Khal in the North! Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Seriously, I never understood why. She does what she does because she believes in it. She's not faking it. Sure it may not be the best thing that she burns people, but she believes its what her god wants and that its for the greater good. She believes in Stannis and is trying to save the world. George RR Martin has even said fans misunderstand her (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5_QQreskNI). Yet fans always want to say stuff like "Stannis will realize what a lying bitch she is and kill her" or "Melisandre doesn't know whats coming to her". The thing is, she's not lying. In her viewpoint chapter its clear that she believes what she's preaching and is concerned for Stannis. I've also seen people say that Jon Snow can't be dead because there would be no reliable POV source left. Well, what the hell is that suppose to mean. She's biased, but so is every other POV character. Ned Stark was extremely biased towards Jaime, but Jaime wasn't as bad as Ned thought he was. Catelyn was biased against Jon Snow (and for obvious reasons to all Catelyn haters out there) but Jon isn't bad. Every viewpoint character has a bias, that's how GRRM writes, and what makes them so good. And as for reliable, I really don't know what evidence there was of that. So far as I know, all the events she described were true. Also of all the viewpoints, Sansa is the least reliable, as she says Sandor kissed her when he didn't. All in all I think its really dumb and unfair to hate on Melisandre, what do you guys think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Imperator Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Hey, I actually like Melisandre. In fact, Melisandre is one of my favorite characters. Some people have suggested the Jon POV being done away with in the next book and being replaced with the Melisandre POV. I for one want that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khal in the North! Posted September 1, 2014 Author Share Posted September 1, 2014 Hey, I actually like Melisandre. In fact, Melisandre is one of my favorite characters. Some people have suggested the Jon POV being done away with in the next book and being replaced with the Melisandre POV. I for one want that. I agree that Jon Snow I dead and that Melisandre will take over, and I want that too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trigger Warning Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Seriously, I never understood why. She does what she does because she believes in it. She's not faking it. Sure it may not be the best thing that she burns people, but she believes its what her god wants and that its for the greater good. Not that I think Mel is evil but this is a pretty weak excuse. Lots of people have committed acts of evil whilst believing their cause was righteous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 I don't think she's evil, but she's not a reliable narrator. She's also a better character the less you know about her. She would not be a good choice to replace Jon permanently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khal in the North! Posted September 1, 2014 Author Share Posted September 1, 2014 I don't think she's evil, but she's not a reliable narrator. But how is she not a reliable narrator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelborn Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 I don't think Jon is dead, but whatever, I want more Mel always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Umber Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 I don't think she's evil at all. I think she is horribly misguided and too rigid to truly understand what's actually going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelborn Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 And I do love Mel and I don't think she's evil, but her means to an end are questionable. She believes what she's doing is right... but so did Nazis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khal in the North! Posted September 1, 2014 Author Share Posted September 1, 2014 And I do love Mel and I don't think she's evil, but her means to an end are questionable. She believes what she's doing is right... but so did Nazis. That's what I meant and forgot to put, not that she's evil, but more misguided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stateofdissipation Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Seriously, I never understood why. She does what she does because she believes in it. She's not faking it. Sure it may not be the best thing that she burns people, but she believes its what her god wants and that its for the greater good. She believes in Stannis and is trying to save the world. George RR Martin has even said fans misunderstand her (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5_QQreskNI). Yet fans always want to say stuff like "Stannis will realize what a lying bitch she is and kill her" or "Melisandre doesn't know whats coming to her". The thing is, she's not lying. In her viewpoint chapter its clear that she believes what she's preaching and is concerned for Stannis. I've also seen people say that Jon Snow can't be dead because there would be no reliable POV source left. Well, what the hell is that suppose to mean. She's biased, but so is every other POV character. Ned Stark was extremely biased towards Jaime, but Jaime wasn't as bad as Ned thought he was. Catelyn was biased against Jon Snow (and for