Game Of Thrones Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share Posted September 2, 2014 Can somebody give me a recap on exactly what happened? I don't remember this wildfire scheme thing. When Rhaegar was killed by Robert, Aerys the Mad King conspired with pyromancers to burn down King's Landing since Robert would have taken it anyways. When Tywin attacked KL Aerys ordered Jaime to kill his father and called for the Pyromancer, so that he could burn down KL. Jaime killed Aerys, and killed most of the pyromancers afterwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RainGhost Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 I think Jaime was right to do what he did. However, I also think Jaime should have suffered the consequences of his actions, if he believed his actions to be the right thing to do. Doing the right thing sometimes means paying a price. Ned raised a child as his own bastard and suffered the consequences of doing so...it was definitely the right thing to do, but it came with a price to pay- namely, the loss of his pristine honor- but he paid it nevertheless. Jaime should have done the same. Jaime did pay a price. The same price as Ned actually - Jaime was forever known as the Kingslayer, a man with no honour, which is never what he wanted to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasta11 Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 He thought big meanie Eddard would dare judge him for a crime he actually comitted, and threw a silent tantrum because of his wounded pride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larastone Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 This. And this. Notably, he hasn't really changed in this lack of propensity to defend his own actions or failure to try to change others' perceptions of him. In his conversation with the Blackfish, when the Blackfish is basically spitting on his honor and pointing to how he broke his vows to Cat, Jaime similarly remains silent and refuses to defend himself. The thing with Jaime though is that he hasn't been as proactive about fulfilling his oaths to Cat as he could have been but it's all about conflicting vows in general since one of the reasons he can't go with Brienne on the search for Sansa is because he has to protect Tommen. The interesting thing now is though...by rejecting Cersei and running off with Brienne he's breaking his vow to Tommen lol and I get the feeling that's going to end up biting him in the ass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Jaime did pay a price. The same price as Ned actually - Jaime was forever known as the Kingslayer, a man with no honour, which is never what he wanted to be. Oooh, a nickname. Jaime still kept his position at a Kingsguard, he still stayed next to his beloved sister and fathered her illegitimate children. He didn't pay any price at all for slaying Aerys. Ned had to face his wife. Ned didn't just have to deal with people talking about him behind his back...he had to deal with his unhappy wife as he forced her to accept Jon into her home and amongst her children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RainGhost Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Oooh, a nickname. Jaime still kept his position at a Kingsguard, he still stayed next to his beloved sister and fathered her illegitimate children. He didn't pay any price at all for slaying Aerys.Ned had to face his wife. Ned didn't just have to deal with people talking about him behind his back...he had to deal with his unhappy wife as he forced her to accept Jon into her home and amongst her children. Imo Jaime suffers more than Ned. Kingslayer is way more than nickname. Jaime aspired to be like Arthur Dayne and other legendary knights and then he puts on a white cloak and serves Aerys. Everybody judges him for killing Aerys and nobody believes a word he says after that. He ends up being a very different man than the one he'd wanted to be. Ned has to deal with Catelyn but she loves him anyway. The only person who really judges Ned for Jon is Ned. Most men have bastards. Jon doesn't change the person Ned wanted to be. Jon suffers more for it than Ned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galaxian Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Imo Jaime suffers more than Ned. Kingslayer is way more than nickname. Jaime aspired to be like Arthur Dayne and other legendary knights and then he puts on a white cloak and serves Aerys. Everybody judges him for killing Aerys and nobody believes a word he says after that. He ends up being a very different man than the one he'd wanted to be. Except he never said anything to justify his actions. It's hard to believe something when you know none of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Imo Jaime suffers more than Ned. Kingslayer is way more than nickname. Jaime aspired to be like Arthur Dayne and other legendary knights and then he puts on a white cloak and serves Aerys. Everybody judges him for killing Aerys and nobody believes a word he says after that. He ends up being a very different man than the one he'd wanted to be. Ned has to deal with Catelyn but she loves him anyway. The only person who really judges Ned for Jon is Ned. Most men have bastards. Jon doesn't change the person Ned wanted to be. Jon suffers more for it than Ned. How does he 'suffer'? Just because he wants to be something and can't become that doesn't mean he suffered. That's not suffering at all, actually. I