The Kings of Winter are Scary, Scary Dudes

[SacredOrderOfGreenMen]

Okay, this is some meta I wrote up when I was a tumblr-user (how-much-farther-to-go), but it's basically a part of this whole line of thinking I've been having about the Starks, magic, and the old gods lately. And I think I have the answer to why the Starks held the North for 8000 years. They were fuckin' greenseers and wargs, and got that magic through human sacrifice.

Hear me out, I'm totally on Team Weirwood. Yes, the Old Gods' followers aren't intolerant missionaries like the red priests and they don't support a materialistic and generally bullshit fuedalism like the Faith, but some of this shit is seriously fucked up. And I love it that way.

Why the Kings of Winter are Scary, Scary Friggin’ Dudes

1. People like the Boltons were and are afraid of them. The Boltons. Who decided to use a horrifying torture as a sigil (and might have some blood magic connections of their own)
2. They keep massive apex-predators that can bite off your arms, as pets to cuddle with and shit. Imagine if one of the Predators looked at one of the Aliens and said, “It’s so cute, can I hug it?” and then did just that.
3. "Mr. Play Nice” Ned Stark had his hostage Theon Greyjoy be his sword-bearer for executions, as a reminder
4. Based on Bran’s visions, they were totally down for human sacrifice. You know, as a part of their Pact with the Singers and the Old Gods, “So, if we just put people death under the tree will you give us magic powers?”
   “You got it.”
   “It’s a deal.”
5. Another Brandon Stark, called Ice Eyes (subtle), led his Northmen in killing slavers hold up in the Wolf’s Den and hanging their entrails In the heart tree as an offering to the old gods during a long cruel winter.
6. When the mountain clans were arguing with the Queen’s Men over the burnings, noticed how they said, “You’re trying to appease the wrong gods.” Totally chill with human sacrifice.
7. Theon Greyjoy makes a clear reference to dying under the weirwood and “feeding the tree” cause even he feels the vibe.
8. Asha tells Stannis that he should just put her brother to death under the tree. She's feelin' the "die you outsiders" vibe the weirwoods are sendin' out, too.
9. The Stark that I’m betting will be the next will be the next King in the North is so magically gifted he can mind-control people. He is Professor X, but keeps an apex-predator as a pet and talks to sentient trees that like human sacrifices.
10. A Stark King killed the Marsh King and forcibly married his daughter to conquer the Neck. Now the Reeds think that the Starks are just the coolest dudes around, cause that’s how this works.
11. The don't just put their ancestors in holes in the ground with flowers and jewels; they keep them in a creepy crypt with statues of themselves next those of direwolves and with iron swords. (Iron btw has assocations with keeping the dead locked away in European folklore) It's just a good old-fashioned Stark tradition to go and visit the crypt.

I mean, think about it: how were the Starks able to rule a kingdom the size of the other six for so long, with half the wealth of any of the others, with the Boltons for rivals? The answer: greenseer magic. Bran almost certainly isn’t the first greenseer in their line, and or the first greenseer king. Every weirwood was their eyes, every raven their messenger, many a wolf their protector and guardian. And price to have that power was sacrifices to the Old Gods.

The Starks vassals didn’t so much respect the Kings of Winter; they feared them. Today, their fear lives on as implacable loyalty, a certainty that only a Stark can rule the North. As for as long as humanity can remember, only a Stark ever has.

[Pod The Impaler]

Oh, they were certainly a hard and predatory bunch. The likes of the Umbers and Mormonts and Boltons and so on do not strike me as the sort to be dominated easily.

Blood sacrifice may have been something that was practised among all the Northerners. We do not know for sure, but if followers of Rhillor feed people to the fire, and followers of the drowned god feed people to the sea, it should not surprise anyone that a people who are pretty intimate with death would be up to some savagery.

"Savage" is not even really a pejorative word, when you think about it.

[Sir Lee knot]

I see Eddard Stark as an outlier. He picked up all this honor in the Eyrie and then taught it to his kids. Just look at Brandon for a better example of a northman. I'd bet most of the Stark Kings were more like Tywin then Robb.

[Lord Damian]

I suspect the blood sacrafices were criminals or others that had committed crimes that waranted death. yes, The Starks had to be tough. I do not think they ran around capturing virgins or killing people just for the sake of power or pleasure, but when justice was warranted, they acted.

[Blazfemur]

its all in the blood. first men blood. and its the secret to crasters sacrifices. as well as the other wildlings.

[The Wolves]

And they killed their child hostages when their men displeased them. The Kings of Winter were some bad mofos.

[Lord Damian]

And they killed their child hostages when their men displeased them. The Kings of Winter were some bad mofos.

Technically, when you take hostages it is only custom to kill the hostages when the hostage givers break their word, otherwise there would have been no need to take them in the firstplace. So, the hostage givers are (from a certain but plane point of view) the most responsible for hostages getting killed, even children.

[Julian Rayne]

"Mr. Play Nice” Ned Stark had his hostage Theon Greyjoy be his sword-bearer for executions, as a reminder

This is the only point I disagree with. I don't think it was a reminder, because Theon's fate was a hostage to his father's behavior, not his own. There was no point reminding him he was a hostage.

But yeah, they were some scary ass dudes. The fact that their own descendants were afraid of their ghosts is testament to that.

I read this blog talking about the way people misconstrue the Northerners and their religion as benevolent because people from our time tend to see nature based religions as more peaceful. I wish I could find it. I think it was on asoiafuniversity but I'm not sure.

[Brandon Umber]

As far as the crypts go, I think that makes more sense than trying to dig a grave mid winter. Plus you can go visit Gramps anytime you want.

