Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted September 1, 2014 Author Share Posted September 1, 2014 @Toblaiki, yea there is a lot of fat. But, the way this series has been written, it like you have to have it. I understand its sometimes grudging to read, but it's what makes it Malazan also. I am really enjoying the Barghast plot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamjm Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 My only issue was that, even more than the other books, this one could have used some trimming. I feel like it could have been cut down by about 20%. I love the Malazan soldiers, but they really didn't do much in the first half despite so much time being devoted to them. A lot of it was amusing but really could have been trimmed. I did think the Malazans took an excessively long time to start on their journey in this book. From what I remember I think it wasn't until about 500 pages into the book that they actually marched out of Letheras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Also, the Barghast storyline is pretty harrowing, but despite being hard to read, it is pretty impactful, and that makes him a great author. No kidding. The hobbling chapter has to be one of the most powerful things I have ever read, and I mean that in a terrible but positive way. http://www.tor.com/blogs/2014/03/malazan-reread-of-the-fallen-on-hetan-the-barghast-and-the-portrayal-of-torture-in-fantasy-fiction Steven Erikson's discussion with us on that chapter was very interesting and added a new dimension to my understanding of the book and TCG as the ending of the whole ten-book story arc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 The hobbling thing was awful and in no way positive, in my eyes. Came out of nowhere, in a series that had previously been notable for being pretty strong on the 'no sexist bullshit' front, and whatever point it was trying to make it just went waaaaaaaaaay too far. Probably the single worst part of the series. The fact that SE writes it really well makes it even worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toblakai Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Okay everyone, this is somewhat spoilerish. But Erikson definitely had a point. Go to the link Wilbur posted. Do not click on the link if you haven't read through about 2/3 of DoD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jussi Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Fall of Light (US edition) has been pushed back to September 2015: http://edelweiss.abovethetreeline.com/ProductDetailPage.aspx?group=related&sku=0765323575 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 I'd complain, but since I very much suspect that the second half of the main series, and the timeline therein, was weaker at least in part because SE was rushing to meet the yearly deadline he'd set himself, I'm totally fine with him now taking the time to get things fully right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted September 3, 2014 Author Share Posted September 3, 2014 The hobbling thing was awful and in no way positive, in my eyes. Came out of nowhere, in a series that had previously been notable for being pretty strong on the 'no sexist bullshit' front, and whatever point it was trying to make it just went waaaaaaaaaay too far. Probably the single worst part of the series. The fact that SE writes it really well makes it even worse.I will, another 100 pages. I knew it as coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted September 5, 2014 Author Share Posted September 5, 2014 DoD spoiler after reading about Hetan's hobbling and subsequently reading the For link. I think I have to agree with @worrywort, who said in the comments. That even though it was hard to read and really brought out a lot of emotions, it was used a way to convey to us, the reader, that these things do happen. And they still happen to this day. I don't think SE got any satisfaction out of writing the scene. He never went into all the fine details of it. But, that being said, toughest part of the series to read so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toblakai Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 DoD spoiler after reading about Hetan's hobbling and subsequently reading the For link. I think I have to agree with @worrywort, who said in the comments. That even though it was hard to read and really brought out a lot of emotions, it was used a way to convey to us, the reader, that these things do happen. And they still happen to this day. I don't think SE got any satisfaction out of writing the scene. He never went into all the fine details of it. But, that being said, toughest part of the series to read so far.Yes, despite what happens, the description is minimal. All the horror just comes from the ideas and implications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Yes, despite what happens, the description is minimal. All the horror just comes from the ideas and implications. I dunno. I just really didn't think it added much to the story. Especially since it all gets hand waved away in the end for a quasi happy ending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toblakai Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 I dunno. I just really didn't think it added much to the story.Especially since it all gets hand waved away in the end for a quasi happy ending.Isn't a large portion of Malazan extraneous shit? It's part of the fun. But