Where was Daenerys' House with the Red Door? -- Not Braavos!

[Archmaester Drew]

Daenerys frequently recalls an idealize time when she and Viserys were young, and living in the house with the red door and the lemon tree in the yard. Viserys told her this was Braavos, but no trees grow in Braavos. Where were they, and why did he lie to Daenerys?

Thoughts?

:)

[BearQueen87]

Trees did not grow on Braavos, save in the courts and gardens of the mighty. (AFFC)

Dany's lemon tree was most likely in the courtyard of the ruler/Sealord of Braavos.

There is even a map of it: http://www.fantasticmaps.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Sealords-Palace.png

[Archmaester Drew]

Dany's lemon tree was most likely in the courtyard of the ruler/Sealord of Braavos.

There is even a map of it: http://www.fantasticmaps.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Sealords-Palace.png

Okay, I missed that, but Lemon trees are subtropical and wouldn't grow well that far north (particularly with Planetos winters!). :)

[BearQueen87]

Okay, I missed that, but Lemon trees are subtropical and wouldn't grow that far north (particularly with Planetos winters!). :)

What's to say it wasn't part of an indoor arboretum? They do have a glass garden at Winterfell of all places.

[Archmaester Drew]

What's to say it wasn't part of an indoor arboretum? They do have a glass garden at Winterfell of all places.

IIRC it is in the yard, so outside, at least. It's not impossible that it was Braavos, but GRRM makes a note of saying there are no trees in Braavos --excepting the courts of the mighty -- and they were laying low. :)

[BearQueen87]

IIRC it is in the yard, so outside, at least. It's not impossible that it was Braavos, but GRRM makes a note of saying there are no trees in Braavos --excepting the courts of the mighty -- and they were laying low. :)

But this was when Dany and Viserys had just fled from Dragonstone. For the first few years, they were hosted by the lords of the Free Cities. As time wore on, the doors to those great houses began to close and that's when things got desperate for them.

ETA: quotes added

At first the magisters and archons and merchant princes were pleased to welcome the last Targaretens to their homes and tables, but as the years passed and the Usurper continued to sit upon the IT, doors closed and their lives grew meaner.

GOT, Dany I

[ChillyPolly]

He lied to her because he was planning to sell her to a stupid barbarian in exchange for an army. This is something Viserys & Illyrio had been planning for a long time, which is why Illyrio complains to Tyrion that Viserys almost destroyed years of planning by trying to deflower her before her wedding. She is a girl they somehow acquired at a young age, and prepared from a young age. They told her she was Rhaella's daughter, born on Dragonstone ... perhaps because they could not get their hands on Rhaella's real daughter, whom Ser Willem Darry probably smuggled elsewhere. This is why Illyrio is so preoccupied with whether she LOOKS like a princess, and ponders in satisfaction that she definitely must be of the blood of Old Valyria (as if her heritage was not already known).

The bear of a man Dany remembers from her childhood is not in fact Ser Willem Darry, but rather Ser Willam Dustin. Since Dustin never "lived to ride away" from the Tower of Joy, the house with the red door must be nearby. But we know someone other than Howland Reed survived at the Tower for at least a little while, because it is otherwise hard to explain the words "They had found him still holding her body". "They" means Howland and one other person (probably Dustin). Ned's return of Lord Dustin's magnificent horse, coupled with the failure to return his bones for which Lady Dustin bears a grudge, further emphasizes that Lord Dustin may have survived a while without "living to ride away".

Dany remembers Ser Willam calling her "Little Princess" and "Lady" but never "Daenerys".

[Julia Martell]

He lied to her because he was planning to sell her to a stupid barbarian in exchange for an army. This is something Viserys & Illyrio had been planning for a long time, which is why Illyrio complains to Tyrion that Viserys almost destroyed years of planning by trying to deflower her before her wedding. She is a girl they somehow acquired at a young age, and prepared from a young age. They told her she was Rhaella's daughter, born on Dragonstone ... perhaps because they could not get their hands on Rhaella's real daughter, whom Ser Willem Darry probably smuggled elsewhere. This is why Illyrio is so preoccupied with whether she LOOKS like a princess, and ponders in satisfaction that she definitely must be of the blood of Old Valyria (as if her heritage was not already known).

The bear of a man Dany remembers from her childhood is not in fact Ser Willem Darry, but rather Ser Willam Dustin. Since Dustin never "lived to ride away" from the Tower of Joy, the house with the red door must be nearby. But we know someone other than Howland Reed survived at the Tower for at least a little while, because it is otherwise hard to explain the words "They had found him still holding her body". "They" means Howland and one other person (probably Dustin). Ned's return of Lord Dustin's magnificent horse, coupled with the failure to return his bones for which Lady Dustin bears a grudge, further emphasizes that Lord Dustin may have survived a while without "living to ride away".

Dany remembers Ser Willam calling her "Little Princess" and "Lady" but never "Daenerys".

That.... or they were staying in a rich dude's house and he had some plants in pots. Which ever you think explains more.

[BearQueen87]

He lied to her because he was planning to sell her to a stupid barbarian in exchange for an army. This is something Viserys & Illyrio had been planning for a long time, which is why Illyrio complains to Tyrion that Viserys almost destroyed years of planning by trying to deflower her before her wedding.

