The valonqar poisons Cersei w/ the Strangler?

[Ocelot]

The valonqar is supposed to wrap his/her hands around Cersei's throat & strangle her to death. This seems odd, b/c strangling someone is a slow and difficult (for the killer) way to kill someone, rather than using a weapon or poison. One would also have to be fairly strong w/ large hands to strangle Cersei to death w/ no rope or anything. So I thought: the valonqar will poison Cersei w/ the Strangler. My guess is that the valonqar will be Arya, who probably wouldn't be able to kill Cersei w/ her bare hands, possibly working w/ Sansa, who I think is the younger & more beautiful queen. Certainly the Stark girls have the most motive, and Sansa is learning to be a player in the Game & Arya is learning to be an assassin. What do you think?

[40 Thousand Skeletons]

Since I always thought Jaime would kill her, maybe he poisons her?

[Capt Captain]

Didn't the prophecy say she will have the life choked out of her or something along those lines? either way I think Arya's first assignment will be to kill someone in King's Landing but she kills Cersei while she's there. Maybe she does use the Strangler but it hits the wrong target.

[pobeb]

It is a very interesting idea - here are my findings:

Tyrion's prophetic warning:

"... A day will come when you think yourself safe and happy, and suddenly your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth, and you’ll know the debt is paid.”

How "The Strangler" is made:

It was made from a certain plant that grew only on the islands of the Jade Sea, half a world away. The leaves had to be aged, and soaked in a wash of limes and sugar water and certain rare spices from the Summer Isles. Afterward they could be discarded, but the potion must be thickened with ash and allowed to crystallize.

Maggy:

And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you.

[pobeb]

And, unfortunately, valonquar does indeed mean "brother". We have 2 cases in which it is explained - the first is when Cersei confirms it with her septa, the second is here:

“Your Grace,” the Tyroshi murmured, bowing low, “I see you are as lovely as the tales. Even beyond the narrow sea we have heard of your great beauty, and the grief that tears your gentle heart. No man can restore your brave young son to you, but it is my hope I can at least offer you some balm for your pain.” He laid his hand upon his chest. “I bring you justice. I bring you the head of your valonqar.”

[pobeb]

Further evidence that Cersei dies by the strangler:

The valonqar shall wrap his hands about your throat, the queen heard, but the voice did not belong to the old woman. The hands emerged from the mists of her dream and coiled around her neck; thick hands, and strong. Above them floated his face, leering down at her with his mismatched eyes. No, the queen tried to cry out, but the dwarf’s fingers dug deep into her neck, choking off her protests. She kicked and screamed to no avail. Before long she was making the same sound her son had made, the terrible thin sucking sound that marked Joff’s last breath on earth.

Cersei imagines herself dying exactly like Joffrey - who was killed by the Strangler.

[pobeb]

The main question is - do you take Maggy's foretelling as literal or metaphorical?

There are obvious literal things involved - Cersei becoming Queen, Cersei marrying Roebrt, the number of children both Cersei and Robert foster, and Cersei's children having "golden crowns" (hair)

But then there's the main line in question, which cannot be taken literally:

And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you.

You can't drown (die by suffocation due to submersion or inhalation of water) and then die again from "the valonqar" choking you to death.

So, does "the valonqar" literally wrap his hands around her throat? Or is this perhaps a metaphor for some "little brother" causing her death by choking?

Maybe when Sandor, the little brother, defeats unGregor in the trial by combat - Cersei drinks The Strangler instead of being judged and sentenced. Is there precedent for her being suicidal in the face of impending judgement and doom? Certainly:

“Stannis may take the city and he may take the throne, but I will not suffer him to judge me. I do not mean for him to have us alive.”

[I'm the Party Pooper]

someone else tried this route not long time ago, like a month or two, and his theory hot totally debunked..

.. you should use the search function.

[pobeb]

someone else tried this route not long time ago, like a month or two, and his theory hot totally debunked..

.. you should use the search function.

