James Steller Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 What got me to this forum in the first place were the extensive conversations and debates about the remaining military strength of the Northmen. One thing that I noticed was consistent with all of them was the assumed idea that the Skagosi would contribute a few more thousands to the war effort. This assumption makes me scratch my head in confusion. What makes anyone think the Skagosi will fight for the North?Everything we've heard about them so far is that they're a bunch of primitive, cannibalistic savages who fight each other almost as much as they fight the rest of the North. The Starks barely brought them into the fold, and they're barely part of the North at all, even now.One might assume that because they seem to be sheltering Rickon, it means they're loyal to House Stark and will fight, but (A) we don't know if Rickon is still alive, (B) we don't know if he's living under an assumed name, and © we don't know if he's living as a prisoner. Hell, maybe Rickon will go full Skagosi by the time Davos finds him and tries to take him back. We've seen no evidence of the idea that the Skagosi will immediately muster and fight for the Starks, yet everyone I've seen on this forum assumes it as a given fact. Am I missing something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uptowngbv Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Although I wouldn't go as far to say that everyone thinks the Skagosi will join the war, I do share your skepticism. How would they all reach the mainland? Davos is likely taking only a small ship to fetch Rickon. Although we know that Skagos does at least some trading with passing ships (Tyrion tells Janos Slynt that his ship will be stopping at Skagos), there's nothing to suggest that they have the ships necessary to move thousands of men. The sea has probably gotten worse since Davos headed south and ships were already breaking up on the shores of Skagos when he left Eastwatch. Historically, the last we know of the Skagosi is that they killed the lord of Winterfell during a rebellion a hundred years before the books. Even though the rebellion was suppressed, there's nothing to suggest that the Skagosi have "warmed" to Winterfell rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lopsang Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Are there even "thousands" of people on Skagos? Do we have population statistics or something? I assumed Skagos was very sparsely populated. Few of them will probably be warriors as well. Even if there are warriors, they won't be nearly as good as the Northmen and Southron knights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game Of Thrones Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Are there even "thousands" of people on Skagos? Do we have population statistics or something? I assumed Skagos was very sparsely populated. Few of them will probably be warriors as well. Even if there are warriors, they won't be nearly as good as the Northmen and Southron knights. Skagos is much bigger than Bear Island and eastern Westeros is warmer than western Westeros. Skagos should be able to field 2,000-3,000 soldiers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Steller Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share Posted September 2, 2014 Skagos is much bigger than Bear Island and eastern Westeros is warmer than western Westeros. Skagos should be able to field 2,000-3,000 soldiers. I can believe the numbers. But would these tribesmen really unite and go fight the Boltons and Freys and possibly the Others all in the name of a young boy and an old smuggler's persuasions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game Of Thrones Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 I can believe the numbers. But would these tribesmen really unite and go fight the Boltons and Freys and possibly the Others all in the name of a young boy and an old smuggler's persuasions?They're not exactly wildlings not tribesmen. They have three Houses, and one of them is called Magnar, so they have a feudal hierarchy.And seeing the position of Skagos and Cotter Pyke's letter, the Skagosi might be forced to flee to the mainland with all their people anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northbound3.0 Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Because the Ned's momma was Skagosi! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 What got me to this forum in the first place were the extensive conversations and debates about the remaining military strength of the Northmen. One thing that I noticed was consistent with all of them was the assumed idea that the Skagosi would contribute a few more thousands to the war effort. This assumption makes me scratch my head in confusion. What makes anyone think the Skagosi will fight for the North?Everything we've heard about them so far is that they're a bunch of primitive, cannibalistic savages who fight each other almost as much as they fight the rest of the North. The Starks barely brought them into the fold, and they're barely part of the North at all, even now.One might assume that because they seem to be sheltering Rickon, it means they're loyal to House Stark and will fight, but (A) we don't know if Rickon is still alive, ( B) we don't know if he's living under an assumed name, and © we don't know if he's living as a prisoner. Hell, maybe Rickon will go full Skagosi by the time Davos finds him and tries to take him back. We've seen no evidence of the idea that the Skagosi will immediately muster and fight for the Starks, yet everyone I've seen on this forum assumes it as a given fact. Am I missing something?Half of that is made up in your head, the other half is likely wrong. No information we have says that the skagosi are primitive, or that they fight each other "almost as much as