".

Viserys and Dany had only been living with Illyrio for a little over a year in GOT. Before then V and D were no more than street urchins after the great houses turned them away. How are V and I planning anything?

She is a girl they somehow acquired at a young age, and prepared from a young age. They told her she was Rhaella's daughter, born on Dragonstone ... perhaps because they could not get their hands on Rhaella's real daughter, whom Ser Willem Darry probably smuggled elsewhere.

1) Where is the real Dany?

2) Willem Darry stayed with Dany and Viserys until his death. He died at the house of the Red Door

The bear of a man Dany remembers from her childhood is not in fact Ser Willem Darry, but rather Ser Willam Dustin. Since Dustin never "lived to ride away" from the Tower of Joy, the house with the red door must be nearby.

Or Dustin is dead, thus all carins Ned builds....

But we know someone other than Howland Reed survived at the Tower for at least a little while, because it is otherwise hard to explain the words "They had found him still holding her body". "They" means Howland and one other person (probably Dustin

Most likely it's the midwives who are there to assist Lyanna when her time comes. Maybe even a servant or two to help with the cooking and cleaning, unless you're suggesting that the 3KG were doing that. But even then, they ain't delivering L's baby.

Dany remembers Ser Willam calling her "Little Princess" and "Lady" but never "Daenerys".

And in your experience of ASOIAF do good knights often call the royal children by their first name?

[RoamingRonin]

Dany never mentions the canals. Braavos is such a unique city, how come she never mentions the canals?

[ChillyPolly]

That.... or they were staying in a rich dude's house and he had some plants in pots. Which ever you think explains more.

Well, your explanation does not explain why or how Dany is a "child of three", nor does it explain why Rhaegar thought the three heads of the dragon would be his own 3 children, nor the hint that he seemed to be looking at Dany when he spoke of the third.

[BearQueen87]

Dany never mentions the canals. Braavos is such a unique city, how come she never mentions the canals?

Because she never left the house. She stayed in the Sealord's palace.

Well, your explanation does not explain why or how Dany is a "child of three", nor does it explain why Rhaegar thought the three heads of the dragon would be his own 3 children, nor the hint that he seemed to be looking at Dany when he spoke of the third.

"Rhaegar" was not looking at her. That's not historical actual Rhaegar. That's the magic--both of the warlocks and of the kind that exists in Planteos as a whole--looking at Dany. That moment has nothing to do with Rhaegar. And Dany wasn't even BORN when Aegon was born.

[A Bastard Snow]

That.... or they were staying in a rich dude's house and he had some plants in pots. Which ever you think explains more.

Yea its like whats more realistic plants growning in specially prepared area's when you have an example (Winterfell)

Or or...time travel mind control and teleportation.

[RoamingRonin]

Because she never left the house. She stayed in the Sealord's palace.

But they were kicked out, weren't they? She should have noticed the canals!

Just kidding. I don't believe in this tomfoolery. Here's one key thing that destroys the theory: people in Braavos speak Braavosi. Even when they do speak the common tongue, they have a unique way of doing it. "Just so", accents, and so on. There's no point to the lie. But crackpots gonna crackpot so whatever. :lol: :dunno:

[Pod The Impaler]

Maybe it was a really sickly tree that was barely able to even grow there, with tiny, shitty lemons.

Unreliable narrators, remember? It's a cherished childhood memory to her, but a 3 year old orphan girl is hardly an expert on quality citrus fruit.

[Witch]

Dorne, duh!

[Skinchanging Sweetrobin]

Darry gets his money stolen. Why didn't he use the bank?

[ChillyPolly]

BearQueen87: Re your objections:

Illyrio's plans for Dany were definitely more than a year old prior to her wedding, for he tells Tyrion as much. How you explain this, in light of the fact that they only spend a year as guests of the cheesemonger prior to the wedding, is up to you, but it appears to be a fact regardless of whether Dany is Viserys' real sister.

Viserys and Daenerys were never street urchins. They were "beggars" by the standards of the powerful and mighty, not by the standards of common folk. They spent years wandering from place to place, visiting lots of important people in widely different locations, giving all of them an opportunity to meet and know "Daenerys". It may have been part of the setup. Viserys told Dany they had to keep moving because they were fleeing the knives of the Usurper, but that was just a cover story. No assassins were hunting them at this point, as per Jon Arryn's policy.

Where is the real Dany? I don't know. Maybe she is being fostered by the Manderleys, with her hair dyed green so that people don't notice anything suspicious about her Targaryen hair color.

Under the theory, it was Willam Dustin, not Willam Darry, who died at the house with the red door.

Sure, there probably were servants at the Tower of Joy. But any midwives would have been already with her. And any other servants would have no reason to arrive at the exact same time as Howland Reed did. Not to mention that Ned would have no reason to remember such a nameless servant arriving. "They" is a poor fit, unless it refers to at least two of his companions

[Dornish Vinegar]

Really want There Are No Lemon Trees In Braavos to be true :crying:

[Dimples]

Where is the real Dany? I don't know. Maybe she is being fostered by the Manderleys, with her hair dyed green so that people don't notice anything suspicious about her Targaryen hair color.

Please tell me this is a joke. Because of your first post, I really don't know.