wanted to be an astronaut when I was little, I guess I'm suffering now, right? He doesn't actually 'suffer' until he loses his hand for completely unrelated reasons, and Brienne tells him straight up "Oh, welcome to the real world". And he realizes that she's right. Jaime NEVER suffered the consequences of killing the king. He killed the king. At the very least, he should have been sent to the Wall. But he wasn't. He got to stay with his sister and continue his incestuous relationship with her right under the next king's nose. We see Ned and Cat fight over Jon more than once. Ned pays the price because he is a deeply honorable man and now has to face the entire world as someone who dishonored his wife. He has to watch Jon pay the price for being his 'bastard' and knowing that his decision forced that life upon his nephew, who may not even be a bastard at all. He has to live with secrets so dangerous that he can never tell anyone or risk the lives of Jon and his family. He has to agree to let Jon go to the Wall because he has no other prospects. This is the price Ned has to pay. He, Catelyn and Jon all suffer because Ned does the right thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impoverished Noble Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Either way, he broke his vow. A good and justifiable excuse is still an excuse.We must bow down and worship the overlords! Praise those who seek to control and destroy us!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bollen46 Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Well why doesn´t anyone believe Brienne?I don´t think anyone would have given him the chance to prove (except Tywin who nobody would belive since he´s Jaimie´s father) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 We must bow down and worship the overlords! Praise those who seek to control and destroy us!!! ...what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Malenkirk Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 How does he 'suffer'? Just because he wants to be something and can't become that doesn't mean he suffered. That's not suffering at all, actually. I wanted to be an astronaut when I was little, I guess I'm suffering now, right? He doesn't actually 'suffer' until he loses his hand for completely unrelated reasons, and Brienne tells him straight up "Oh, welcome to the real world". And he realizes that she's right. Jaime NEVER suffered the consequences of killing the king. He killed the king. At the very least, he should have been sent to the Wall. But he wasn't. He got to stay with his sister and continue his incestuous relationship with her right under the next king's nose.We see Ned and Cat fight over Jon more than once. Ned pays the price because he is a deeply honorable man and now has to face the entire world as someone who dishonored his wife. He has to watch Jon pay the price for being his 'bastard' and knowing that his decision forced that life upon his nephew, who may not even be a bastard at all. He has to live with secrets so dangerous that he can never tell anyone or risk the lives of Jon and his family. He has to agree to let Jon go to the Wall because he has no other prospects. This is the price Ned has to pay. He, Catelyn and Jon all suffer because Ned does the right thing. Wait, wait. Your first paragraph is correct, Jaime doesn't pay much of a price for breaking his vow. Your second paragraph shows a strong Ned bias because Ned doesn't pay much price either for lying/hiding the truth either! You're kidding yourself if you claim Ned paid a stiffer price than Jaime on that account. It's really on the same level of inconvenience. You just dislike one character and like the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galaxian Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Your second paragraph shows a strong Ned bias because Ned doesn't pay much price either for lying/hiding the truth either! You're kidding yourself if you claim Ned paid a stiffer price than Jaime on that account. So you are saying that Lying = Regicide? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrovax Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Exactly. He could and should have told Ned but Jaime was being a poopy baby. What exactly is that going to accomplish? Why would the pyromancers admit to the new regime that they totally helped the mad king set up a city-wide selfdestruct device? And then they all happily jump along to let Ned chop off their heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Wait, wait. Your first paragraph is correct, Jaime doesn't pay much of a price for breaking his vow. Your second paragraph shows a strong Ned bias because Ned doesn't pay much price either for lying/hiding the truth either! You're kidding yourself if you claim Ned paid a stiffer price than Jaime on that account. It's really on the same level of inconvenience. You just dislike one character and like the other. Uh, no. I actually like Jaime much more than I ever liked Ned. He's one of my favorite characters, third behind Jon Snow and Theon. But Ned had to pay a price. Jaime didn't. I simply named off problems that arose because of Ned's decision to claim Jon as his own. I never said it was a 'high' or 'low' price. But at the very least, his decision was a constant strain on his and Cat's marriage and caused friction between them. It was also a dangerous secret that could have cost him his life and the life of his family had it been discovered. He