in this case, it wasn't fun at all and makes people uncomfortable. Anyone who thinks it was unnecessary should read Erikson's thoughts in the link several posts back. You might still disagree but will at least understand why he chose to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted September 5, 2014 Author Share Posted September 5, 2014 @ Rhom, if Bakker wrote that scene, do you think it would be a little more graphic and do you think black semen would come into play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Reckoner Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Funniest side characters? I love Tellorast and Curdle. Also, do the Shake have reptilian features secondary to K'Chain ancestry? My thoughts on the hobbling Throughout the event, and the rest of the Barghast storyline, I couldn't help be wonder if there was a deep-rooted fear among the individuals of the tribe that "I could be next" that contributed to both sexes' participation. It is almost as if the Barghast living in fear under their social structure, chose to lash out at it through the hobbling of Hetan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted September 5, 2014 Author Share Posted September 5, 2014 Funniest side characters? I love Tellorast and Curdle. Also, do the Shake have reptilian features secondary to K'Chain ancestry? My thoughts on the hobbling Throughout the event, and the rest of the Barghast storyline, I couldn't help be wonder if there was a deep-rooted fear among the individuals of the tribe that "I could be next" that contributed to both sexes' participation. It is almost as if the Barghast living in fear under their social structure, chose to lash out at it through the hobbling of Hetan.I got that just what happens when a unwanted leader is disposed of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted September 5, 2014 Author Share Posted September 5, 2014 Funniest side characters? I love Tellorast and Curdle. Also, do the Shake have reptilian features secondary to K'Chain ancestry? My thoughts on the hobbling Throughout the event, and the rest of the Barghast storyline, I couldn't help be wonder if there was a deep-rooted fear among the individuals of the tribe that "I could be next" that contributed to both sexes' participation. It is almost as if the Barghast living in fear under their social structure, chose to lash out at it through the hobbling of Hetan.I was wondering the same about the shake, but from descriptions, I gather they favor the Tiste Andii. And funniest characters, come on.....Tehol and Bugg!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry. Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 Isn't a large portion of Malazan extraneous shit? It's part of the fun. But in this case, it wasn't fun at all and makes people uncomfortable. Anyone who thinks it was unnecessary should read Erikson's thoughts in the link several posts back. You might still disagree but will at least understand why he chose to do it. I don't want to spoil things too much, so I'll keep this as vague as I can, but thinking back on it, I could see scenes like this having a thematic resonance in The Crippled God. I'd also add the Tenescrowi (sp.? don't have books at hand) from MoI as well as the events from TtH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted September 6, 2014 Author Share Posted September 6, 2014 I have a feeling it will in some way be symbolic to what happens to TCG. Here's my thought from what I got from foreshadowing.Obviously, the elder gods are working to chain the TCG again. While at the same time the weakest of the bunch The Errant (and his alliance) is trying to destroy the new Warrens (Krul's blood,), at the same time. And I have the sneaky suspicion the outcome will be the newer and living (Icarium, Karsa, Dassem, K'razz, Bonehunters,) gods will come out on top maybe protecting Krul's blood or creating new warrens. Just my theory from what I read. Say BH will take over hood. Icarium the jaghut. Dassem will be Dassem. Shadowthrone + Cotillion keep a whole shadow. Rake has returned to Mother dark. Brood, the new Burn....etc, etc. Maybe, maybe not, but I'd like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted September 6, 2014 Author Share Posted September 6, 2014 I have a feeling it will in some way be symbolic to what happens to TCG. Here's my thought from what I got from foreshadowing.Obviously, the elder gods are working to chain the TCG again. While at the same time the weakest of the bunch The Errant (and his alliance) is trying to destroy the new Warrens (Krul's blood,), at the same time. And I have the sneaky suspicion the outcome will be the newer and living (Icarium, Karsa, Dassem, K'razz, Bonehunters,) gods will come out on top maybe protecting Krul's blood or creating new warrens. Just my theory from what I read. Say Bridgeburners will take over hood. Icarium the jaghut. Dassem will be Dassem. Shadowthrone + Cotillion keep a whole shadow. Rake has returned to Mother dark. Brood, the new Burn....etc, etc. Maybe, maybe not, but I'd like it.ETA: Malazan's will, I'm sure will have a huge role and make it through. The human spirit will live on.ETA: sorry bout double post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghjhero Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 Iskaral Pust is easily the funniest character in the books! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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