Dagger and Coin II: Spoilers through The Spider's War

[williamjm]

I do think of Vanai. He is haunted by it, but murdering a city full of people is beyond any mere guilt he feels about his deed.

He also doesn't seem to be all that haunted by it, considering the scale of the crime, he's a bit regretful but doesn't seem to show much genuine guilt. When he thinks of it he usually mentioned the woman he saw burning to death and doesn't think much of the people he didn't see, it feels like much of the regret is due to him having to see some of the consequences of his actions rather than it all happening at a distance.

[Altherion]

He also doesn't seem to be all that haunted by it, considering the scale of the crime, he's a bit regretful but doesn't seem to show much genuine guilt. When he thinks of it he usually mentioned the woman he saw burning to death and doesn't think much of the people he didn't see, it feels like much of the regret is due to him having to see some of the consequences of his actions rather than it all happening at a distance.

I'm re-reading the entire series and I just got to this part. He is very remorseful of his actions... but not for long. It's not entirely his fault though: the problem is that Geder heads back to Camnipol fully expecting condemnation and instead, Dawson Kalliam and his allies throw him the biggest party anyone from House Palliako has ever seen and praise him for being bold and decisive. Even his father doesn't have the heart to tell him that what he did was monstrous.

[polishgenius]

Just finished. Loved it. This is really where the series kicks into high gear, although being what it is, it's aimed itself in a different direction than the rest of the pack.


Everyone's mentioning Geder (and I'll get to him), but I've gotta say, my favourite character in the series is Clara. She's a lot more straightforward, with little of the complexity other characters show, but just as Geder is a demonstration of how villains can be basically ordinary people, Clara shows how an ordinary person can be just as heroic as any badass sword-waving rescue-merchant. She gets things done quietly, behind the scenes, with little everyday acts of courage and compassion.

I also loved the completely casual, irreverent treatment of Inys. Here's a dragon, former master of the world, majestic beast of fire, and he's basically an emo teenager. Good reasons to be emo, but still, the first thing he does is go on a drunken bender and then he spends much of the rest of the time sulking. The interactions between him and Marcus are great (and by far the most interesting thing Marcus has done so far in the series).

I think it possible that him and Kit will have to die together. While he's not a threat in the same way as the spiders, he's just as much going to be an impediment to the desired peace for humanity.

On Geder: he was just starting to lose me a bit at the beginning, I was thinking he's become a more ordinary villain, but then the baby thing happened and reminded me of all his painfully recognisable complexities. So many of his traits are awfully recognisable, as people are saying.

[brook]

I could gush forever about how much I love that Clara's character exists.

Aside from everything else you say just the fact that an older woman (a grandmother, if a young one) is shown to be both sexual and desirable without being some sort of 'wicked woman/temptress' stereotype is something rare enough in fantasy (or any other literature really) that I'd be happy for her existence without anything else.

The fact that she is also both brave and intelligent and yet as you said ordinary just makes her even better.

[Darth Richard II]

Fantasy needs more drunk dragons.

[brook]

Everything needs more drunk dragons

[Mack Kilimaro]

Fantasy needs more drunk dragons.

Maybe George needs talking, drunk dragons. Drunk Drogon could get Daenerys to Westeros so much faster!

The writing of Inys in this book is another one of those great re-imagining of the standard trope as well. Good call pointing that one out.

[Underfoot]

I could gush forever about how much I love that Clara's character exists.

Aside from everything else you say just the fact that an older woman (a grandmother, if a young one) is shown to be both sexual and desirable without being some sort of 'wicked woman/temptress' stereotype is something rare enough in fantasy (or any other literature really) that I'd be happy for her existence without anything else.

The fact that she is also both brave and intelligent and yet as you said ordinary just makes her even better.

Completely agree. Clara is easily my favorite character in the series, and probably one of my all-time favorite characters.

[MisterOJ]

Oh, hi board.

So I finished Widow's House last night. And I found it fantastic like pretty much everyone else. I think my favorite scene was the one where Kit met with the breakaway spider priests. When they realized he wasn't lying when he called them on their shit was great. And then, of course, when Inys torched them was pretty cool too.

Really looking forward to the final book now.

[Rhom]

Oh, hi board.

So I finished Widow's House last night. And I found it fantastic like pretty much everyone else. I think my favorite scene was the one where Kit met with the breakaway spider priests. When they realized he wasn't lying when he called them on their shit was great. And then, of course, when Inys torched them was pretty cool too.

Really looking forward to the final book now.

That was another favorite of mine. Really quite telling when you consider just how many good scenes there are in the book.

[illrede]

Oh, hi board.

So I finished Widow's House last night. And I found it fantastic like pretty much everyone else. I think my favorite scene was the one where Kit met with the breakaway spider priests. When they realized he wasn't lying when he called them on their shit was great. And then, of course, when Inys torched them was pretty cool too.

Really looking forward to the final book now.

Here's a thought; imagine the plot if the convoluted chain of events that led to Inys being right there, right then hadn't happened.

[Tears of Lys]

Another Inys part I really liked was where Marcus and Kit are talking to him and Inys says something about spawning a bunch of progeny, hatchling dragons, and Kit and Marcus kind of give each other a look like, "Oh, yeah, THAT'S a great idea." That's all the human folk would need is to be instantly relegated back to being slaves to ruling dragons to breed as they chose, or kill, or do basically whatever they wanted with them.

And I do love Clara - more so, frankly, than Cithrin. Cithrin's alcoholism, while understandable, makes me a bit impatient with her. Unfair, I know. If only she hadn't boozed it up and had sex with Geder...

ETA: How is everyone pronouncing "Enys" in their mind? Like "IN-NIS" or "I-NIS"? or "E-NIS?

I always say his name as "Innis," but I'm not sure if that's how Daniel Abraham intends it.

[polishgenius]

I say it like 'innit', but with an s instead of a t. Innit.

That's all the human folk would need is to be instantly relegated back to being slaves to ruling dragons to breed as they chose, or kill, or do basically whatever they wanted with them.

This is why I think Inys will have to die by the end.

[Rhom]

I've been saying "Eye-nis" in my head. :dunno:

This might be the perfect time for the summon author spell! Or perhaps if REG heard him talk about it at all when he was at the book signing for Cibola Burn a couple months back. :dunno:

[DanielAbraham]

I pronounce it IN-iss (rhymes with GIN-hiss), but I don't claim any particular privilege on the question. He won't object, whatever you call him.

[Tears of Lys]

Gods help us if he does! :P

[karaddin]

I pronounce it IN-iss (rhymes with GIN-hiss), but I don't claim any particular privilege on the question. He won't object, whatever you call him.

I didn't buy this with Geder and I don't with Inys either, I'm not risking mispronouncing the name of someone prickly and powerful!

[Mr. X]

I didn't buy this with Geder and I don't with Inys either, I'm not risking mispronouncing the name of someone prickly and powerful!

Yeah, I'm totally with you on this one.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

I pronounced Inys correctly. Yaaaah me. :P

[Underfoot]

I pronounce it IN-iss (rhymes with GIN-hiss), but I don't claim any particular privilege on the question. He won't object, whatever you call him.

Yes! I've been doing it right too!!!