallels regarding Bael the bard story, to falling in love with the Prince and the deaths to the family it brought. Ignoring these parallels is actually ignoring huge chunks of Lyanna's story which we can't compare to Arya.

So, I will stick to the text and resemblances to the both sisters Lyanna has. For undoubtedly, Lyanna did some things Arya, such as she is, would never do. We can ignore that, or we can accept that the different motifs of Lyanna's story have found their place in two Ned's daughters.

This, just so much this. I couldn't defend my OP better than this.

[ARYa_Nym]

The comparisons between Arya and Lyanna are more plentiful, so doesn't that seem to make them a sort of red herring? Like how Stannis is always called 'Azor Ahai' by Mel but obviously isn't AAR?

And all the comparisons you made above are superficial. Lyanna was very much a romantic like Sansa, and Arya finds that repulsive. Arya is much more similar to her uncle Brandon than any other relative, and to her mother Cat, as well. Sansa, on the other hand, essentially IS Lyanna and Ned.

Arya doesn't mirror Lyanna in this respect but she does not mirror Brandon or Catelyn either.

Brandon slept around. GRRM said it's possible that he has bastards. He's the most likely for the father of Ashara Dayne's child and he slept with Barbrey. He liked deflowering maidens. Arya on the other hand behaves like an asexual which is the complete opposite of his behavior. You didn't mention Edmure but he was also this way. Cat said he probably has bastards about the place. It seems like Brandon's promiscuous nature is an important aspect to his character given the focus on it and the fire vs. mud speech.

When Cat was Arya's age she was playing kissing games and showed actual interest in it unlike Arya. She may have not been romantic but her behavior and development was normal unlike Arya's behavior in her latest chapter. She listened to her father and married for her family like she was supposed to. Arya on the other hand is staying with a group that says this can never happen. She's unlikely to settle down and become lady of a house for duty and have a bunch of children even if she leaves. She has no interest in romance like Lyanna did but she has no interest in marriage and children either unlike Cat. Even Brandon was going to do his duty and marry.

ETA: Cat was passionate for Ned and wanted to give him another child in AGoT. She never had Arya's detached clinical nature. As I said Cat was normal. A little girl is going to be curious at the age she was when she played kissing games. A normal little girl is not going to only see it as a tool to murder someone. Only Arya is like that.

Lyanna was defined by romance. Catelyn was defined by motherhood. Both are things that are extremely unlikely for Arya especially if she dies in ADoS.

[Mithras]

Brandon slept around. GRRM said it's possible that he has bastards. He's the most likely for the father of Ashara Dayne's child and he slept with Barbrey.

I think that was in fact Barbrey's sister and Brandon was Domeric's biological father.

[Moondancer]

Nonetheless, that entire post's tone was rather rude and as I have said, I won't deal with that. That's on you. Just for the record, you have not offended me.

I'd describe it as rant-ish and snippy, which was my intention. You can ignore it...

but it would be hard to argue that Lyanna is intersection of Asha and Dany, given that there is no narrative purpose of paralleling these characters,

Did you read the quote I've provided? The man has little (next to nothing) narrative value, and yet it doesn't stop him from having integrity and auto-purpose.

Nope. Arya traveled with the singer, has heard many songs and has constantly been repeating how idiotic are the songs. So, it's not like we have heard Arya once saying for a song that is stupid, it is constant opinion that has been repeated numerous times.

Arya objected to the themes of the song, rather than the art of music and thus reveling her own issues in regards to them. That would be GRRM implying and not saying.

Well, if you think that it is taking originality from character, then that's on you, but these parallels are very much real and should be acknowledged. (...) are parallels between characters that are purposefully made for the sake of the story and none of those represent any sort of "denying originality".

Real? Nope. You make them real, people who observe them. From the narrative point of view, it's a spot open to interpretation. To make you think... To address the questions that needs addressing without the expectancy of a true answer.