they fight the rest of the north" which is also an insinuation based on only 1 event 100 years ago. In all likelihood the skagosi are much more sophisticated then we have been lead to believe, if not how were they able to mount such a successful rebellion? Although I wouldn't go as far to say that everyone thinks the Skagosi will join the war, I do share your skepticism. How would they all reach the mainland? Davos is likely taking only a small ship to fetch Rickon. Although we know that Skagos does at least some trading with passing ships (Tyrion tells Janos Slynt that his ship will be stopping at Skagos), there's nothing to suggest that they have the ships necessary to move thousands of men. The sea has probably gotten worse since Davos headed south and ships were already breaking up on the shores of Skagos when he left Eastwatch. Skagos is bigger than all the Iron isles put together, and is close enough to essos and other places to have better trade. They were also able to kill the Stark lord at the time of their rebellion. 2-3k troops really couldn't have threatened the starks. We are also told that wildlings flee to skagos regularly, so they have probably had an influx of population.The 60 warships that Manderly built... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game Of Thrones Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Because the Ned's momma was Skagosi!And why would a Flint marry a lord on the other side of the continent? Especially considering that Skagosi are rather despised by the North, and that Skagos is a real backwater and completely isolated?It makes about as much sense as an Umber marrying a Reed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Because the Ned's momma was Skagosi! That is not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northbound3.0 Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 That is not true.I know. :) Just having a bit of fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game Of Thrones Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Skagos fielding more than 3,000 men is wishful thinking or GRRM going crazy. Karstarks have 3,000 men an Karstark lands are larger and richer.Also, uptowngbv has probably never heard of such a thing called guerrilla warfare. Or assassination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastStark Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 The people of Skagos call themselves "Skagosi", which means "Stoneborn" in the Old Tongue. I wonder if they have or will have any connection to the "Ironborn" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Steller Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share Posted September 2, 2014 I was probably being too hyperbolic in my original post. But If Skagos is sophisticated, why would Davos be so afraid of it when he finds out that's where Rickon is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game Of Thrones Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 I was probably being too hyperbolic in my original post. But If Skagos is sophisticated, why would Davos be so afraid of it when he finds out that's where Rickon is? Some posters have suggested that the Skagosi intentionally spread rumors to keep outsiders away, which is crackpot, but many (most) rumors are by definition bullshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daskool Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Skagos fielding more than 3,000 men is wishful thinking or GRRM going crazy. Karstarks have 3,000 men an Karstark lands are larger and richer.Also, uptowngbv has probably never heard of such a thing called guerrilla warfare. Or assassination.Depends. The Karstarks are feudal Lords, their 3000 men are part time soldiers or full time noblemen warriors. The Skagosi might well be able to field more, just they'd be made up of tribal fighters (if that's how their culture is structured). I'm not sure why folk are so hung up on numbers anyway? The training, equipment, supply, tactics and leadership of an army is just as important as numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daskool Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 They're not exactly wildlings not tribesmen. They have three Houses, and one of them is called Magnar, so they have a feudal hierarchy.And seeing the position of Skagos and Cotter Pyke's letter, the Skagosi might be forced to flee to the mainland with all their people anyways.The white walkers will reach Skagos pretty soon into the WoW I reckon. Cannibals or no they'll be desperate to team up with whoever will have them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Lee knot Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 I just don't see why they wouldn't provide military support to someone. We know the north needs more manpower so why send Rickon to Skagos and have the Skagosi do nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Steller Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share Posted September 2, 2014 I just don't see why they wouldn't provide military support to someone. We know the north needs more manpower so why send Rickon to Skagos and have the Skagosi do nothing. I assumed that they'll be an obstacle for Davos' mission to get Rickon back to the mainland. Beyond that? Who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Hendrix of Rock Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 The problem of transportation could be solved in 3 possible ways imo.1. The bay freazes and they march across.2. The Manderly fleet (this could take a while, but maybe ravens can help)3. The way we assume they killed of The Skane, lots of rowboats I imagine.I still doubt about who they are loyal to, Starks or themselfs/wildlings.But I just hope they follow the wolfcub! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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