Opinions on Ser Jorah Mormont

[Lord Orys]

What's your opinion on Jorah? Although an ex-slaver do you believe him to be a moral person? Do you think he deserved to be exiled by Daenerys?

I know Daenerys has to set an example to her council that no matter what, treason against her will not be tolerated. But personally I believe Jorah more than redeemed himself for his past actions before she even found out. I also feel kinda bad for the guy seeing as he had 2 failed marriages and he just wants to try and make Daenerys happy.

[dread pirate davos]

I honestly really like the hairy creep. But to be honest I think it's more to do with Iain Glen than anything based in the actual text.

[Howlin' Howland]

When Jorah sold the criminals in to slavery he was young, infatuated with his wife, had a sense of entitlement, and hadn't seen much of the world. By the time the story starts he'd been in exile for years, seen a lot more of the world than most people in Westeros, and had some first hand knowledge of what slavery looks like. I think he's a character who's growing up.

[JoeyBanana]

It's weird to feel pity for a man who had everything and threw it away twice, but i do

All he needs is a proper clout in the ear to realize he will never be with Dany and that the friendzone of a Queen is a very comfy place

[BearQueen87]

Well, this thread has my name all over it. :)

Jorah is my very favorite non-POV character (and it has nothing to do with Iain, though he's doing a spectacular job playing Show! Jorah)

Jorah is simply Jorah. He is ruthlessly pragmatic, he can be condescending, he can be rude, and mistrustful the a fault; he is arrogant and haughty and he refuses to take responsibility for his actions. He can be violent when provoked. He is also brave, kind, smart, truthful in some areas, and loyal. He loves deeply as evidenced by his second wife and Dany. He has shown on many occasions that he can be a better knight than some of the Kingsguard back in KL (he point blank refuses to hurt Dany when Viserys, the king he has sworn his sword to, orders him).

Jorah is a character who had to be broken, beaten, and branded before he could be healed, something that speaks to me on a very personal level. He is doing a lot of growing up under less than idea circumstances. He lost a lot of what made him Jorah Mormont in Dance. This is the lowest we’ve ever seen Jorah. He has been stripped (literally and metaphorically) of everything that made him who he was. He hasn’t been the Lord of Bear Island in about six years; he is no longer Dany’s most trusted adviser and closest friend, and the last vestige of himself was as a knight, and he can’t even be that anymore, instead becoming that which got him into all this trouble in the first place.

Jorah has always been a very proud man. Even when he finds Tyrion post-banishment, he is wearing his lordly and knightly clothing and throughout the journey to Meereen, Jorah has acted above it all, as if he has not committed any crimes. Once in Meereen, Jorah is just going through the motions, silent and unaware of the world around him. Jorah has never seen slavery as necessarily evil; he sold slaves because it was the solution to a problem he had. His pragmatic out view on life does not allow him put things into strictly “good” and “bad” categories; he’ll help free the slaves of Slaver’s Bay for Dany’s cause without having her own moral reasons for it. But I would submit that Jorah is becoming a different man:

Mormont’s face might have been unrecognizable in its battered state, but his voice was unchanged. Kasporio gave him a startled look, whilst the wrinkles around Plumm’s eyes crinkled in amusement. “Jorah Mormont? Is that you? Less proud than when you scampered off, though. Must we still call you ser?”

Ser Jorah’s swollen lips twisted into a grotesque grin. “Give me a sword and you can call me what you like, Ben.”

Kasporio edged backward. “You…she sent you away…”

“I came back. Call me a fool.”

A fool in love.

The tables are turned and Jorah is just another hard laborer. He does not get the title of “ser” anymore and instead will allow those whom he previous considered inferior to call him whatever they will. In this case, you can even call him a fool.