Lyanna is not RL person, she is fictional character bound by the narrative rules set by the author. When said intersection, it is meant that Lyanna shares parallels with both Stark girls, and that ignoring aspects of another is ignoring the story Lyanna went through. For example, if you compare her solely to Arya, we would be constricted to the quite sizable amount of her story given that Arya, such as she is, would have never done something like that. Same with Sansa.

I am very well aware of Lyanna's fictional status, thank you. I think I repeated that a few times, "real or not". And if you take into consideration that GRRM, the writer of the story, takes the issue of realism (refer to the quote) so seriously, you could understand my point.

For example, I think that Jon - Dany romantic connection could be a mirror to Lyanna & Rhaegar; a romance from 2 PoV to illuminate on the matter that happened years before the present story, in order to feel the issue in a more intimate matter. But, that's me, I've made the connection and unless GRRM says, yes, I made that to show this, anyone can slap me with a counterargument. However, in no circumstance would I claim those parallel real, as you point it, or just a narrative device, thus compromising the integrity of the character.

Just like in RL (we draw our inspiration from RL, you know, hence the realism) you couldn't claim that somebody exists for/because of somebody/something, same happens when you venture into characterisation.

Admittedly, much of my annoyance is triggered by the fans' attitude. And given the level of personal investment when it comes to art, and in general "you can't tell me how to read" (which is as good retort as they get), there's no remedy for that sort of annoyance. However, is it too much to ask for a thorough discussion? My arguments are based in the notions of what is/isn't possible to know, the purpose, the creation... But, no.

As for auto-suggestion, it would be also nice and productive to actually disprove someone's opinion and thus prove your point.

I am disproving it by saying you cannot prove any of the parallels fans chirp on, with the philosophical backup, as in it is impossible.

Until this moment, I have heard nothing from you that would make the idea of Lyanna paralleling both Ned's daughters wrong. All I have heard is an opinion about what other people has said and not actual proofs that Lyanna doesn't share some narrative parallels with Sansa.

Actual proof would be GRRM saying yeah, I place them parallels intentionally, because the same things happen in RL and you know how much I care for the realism.

GRRM said on multiple occasions that he likes when fans discuss the storyline - and most importantly - He likes asking questions that he deems worthy discussing without actually providing a definite answer.

George, do the old gods exist? - Does God exist?

George, is Lyanna a perfect mixture of Sansa and Arya? - Are you a perfect mix of your ancestors/descendants?

George, but but - the parallels!! - The parallels may or may not exist, just like in RL, because realism.

Is the existence of Elia Sand a narrative device? No. Is the fact that she's 14 and capable of jousting a narrative device? Perhaps. Will see face someone while on horse, with a spear? Perhaps... And then somebody goes - GRRM created Elia because of Lyanna! No. He created Elia for Elia and if it happens that Elia shares a parallel or two with Lyanna, it's the part of GRRM's way of implying, storytelling. You can use the fact about Elia without any additional presumption.

In short, characters are not Chekov's guns.

[ShadowCat Rivers]

The comparisons between Arya and Lyanna are more plentiful, so doesn't that seem to make them a sort of red herring? Like how Stannis is always called 'Azor Ahai' by Mel but obviously isn't AAR?

Red herring to what? Do you believe that Lyanna's story is going to be repeated with Sansa as the main female actor?

If that's the case, Moondancer might have a point in that the characters "exist for their own sake". Sansa as a character has not gone that far only to become a Lyanna 2.0. Her story will be her own.

[Moondancer]

Lyanna was defined by romance. Catelyn was defined by motherhood.

Cat could be also defined by her sex, given that you can't be a mother unless you're female. So, primarily defined by her sex.

Definitions are as tricky as labels, but if I were to express myself regarding this subject, I'd say it's the action that is essential to he definitions. Cat chose to be a mom, working ovaries or not. But, boy, she's carnal too. She's a wife too. She's Cat, defined by her name. Proud. GRRM, interestingly, says Cerseis defined by her pride.