[Boarsbane]

Today, their fear lives on as implacable loyalty, a certainty that only a Stark can rule the North.

Not in everyone...

[A Bastard Snow]

Technically, when you take hostages it is only custom to kill the hostages when the hostage givers break their word, otherwise there would have been no need to take them in the firstplace. So, the hostage givers are (from a certain but plane point of view) the most responsible for hostages getting killed, even children.

Yea and it was not Brandon 'Ice Eyes" Stark who killed the slavers.He stripped the slavers naked and gave them over to the recently freed slaves who then killed them and hung their entrails in the trees as both an offering to the Old Gods and a sign of loyalty to the Starks.

Most of the people in the north speak very fondly about the old Kings of Winter and even speak fondly about how they used to maintain order.(One of the...Flints?when talking to Jon talks about how the Stark's used to take wards and kill them if their fathers disobeyed and he says it not with anger but with nostalgia)

You dont rule a region for 8000 years without being tough.Even people who say Ned Stark was the least Stark-like seem to forget that even Roose/Balon feared him.Even Cat was scared of him at one point when she was demanding to know Jon's mother.

The Stark's have the perfect mixture of Love/Respect/Fear not found in any other house.

[Lee-Sensei]

Technically, when you take hostages it is only custom to kill the hostages when the hostage givers break their word, otherwise there would have been no need to take them in the firstplace. So, the hostage givers are (from a certain but plane point of view) the most responsible for hostages getting killed, even children.

Nope. It's on the person doing the killing more than anything. The Starks of Winter were much harder people than Eddard Stark and his kids. They had to be.

One admirable thing about the Kings of Winter that I read, was that if they have a bastard they take him in and raise them like their trueborn kids. Although, I wonder if their wives felt the same way Cat did to it.

[A Bastard Snow]

Nope. It's on the person doing the killing more than anything. The Starks of Winter were much harder people than Eddard Stark and his kids. They had to be.

One admirable thing about the Kings of Winter that I read, was that if they have a bastard they take him in and raise them like their trueborn kids. Although, I wonder if their wives felt the same way Cat did to it.

I don't think so cause their wives would be Northerners would they not?

[Lion of the West]

I think that you need to be some scary dudes to rule an entire kingdom for an extended period in Westeros. Fear ls solid while love is fickle.

[The Fallen]

When Robb stands up to the Greatjon, he states Robb is a Stark after all. And, of course, Robb tells him how his father taught him it was death to bare steel against your liege lord.

Ned also made a trip to Bear Island to bring justice to Jorah Mormont. And he was described as being cold. Not exactly a softy.

[DavosSeaworthy]

I think that you need to be some scary dudes to rule an entire kingdom for an extended period in Westeros. Fear ls solid while love is fickle.

Couldn't be more wrong. It is love for the Starks that has the Northmen fighting for his little girl and to put Rickon back as lord, for those who know he lives. If they truely feared the Starks in the manner that Tywin was feared, why stick it out for them? The mountain clans likely lost no men in the WoT5K, so why not just bend the knee to the Boltons and accept them and move on? Because they love the Starks, Ned visited them, he respected them. Fear will get you to a point, but eventually fear will cause people to turn on you. Love has people fighting for a family that is all but destroyed. I expect the Lannister bannermen to fall into civil strife if Daven is killed, and if Cersei and Tommen are removed from the IT somehow, there would be no reason to fight for them with that power vacuum opened up, and the people you feared are all gone.

[The Wolves]

Just imagine the stuff they did and the kings/rebellions they put down to rule a huge area like the North. And they did I for 8000yrs

[Boarsbane]

Couldn't be more wrong. It is love for the Starks that has the Northmen fighting for his little girl and to put Rickon back as lord, for those who know he lives. If they truely feared the Starks in the manner that Tywin was feared, why stick it out for them? The mountain clans likely lost no men in the WoT5K, so why not just bend the knee to the Boltons and accept them and move on? Because they love the Starks, Ned visited them, he respected them. Fear will get you to a point, but eventually fear will cause people to turn on you. Love has people fighting for a family that is all but destroyed. I expect the Lannister bannermen to fall into civil strife if Daven is killed, and if Cersei and Tommen are removed from the IT somehow, there would be no reason to fight for them with that power vacuum opened up, and the people you feared are all gone.

And yet they don't all start fighting over who is in charge once Tywin is dead. It takes a remarkably weak lord for the Westerlands houses to start getting rowdy, and even then they hadn't directly tried to overthrow the Lannisters. They have been ruling over the West for as long as the Starks have the North, Tywin dying isn't going to change that.

[Lee-Sensei]

Couldn't be more wrong. It is love for the Starks that has the Northmen fighting for his little girl and to put Rickon back as lord, for those who know he lives. If they truely feared the Starks in the manner that Tywin was feared, why stick it out for them? The mountain clans likely lost no men in the WoT5K, so why not just bend the knee to the Boltons and accept them and move on? Because they love the Starks, Ned visited them, he respected them. Fear will get you to a point, but eventually fear will cause people to turn on you. Love has people fighting for a family that is all but destroyed. I expect the Lannister bannermen to fall into civil strife if Daven is killed, and if Cersei and Tommen are removed from the IT somehow, there would be no reason to fight for them with that power vacuum opened up, and the people you feared are all gone.

There's no proof that the Lannister bannermen are disloyal.

[Boarsbane]

There's no proof that the Lannister bannermen are disloyal.

It is wishful thinking basically. People want Tywin's harsh and ruthless way of doings things to cause his bannermen to turn on his family after he is dead to prove love is better than respect and fear.