As for him and Dany...well it's a lot more than an "unrequited" love story. Dany does love him, however that love may manifest in the future--be it romantic or not. I'm not so naive to believe that Dany and Jorah will ride off on Drogon and live in a house with a red door forever more. But she does NEED him. Dany and Jorah have been on parallel journeys in Dance, both loosing themselves in hopelessness, but both now have to become the person they were always meant to be. And I don’t think—even for a moment—that it’s a coincidence that it’s Dany that Jorah “comes back” for and it’s Jorah who gives Dany what she needs most in the Sea.

tl;dr: I am a huge Jorah fan, and I think he is a very complex nuanced man who doesn't fit into easy categories--like almost every other character in this series, let's be honest.

I understand people may not like him and don't try to change people's mind, but I adore my bear.

[King Jaime Lannister]

I have always wanted a POV from Jorah. He is such an interesting character.

He is not all that different from Tywin or Ned in how they are stern and have a lot of pride. However, we see most of Jorah through Dany's POV and see how he cares for her. If we only saw Ned through Cat and Arya and Sansa's POV we may think different of him. I imagine Jorah having a similar thought process to Ned.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Creep. And idiot. And slaver.

He didn't deserve to be exiled by Dany. But he did deserve to be beheaded by Ned Stark.

When Jorah sold the criminals in to slavery he was young, infatuated with his wife, had a sense of entitlement, and hadn't seen much of the world. By the time the story starts he'd been in exile for years, seen a lot more of the world than most people in Westeros, and had some first hand knowledge of what slavery looks like. I think he's a character who's growing up.

Meh, being forty-plus, having seen half a continent, two wars and ruling Bear Island for 15 years doesn't count as being young in my book.

[Lord Orys]

Well, this thread has my name all over it. :)

Jorah is my very favorite non-POV character (and it has nothing to do with Iain, though he's doing a spectacular job playing Show! Jorah)

Jorah is simply Jorah. He is ruthlessly pragmatic, he can be condescending, he can be rude, and mistrustful the a fault; he is arrogant and haughty and he refuses to take responsibility for his actions. He can be violent when provoked. He is also brave, kind, smart, truthful in some areas, and loyal. He loves deeply as evidenced by his second wife and Dany. He has shown on many occasions that he can be a better knight than some of the Kingsguard back in KL (he point blank refuses to hurt Dany when Viserys, the king he has sworn his sword to, orders him).

Jorah is a character who had to be broken, beaten, and branded before he could be healed, something that speaks to me on a very personal level. He is doing a lot of growing up under less than idea circumstances. He lost a lot of what made him Jorah Mormont in Dance. This is the lowest we’ve ever seen Jorah. He has been stripped (literally and metaphorically) of everything that made him who he was. He hasn’t been the Lord of Bear Island in about six years; he is no longer Dany’s most trusted adviser and closest friend, and the last vestige of himself was as a knight, and he can’t even be that anymore, instead becoming that which got him into all this trouble in the first place.

Jorah has always been a very proud man. Even when he finds Tyrion post-banishment, he is wearing his lordly and knightly clothing and throughout the journey to Meereen, Jorah has acted above it all, as if he has not committed any crimes. Once in Meereen, Jorah is just going through the motions, silent and unaware of the world around him. Jorah has never seen slavery as necessarily evil; he sold slaves because it was the solution to a problem he had. His pragmatic out view on life does not allow him put things into strictly “good” and “bad” categories; he’ll help free the slaves of Slaver’s Bay for Dany’s cause without having her own moral reasons for it. But I would submit that Jorah is becoming a different man:

The tables are turned and Jorah is just another hard laborer. He does not get the title of “ser” anymore and instead will allow those whom he previous considered inferior to call him whatever they will. In this case, you can even call him a fool.

As for him and Dany...well it's a lot more than an "unrequited" love story. Dany does love him, however that love may manifest in the future--be it romantic or not. I'm not so naive to believe that Dany and Jorah will ride off on Drogon and live in a house with a red door forever more. But she does NEED him. Dany and Jorah have been on parallel journeys in Dance, both loosing themselves in hopelessness, but both now have to become the person they were always meant to be. And I don’t think—even for a moment—that it’s a coincidence that it’s Dany that Jorah “comes back” for and it’s Jorah who gives Dany what she needs most in the Sea.

tl;dr: I am a huge Jorah fan, and I think he is a very complex nuanced man who doesn't fit into easy categories--like almost every other character in this series, let's be honest.