That's actually not what that thread was about. In that instance, the OP was analyzing the prophecy and suggesting that Cersei didn't need to die before her children.

You're right, using the search function is helpful. Given that it's your suggestion, I'm wondering why you didn't try it yourself.

Also, no other theory includes Tyrion's prophecy of Cersei dying with ashes in her mouth, and the strangler being made from ashes. Which, to me, seems very important.

[I'm the Party Pooper]

You're right, using the search function is helpful. Given that it's your suggestion, I'm wondering why you didn't try it yourself.

Woah, calm down... mine was a polite suggestion in the hope to be helpful, that's all. Could I do the extra work and give him the link? Might be that I could - despite being stuck on an uncomfortable phone - , but why does that come out as a duty to you?! /OT

The possibility of the strangler is one minor interpretation view of the prophecy. To my own point of view, based on occam's razor, there should be no particular hast in this direction.

[pobeb]

Woah, calm down...

I am calm. You're the one who told the OP:

.. you should use the search function.

When his post clearly doesn't follow what you're suggesting. Which I calmly explained to you.

[FireAndBlood.]

I'd also suggest using the "edit" button instead of double - or in this case quadruple - posting.

[pobeb]

I'd also suggest using the "edit" button instead of double - or in this case quadruple - posting.

Thanks, I'll remember next time.

[40 Thousand Skeletons]

But would Jaime use the Strangler? I just always thought it was a classic GRRM thing to be like 'Cersei will be killed by her little brother' and you think well Tyrion, duh. But then it is subtley mentioned that Jaime is younger as well.

EDIT: My points being that I think the ashes connection is really cool, and I don't think Tyrion will kill Cersei.

[mb2518]

Tyrion may have signed Cersei's death warrant, when he told Aegon to go to Westeros, instead of meeting up with Dany. The play with the dragons couldn't have been any more obvious foreshadowing.

[pobeb]

But would Jaime use the Strangler? I just always thought it was a classic GRRM thing to be like 'Cersei will be killed by her little brother' and you think well Tyrion, duh. But then it is subtley mentioned that Jaime is younger as well.

EDIT: My points being that I think the ashes connection is really cool, and I don't think Tyrion will kill Cersei.

I don't think Tyrion kills her either. Valonqar definitely means "brother", but I don't know if it necessarily means "younger brother".

[monkeyarmour]

This is very interesting. With this in mind, I now think that Lady Olenna will kill Cersei because she killed Joffery to protect Margaery and since Cersei is the biggest threat to her it'll be a logical solution. A very clever one. Everyone believes that Tyrion killed Joffery with The Strangler, so it'll be the perfect cover up to blame Tyrion and since no one in Kingslanding knows where he is it will be very easy to convince people that he did it.

[Tyrion the Perfect]

Or why cant Tommen be manipulated into using the strangler by Margery.I think the little guy may have the hots for her.

[Farwynds Oceanseer]

I think Jamie will twist the Hand's necklace around Cercei's throat, but the possibilities are endless. Stannis is an acceptable possibility, and Arya perhaps if the FM nickname her "Valonqar" as some have hypothesized. One sick possibility: To put Monkeyarmor and TtP's suggestions together: Olenna poisons Cercei to protect Margaery. And if Aegon or another pretender is looking better than Tommen, she might arrange for Tommen (Joffrey's valonqar) to serve both Cercei and himself a cupful of Strangler. The knife twist is strongest if Cercei is killed by someone she trusts and loves (inasmuch as she is capable of love and trust). Jamie or Tommen, perhaps with Arya or Lady Oleana pulling the strings, would be the most powerful knife-twisters (or stranglers). Tommen might well be the harshest possibility for Valonqar: just as she thinks herself safe, Tommen starts to choke like Joffrey, and then she dies as well, with ashes in her mouth. Then the younger, more beautiful queen appears and takes everything.

[Ocelot]

Using the Strangler would overcome Jaime's handicap (having only one hand) and Tyrion's (being a dwarf who probably can't even reach Cersei's throat with his hands and could probably be overpowered by her).