obvious reasons to all Catelyn haters out there) but Jon isn't bad. Every viewpoint character has a bias, that's how GRRM writes, and what makes them so good. And as for reliable, I really don't know what evidence there was of that. So far as I know, all the events she described were true. Also of all the viewpoints, Sansa is the least reliable, as she says Sandor kissed her when he didn't. All in all I think its really dumb and unfair to hate on Melisandre, what do you guys think It is quite possible to hate Catelyn without thinking about Jon. Bran got thrown from a tower and Catelyn was so much of a basket-case that Ned thinks of her first. He belonged with Catelyn in her grief and Bran,--aGoT page 112 Thar being said, Mel gets a bad rap because she killed Renly and the Maester and because Davos does not like her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guy Garlan Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 But how is she not a reliable narrator Because she's profoundly biased and mistaken. She believes Stannis is Azor Ahai (even though people like Aemon questions it) and most importantly she deliberately twists her visions to match her interpretations That said, I like Mel. I don't really see her as a villain, but I think in WoW she will either board the train to Redemptionville or the express to Crazytown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Imperator Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Melisandre still has some mystique to her. Because of that aura of mystery, I still want to see learn more about her, which is partly why I wouldn't mind her being the central Wall POV. Because she's profoundly biased and mistaken. She believes Stannis is Azor Ahai (even though people like Aemon questions it) and most importantly she deliberately twists her visions to match her interpretations That said, I like Mel. I don't really see her as a villain, but I think in WoW she will either board the train to Redemptionville or the express to Crazytown Aemon believes she's mistaken and... what? How do we know if Aemon really even knows what he's talking about when it comes to the prophecy or that he the prophecy is real? Look, I don't believe that Stannis is Azor Ahai. I'm leaning towards the idea that the prophecy itself is BS. But seriously, people treat Aemon like he's the smartest guy in Westeros or something. P = BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squire to Ser Pounce Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 It's really, really hard to defend the act of burning someone alive, let alone burning several people - even if it is for "the greater good." It is not a good act. Dany burning Mirri wasn't a good act either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Imperator Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 It's really, really hard to defend the act of burning someone alive, let alone burning several people - even if it is for "the greater good." It is not a good act. Dany burning Mirri wasn't a good act either. I would agree with that. That said, I agree with Mel killing Renly. Renly needed to be taken out of the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guy Garlan Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Melisandre still has some mystique to her. Because of that aura of mystery, I still want to see learn more about her, which is partly why I wouldn't mind her being the central Wall POV. Aemon believes she's mistaken and... what? How do we know if Aemon really even knows what he's talking about when it comes to the prophecy or that he the prophecy is real? Look, I don't believe that Stannis is Azor Ahai. I'm leaning towards the idea that the prophecy itself is BS. But seriously, people treat Aemon like he's the smartest guy in Westeros or something. P = BS. Yeah, I'm not saying Aemon has the last word on all things magical, but that's an example of why Mel isn't a reliable narrator, and that's because she won't even consider other possibilities of Azor Ahai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 She's an unreliable narrator because she is a seer. Look at the way she treats Mance talking about the Weeper. She's not listening because the Wildlings are "doomed". She has seen the future, mixes it with the present and lets that cloud her judgment. If we had to see from her POV for an entire book, we would not know how to separate her opinions from the facts.It's interesting for a couple of chapters, but it would start to grate for an entire boom or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ned's Little Girl Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 I think Mel is evil. Anyone who can justify burning people alive, who believes that their god demands such acts, is evil. She has zero compassion for those who see the world differently than her, she is a zealot. Zealotry is evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerranV Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Well she does like burning people... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantinople Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 I think Mel has zero compassion for those who see the world differently than her, she is a zealot. Zealotry is evil.Doesn't Mel in her POV talk about wanting to save the entire human race, rather than just worshippers of AA? Surely that shows at least SOME broader compassion? I'm another Mel-fan, btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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