I understand people may not like him and don't try to change people's mind, but I adore my bear.

First off, I really enjoyed reading this.

"There are ghosts everywhere. We carry them with us wherever we go" - Jorah to Daenerys

Jorah has been stripped of everything he once had and knew, and I think his role in the upcoming books is going to be him either tithing for his past mistakes, or reclaiming what he once had.

[King Jaime Lannister]

well put bearqueen

[King Jaime Lannister]

While on the Jorah topic, what is the exact law and sentence in Westeros for hunting on a lord's land? I know that in medieval times in parts of Europe there were penalties but I am not sure how bad the sentence was?

[BearQueen87]

While on the Jorah topic, what is the exact law and sentence in Westeros for hunting on a lord's land? I know that in medieval times in parts of Europe there were penalties but I am not sure how bad the sentence was?

I've never been sure. I think Jorah was supposed to hand the poachers over to Ned Stark and then Ned would take care of them (probably by beheading?)

ETA: thanks House Seaworth and King Jaime Lannister for the kind words

[Salafi Stannis]

He is certainly a good man, but I guess I understand why Dany exiled him.

[Fai]

Being friend zoned by a girl I have loved for 2 years, I understand Jorah's pain. At least he had a wife for awhile, unlike me.

[King Jaime Lannister]

The act by Jorah that put him over the top in pissing off Dany seemed to be that he reported to Varys from Qarth. This was one thing that pissed me off about Jorah. The momentum was already building to his downfall as Dany was questioning him. Then when we learned that Jorah was "spying" even after the birth of the dragons.

Just when you feel like you want to defend one of the characters, GRRM always throws in one extra act that makes it hard to be 100% behind them.

[King Jaime Lannister]

Being friend zoned by a girl I have loved for 2 years, I understand Jorah's pain. At least he had a wife for awhile, unlike me.

Did you get your one kiss like Jorah?

[BearQueen87]

The act by Jorah that put him over the top in pissing off Dany seemed to be that he reported to Varys from Qarth. This was one thing that pissed me off about Jorah. The momentum was already building to his downfall as Dany was questioning him. Then when we learned that Jorah was "spying" even after the birth of the dragons.

Just when you feel like you want to defend one of the characters, GRRM always throws in one extra act that makes it hard to be 100% behind them.

i think his final report to Varys was literally a final report: that he wouldn't be reporting anymore on Dany, that he had no desire to spy on her anymore. Varys tells Tyrion in Clash that Jorah has switched sides and is devoted to Dany now.

The real act that was the straw that broke the camel's back for Dany was two fold 1) he refused to admit he had done wrong--a common problem for the man and 2) when he says, "I have loved you" it bring to mind the betrayals from the HOTU and she thinks Jorah must be one of them. (she's wrong...but give her time. She'll figure that out...she kinda already has when Vision! Jorah is talking to her in the Sea)

[SacredOrderOfGreenMen]

It's not the first time that Jorah made a fool of himself because of his sincere feelings for a woman. I think Jorah sincerely believed Dany was destined to be great one day; but he was insolent, and refused to really take responsibility for his actions.

I hope that one day Jorah Mormont finds his own way in the world and becomes his own man; maybe joining the NW (or whatever is the vangaurd against the Others), heroic self-sacrifice simply because it is good or he just believes in it, not because for personal love.

"Love is the death of duty."

[Fai]

Did you get your one kiss like Jorah?

Nope. :bawl:

[Dimples]

Creep. And idiot. And slaver.

Agreed. But, having formerly occupied the friend-zone many times, I do have some sympathy for him.

[The Silver King]

I think he's a total creeper. Jorah is one of those rare characters that the show's portrayal made me appreciate him a lot more than the books. I didn't even mind his obsession with Dany but when he started kissing her without consent, he just made me so uncomfortable at that point.

Also I don't think Jorah is really capable of owning up to the wrongs he commits. He wasn't sorry for slaving and he seriously expected Dany to sweep his betrayal under the rug because in his head he already made up for it,even though he never came clean about it.