nelsontropical Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Just happened to do a wikipedia search on Lucifer and thought it might be relevant to our discussion of "Light Bringer" in ASOIAF. "Lucifer," in Latin and Hebrew has several related meanings, all of which refer to fallen stars, dawn, son of dawn, light bringer, or morning star. To me, this is a strong suggestion that the prophesy of "Dawn," "Light Bringer," and "AA" could refer not to the savior, but to the savior's opponent in the story. This could also suggest something amiss with House Dayne, which wields "Dawn," a sword made out of . . . a fallen star. An interesting twist is that, according to wikipedia, Lucifer, or Light Bringer, was ALSO sometimes used to refer to Christ. Anyway, with GRRM's penchant for taking inspiration from ancient history and religion, I wouldn't surprised if all the Dawn stuff might have been drawn from this etymology. Maybe it'll spark some greater insights here on the forum. Here's the Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'm the Party Pooper Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 I thought everyone knew that, lol. There is this problem that such notion of Lúcifer as light bringer really is controversial, particularly because in ancient times it had a positive notion and nothing to do with Satan.. (Romans, Greeks, early Christians..). That is why someone founded a religion that, based on this and other aspects of Lúcifer, worships him as bringer of enlightenment and other 'cool' stuff... like a sort of modern Prometheus myth.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kikajon Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 IIRC Lucifer was an angel and its name had not an evil connotation.Then he rebelled and he kept his name, which in itself actually means light bringer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 As with most other things, the Christians took that from earlier religions so they didn't scare the people off by changing their current religions too drastically. "Lightbringer" meant bringer of knowledge for thousands of years before Christians existed. Not a bad topic of discussion though. It was recently posted that the stranger must be the 7's version of Satan and I told the person that Satan and Death are not the same entity which the person clearly did not know, so to the above, I doubt "everyone" knows that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guy Garlan Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Yep, this (and Melisandre representing the Whore of Babylon) kind of cements the idea of Stannis being (unwittingly, mind you) the false messiah, or Anti-Christ (or rather False Azor Ahai, in this case)And Maester Aemon's quote about his Lightbringer's false light leading people into darkness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mother of The Others Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 This is the part of it that I have doubts about: Just happened to do a wikipedia search on Lucifer Too reminiscent of Seinfeld's sly conversation starter, "So, that Jane Mansfield had some big breasts." I'm not saying you search Lucifer all the time. Not all of the time. But let's not pretend this was the first. It's probably just the shiniest nickname assigned to the devil who got called all sorts of names and this one out-stuck all the others because it brought more class to the devil's portrayal and illustrated the depth of his fall. the church had to rename the devil after a pop culture reference of the early christians? It's like how everybody says "I could care less" now when they should be saying "I couldn't care less." Once that catches on, why fight it. That's what the preachers probably said once it became clear all the folks were calling the devil Lucifer. And I got all of this ^ without consulting a wiki! Stannis is interesting without damnation. It's not required. The world might try to stamp him with damnation, but he'd just bear down and refuse it and toss it back at the world like a live grenade hot potato. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Yep, this (and Melisandre representing the Whore of Babylon) kind of cements the idea of Stannis being (unwittingly, mind you) the false messiah, or Anti-Christ (or rather False Azor Ahai, in this case)And Maester Aemon's quote about his Lightbringer's false light leading people into darkness Agreed and I think fAegon represents the beast from the sea and Dany represents the beast from the earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthernXY Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Ha, ha, ha. This question made me vigorously disliked by my Sunday school teacher when I was a kid. GRRM has stated that R'hllor and the Great Other is more akin to Zoroastrianism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kinkslayer Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 The whole abrahamic story of Lucifer is a half-remembered version of the story of Prometheus, who taught humanity to cheat the gods and was punished by it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Yep, this (and Melisandre representing the Whore of Babylon) I'm the only one who thinks she's some sort of Jeanne d'Arc? =( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'm the Party Pooper Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 I'm the only one who thinks she's some sort of Jeanne d'Arc? =(u mean a male in woman's wardrobe?Shouldn't be necessary such trik since red faith is open to males.. unless... u mean something more hideous lololololol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoamingRonin Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Yep, this (and Melisandre representing the Whore of Babylon) kind of cements the idea of Stannis being (unwittingly, mind you) the false messiah, or Anti-Christ (or rather False Azor Ahai, in this case)And Maester Aemon's quote about his Lightbringer's false light leading people into darkness :agree: Agreed and I think fAegon represents the beast from the sea and Dany represents the beast from the earth. :bs: I'm the only one who thinks she's some sort of Jeanne d'Arc? =( Brienne of Tarth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmarshal Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Agreed and I think fAegon represents the beast from the sea and Dany represents the beast from the earth. How on earth are two people who aren't even TPTWP the beasts? Wouldn't at least be Jo and Dany? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Imperator Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 :agree: Stannis, as the wielder of Lightbringer, will bring Enlightenment to the people of Westeros, a Prometheus of Westeros. "Stannis is the closest thing to a hero in the story." - George R.R. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthernXY Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 The whole abrahamic story of Lucifer is a half-remembered version of the story of Prometheus, who taught humanity to cheat the gods and was punished by it. Bringing up religion is dangerous in forums, especially when you bring up facts that contradict what people have faith in. Stannis, as the wielder of Lightbringer, will bring Enlightenment to the people of Westeros, a Prometheus of Westeros. "Stannis is the closest thing to a hero in the story." - George R.R. Martin Forever to be tortured? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kikajon Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 u mean a male in woman's wardrobe?Shouldn't be necessary such trik since red faith is open to males.. unless... u mean something more hideous lolololololSo Jeanne was a man after all????? And Mel too????hehe ... :)seriously. Because she hears voices or for the possibility of her burning at the stake at the end?I have been wandering if it will happen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoamingRonin Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Stannis, as the wielder of Lightbringer, will bring Enlightenment to the people of Westeros, a Prometheus of Westeros. "Stannis is the closest thing to a hero in the story." - George R.R. Martin That sword is Lightbringer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'm the Party Pooper Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 So Jeanne was a man after all????? And Mel too????hehe ... :)seriously. Because she hears voices or for the possibility of her burning at the stake at the end?I have been wandering if it will happen...No no, it was a bad joke.. the makes much more sense than I initially thought, I realised it only after revising the story of Jeanne ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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