took a huge risk in doing what he did. Jaime should have taken the black. I've seen people grilling Tyrion for being a kinslayer...well, Jaime is a regicide. I don't see how Robert trusted him at all...and really, that was Robert's downfall. But if Jaime had felt that he had no choice and that he was doing the right thing, he should have also done the right thing and refuse to serve Robert and go to the Wall as payment for his actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrovax Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Uh, no. I actually like Jaime much more than I ever liked Ned. He's one of my favorite characters, third behind Jon Snow and Theon. But Ned had to pay a price. Jaime didn't. I simply named off problems that arose because of Ned's decision to claim Jon as his own. I never said it was a 'high' or 'low' price. But at the very least, his decision was a constant strain on his and Cat's marriage and caused friction between them. It was also a dangerous secret that could have cost him his life and the life of his family had it been discovered. He took a huge risk in doing what he did. Jaime should have taken the black. I've seen people grilling Tyrion for being a kinslayer...well, Jaime is a regicide. I don't see how Robert trusted him at all...and really, that was Robert's downfall. But if Jaime had felt that he had no choice and that he was doing the right thing, he should have also done the right thing and refuse to serve Robert and go to the Wall as payment for his actions. The whole of Jaimes character to me really goes to show just how bad this kind of medieval code of honor is. In Jaimes case it puts him in a lose-lose situation where he can either die along with a madman and thousands upon thousands of innocents, or he can kill the man he vowed to protect. There is no scenario where he gets to keep his honor. And I don't know how awesome Jaimes life was at court, now protecting another bad king who beats his sister/lover, fathering children who can never know their real relationship, because it would most likely get them and their mother (And Jaime) killed. I doubt Robert (Or Jon Arryn) would have let Jaime take the black, as it would signal that the new regime is illegitimate, and alienate the wealthiest man in the realm from the get-go. Its one thing for Tywin to have "lost" Jaime to the KG, at least there is some prestige in that, but having him at the wall? Thats a disgrace to the lannister name that Tywin worked so hard to raise from the mud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerWalterPuffsAlot Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 YOURE ALL WRONG, unless you agree with me.. If jaimie said" hey i only did that because he was crazy and gonna kill everyone' his father the 2nd most powerful man in westeros would have said "WTF you were going to fight and possibly kill me if he didnt have wild fire everywhere? WTF dude not cool" .. i picture it going down exactly like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dofs Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 There are two reasons. First:"The knights of the Kingsguard are sworn to keep the king's secrets. Would you have me break my oath?" Second:"Do you think the noble Lord of Winterfell wanted to hear my feeble explanations? Such an honorable man. He only had to look at me to judge me guilty." Straight from the text. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 The whole of Jaimes character to me really goes to show just how bad this kind of medieval code of honor is. In Jaimes case it puts him in a lose-lose situation where he can either die along with a madman and thousands upon thousands of innocents, or he can kill the man he vowed to protect. There is no scenario where he gets to keep his honor. And I don't know how awesome Jaimes life was at court, now protecting another bad king who beats his sister/lover, fathering children who can never know their real relationship, because it would most likely get them and their mother (And Jaime) killed. That's the point. There is no way Jaime wins. There is no way he 'keeps' his honor. But that doesn't mean he couldn't have paid the price for his decision. He's a regicide, and even if that king is the worst piece of scum to walk this earth, he broke the vow he swore to uphold. Jorah Mormont went into exile for less. I doubt Robert (Or Jon Arryn) would have let Jaime take the black, as it would signal that the new regime is illegitimate, and alienate the wealthiest man in the realm from the get-go. Its one thing for Tywin to have "lost" Jaime to the KG, at least there is some prestige in that, but having him at the wall? Thats a disgrace to the lannister name that Tywin worked so hard to raise from the mud. It's not about 'letting' him. It's about 'making' him, or Jaime 'deciding' to do it himself. He should have gone to the Wall. And the Lannisters did a great job of pounding their name into the mud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Because he's a whiny, immature, and entitled brat. "And one.":agree:I mean, seriously. In 15 or.so years, he never once felt it might be a good idea to tell someone that King's Landing was sitting on a tinderbox? Nope, all good here, nothing to worry about, we'll just leave hundreds of jars of extremely dangerous, flamable Wildfire buried beneath the city. Nothing to worry about at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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