Game Of Thrones Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 I see many people in this forum who aren't disgusted at all by the idea of the Frey Pies. Some people even think Manderly was right to eat the Freys. OK, so Rhaegar, Symond, and Jared are very unsympathetic people, and we're supposed to cheer when they die. But Rhaegar had three children, aged 14, 11, and 9. Rhaegar's wife, Jeyne Beesbury, is already dead, so Wyman orphaned three innocent children. We know from Merrett's epilogue that Freys do not trust half-siblings. Now, Rhaegar's children have no close relatives in the Twins: their uncle is an outlaw and their great-aunt is married to Ser Leslyn Haigh. What will happen to these three children when Old Walder dies? Symond had three children. Alesander Frey is a singer, and Cat grows wary when she learns Alesander, Olyvar, and Perwyn aren't at the Red Wedding. This suggests that Alesander was a decent person, and that he was one of the Freys who were close to Robb or Cat, like Olyvar or Perwyn. And Robb's own bannerman killed his father. We know almost nothing about Symond's youngest son Bradamar, an 11-year-old, but we do know that he is a ward in Braavos so he knew nothing about the RW. As a ward, Bradamar probably didn't know his father very well, and then Wyman killed his father, before they could ever know each other well. Wyman killed the Freys because of the Red Wedding. Well, how is killing unsuspecting guests at a wedding any more horrible than killing unsuspecting guests people on a road? Two wrongs don't make a right, and what Wyman did was illegal and was therefore technically murder, no matter what his (understandable) motivations were. Also note that Wyman fed Fat Walda her own brothers. Fat Walda is a jolly woman and though she did know about the Red Wedding, she didn't really participate in the slaughter. Did Wyman really have to feed her human flesh? And since the Peasebury men were killed for cannibalism, cannibalism is probably a crime. So while Wyman kills Freys for a crime they committed, he is committing a crime himself. ETA: Actually, I should have been more careful with the title. I actually wanted a thread where we could discuss whether Wyman was right to eat the Freys, but people are pointing out the obvious, which is that the RW caused more suffering than the pies. I changed the title, but the original title wasFrey Pies were as wrong as the RW Which is not very true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen of Whores Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Agreed. It was a disgusting act that, while not worse in a numerical sense, was just - if more so - as disgusting morally. It's kind of disturbing when people hail it as a badass and cheer-worthy moment. It wasn't justice, it was pure vengeance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RainGhost Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 I found the Frey pies sickening but I won't deny that I also thought it was a brilliant way to get revenge. The worst thing is how he eats it himself knowing what it is. Why would you want to eat Freys? Ew. It's certainly not worse than the RW. According to Meera Reed, a man has a right to vengeance but the breaking guest right the gods cannot forgive. The Freys murdered Manderly ' s son. There's no point blaming Manderly for Rhaegar 's children. Blame Rhaegar for that - the man deserved to die. And if Fat Walda knew about the RW then she's just as guilty as the rest.But the Frey pies were still pretty bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 killing unsuspecting guests on a road? Two wrongs don't make a right. They weren't guests Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game Of Thrones Posted August 27, 2014 Author Share Posted August 27, 2014 They weren't guests They were guests. They came to WH, and Wyman didn't stop them from coming. That makes them guests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolves Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 It wasn't justice, it was pure vengeance.Who called it justice? And there is no such thing as justice in Westeros it's only vengeance. Manderly's son and men were massacred under a false pretense of security and sanctuary, he has every right to take his vengeance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 They were guests. They came to WH, and Wyman didn't stop them from coming. That makes them guests. And before they leave he gives them guest gifts, thus ending their status as guests within his home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryanfury Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 The killing of the three Freys was absolutely justice. These are men who participating in the slaughter of thousands of men in breach of guest right, and are killed by the countrymen of those they helped slaughter. As to what happened after the men were killed? Not justice, not nice, but a very nice bit of ironic vengeance. They were guests. They came to WH, and Wyman didn't stop them from coming. That makes them guests.Troll. Manderly makes a very big, very blatant point about how and when guest right ends. The Freys were not guests when they died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolves Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 They were guests. They came to WH, and Wyman didn't stop them from coming. That makes them guests.He gave them gifts to end protection under guest rights. They were not guest anymore Manderly made sure of that before he killed them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game Of Thrones Posted August 27, 2014 Author Share Posted August 27, 2014 According to Meera Reed, a man has a right to vengeance, but breaking guest right the gods cannot forgive. Well, Manderlys worship the Fot7. There's no point blaming Manderly for Rhaegar 's children. Blame Rhaegar for that - the man deserved to die. By that logic, there's no point blaming Old Walder for Wendel Manderly, because Wendel deserved to die for supporting Robb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game Of Thrones Posted August 27, 2014 Author Share Posted August 27, 2014 Edited out the "guest" part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Well, Manderlys worship the Fot7. I doubt the Seven disagree with that statement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryanfury Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Well, Manderlys worship the Fot7. By that logic, there's no point blaming Old Walder for Wendel Manderly, because Wendel deserved to die for supporting Robb. :bs: By your logic, Walder and his brood deserve the absolute worst because they likely orphaned, or killed the fathers of, thousands of innocent Northern children. But nah, you keep crying about Rhaegars poor ickle kiddies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veltigar Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Sigh, okay let's ask ourselves a couple of questions first: Did Wyman break guestright, the most holy right in the entirety of Westeros?No, he didn't. He gave the Freys parting gifts, which signal the end of formal protection under guest right. Did Wyman kill thousands of innocent people?No, he didn't. Did Wyman have a good reason?Yes, these people murdered his son and were basically out to highjack Manderley heritage. EDIT; they also murdered his king, are alligned with a guy who killed his niece and probably killed a lot of his friends as well. Does that make Frey pies okay?No, not at all. It was badass, but also really gross. Are Frey Pies better than the RW?Yes, no doubt about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game Of Thrones Posted August 27, 2014 Author Share Posted August 27, 2014 :bs: By your logic, Walder and his brood deserve the absolute worst because they likely orphaned, or killed the fathers of, thousands of innocent Northern children. But nah, you keep crying about Rhaegars poor ickle kiddies! When did I ever say Old Walder was not evil or petty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Lucious Left-Foot Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Well, personnally, putting cannibalism so casually in a book is something that made me chuckle. But yeah, it was pretty gross. That was the whole point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tiger Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Well, Manderlys worship the Fot7. By that logic, there's no point blaming Old Walder for Wendel Manderly, because Wendel deserved to die for supporting Robb. Except Robb was Walder's king as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game Of Thrones Posted August 27, 2014 Author Share Posted August 27, 2014 Except Robb was Walder's king as well. A lord can not support a king if he so chooses. And I wasn't actually saying that Wendel deserved to die because he obviously didn't, I was just pointing out the faulty logic. And. Why. Am. I. Defending. Walder. Frey? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryanfury Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 And. Why. Am. I. Defending. Walder. Frey? Because you made a thread stating what everyone already knows - Wyman did some bad things. A response to this is "We know, but fuck the Freys, they deserve it". You don't like this response because you wanted everyone to hate on Manderly, so you defend the Freys in an attempt to absolve their guilt enough that Wyman appears blacker than he actually is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 It's also stupid of you to call the OP a troll when he raises a very valid topic of discussion that many butthurt Stark fanboys are too sensitive to discuss calmly without resorting to name-calling. The irony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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