Also, there's something about the finality that could be important - how the character ended their life. When somebody is gone, it's just a glance away from thier biography to make a call on thier life. In this light, you could argue that Lyanna is defined by her choice to elope (or whatever is the case). A 16 year old who spent her childhood much alike the other girls of her status, nothing special there, lovely girl, lovely daughter - bam, here comes the tourney, and everything is changed, everything becomes secondary to that 1 year that she spent with Rhaegar, in retrospective, not hindsight (choices, actions, priorities etc assume hindsight).

So, is she defined by her action/choice which happens to be of this or that nature (here, romantic) , or simply by romance? Did she define herself or was she defined by something? Was she branded, like a cattle, or did she choose her tattoo? (just bear with me :D ) Did she make a choice, or in the end, it was chosen for her, vis maior and all?

[ShadowCat Rivers]

...

So, is she defined by her action/choice which happens to be of this or that nature (here, romantic) , or simply by romance? Did she define herself or was she defined by something? Was she branded, like a cattle, or did she choose her tattoo? (just bear with me :D ) Did she make a choice, or in the end, it was chosen for her, vis maior and all?

Here lies the narrative necessity of parallels IMO and the reason I think it's wrong to dismiss their importance.

Cat was a main character and a POV, she could speak for herself so to say. But the questions you pose about Lyanna cannot be definitely answered. Possible answers can be hinted at through the parallels that are put there for this purpose, IMO.

[hardhome]

Arya and Sansa are yin-yang, they want the thing the other doesn't.

As to Lyanna's personality we still have too little information.

Very few POV characters have had actual/potential interactions with her, and only the most bias one Ned has internal monologued about her much.

Barristan, Jamie, and maybe Jon Con are the more objective sources and so far not much from them has been said (nothing in Jon Con's case)

[RedShirt47]

I agree that both girls have a bit of their aunt in them, but there is one key difference between Arya and Lyanna that everyone seems to be missing, puberty. Dispite the fact that she has had to experience certain things only a grownup should, Arya is still a child. We don't have much of an idea of what Lyanna was like at that age, or what Arya might be like in five years time. Ned however, does know.

I agree with with.

Had Arya been able to grow up normally she would have developed an interest in boys and her romantic side would have shown. She might well have acted like her aunt and eloped with some knight who caught her fancy. She would likely have not been too keen on being married off to some noble house to build an alliance or for some political reasons.

obviously her life has gone down a very different direction and might never get back on track. Would be nice if someday Arya could have a somewhat normal life.

[UtherSnow]

Sansa and Lyanna are more similar than Arya and Lyanna are.

Also, who seems destined to marry/be courted by a Targaryen? Sansa, with Aegon (who I think is fake but whatever). Who actually had a relationship with/might have married a Targ? Lyanna.

Discuss!

There's a wider answer that incorporates Lyanna's spirit and attitude. Sansa and Arya are opposite sides of a coin. You can divide Lyanna's attributes between them. I can see the obvious with Sansa but you miss the side that's seen in Arya.

Aegon is not Targaryen because of those around him. (Leaving aside the fake debate.) The Golden Company is a Blackfyre-founded organisation. JonCon is a former, and disgraced, member of TGC. Could they have an older dragon, like Sheepstealer? (It's a muddy kind of brown, so, basically, camouflaged.)

[Moondancer]

But the questions you pose about Lyanna cannot be definitely answered. Possible answers can be hinted at through the parallels that are put there for this purpose, IMO.

I am not asking for that kind of answer - I find it necessary to those kind of questions asked. Maybe I shouldn't have used "?"...Rhetorical and all that jazz.

So, you say that parallels among characters serve the purpose of some sort of alternative, parallel universe? What would happen if X happened instead of Y? If X happened to Lyanna, you'll see Sansa in Y situation?