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Defending the North


Bryden Tully

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Upon my recent reread of ACOK I found the entire saga in the North quite strange, I've seen bits and pieces answered but I was just wondering if I could hear what you guys think



1)Why did Rodrik not leave more men at winterfell? He had 600 men with him yet he only left a 'token' garrison, surely he could of left 50 men.



2) Did Ramsay attack the Northmen due to orders from Roose or was it due to his own personal revenge (reek affair)



3).Where did Ramsay get 500 mounted men from? I can't see his garrison A) Being that high or b) having enough horses



4)Why did Manderly do more after his men were attacked in winterfell?



Thanks,I'm just having issues working out if I'm missing something or if it's just poorly done


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Upon my recent reread of ACOK I found the entire saga in the North quite strange, I've seen bits and pieces answered but I was just wondering if I could hear what you guys think

1)Why did Rodrik not leave more men at winterfell? He had 600 men with him yet he only left a 'token' garrison, surely he could of left 50 men.

The general consensus is that he either had a senior moment or he's a complete moron.

2) Did Ramsay attack the Northmen due to orders from Roose or was it due to his own personal revenge (reek affair)

Roose already knows about the IB taking WF and killing Bran and Rickon at this point. We see him meeting with the Freys in secret at HH. I think Roose ordered him to take WF once the IB killed fBran and fRickon. Attacking the Northerners who were at the gate was just an improvised plan at that point.

3).Where did Ramsay get 500 mounted men from? I can't see his garrison A) Being that high or B) having enough horses

It was the dreadfort garrison. per Ramsay

“And now, my sweet prince, there was a woman promised me, if I brought two hundred men. Well, I brought three times as many, and no green boys nor fieldhands neither, but my father’s own garrison.”

To be fair, Lady Hornwood warns Bran, Rodrik, and Luwin earlier: “Bolton’s bastard is massing men at the Dreadfort,” she warned them. “I hope he means to take them south to join his father at the Twins, but when I sent to ask his intent, he told me that no Bolton would be questioned by a woman. As if he were trueborn and had a right to that name.”

So it might have been more than the garrison, but it would have been Dreadfort men from nearby lands.

4)Why did Manderly do more after his men were attacked in winterfell?

He had a small force at WF and they had no way to contact him after the battle. They didn't reveal themselves until Stannis 'laid siege' to WF from that crofters village.

Thanks,I'm just having issues working out if I'm missing something or if it's just poorly done

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1) Because plot. That's literally the only explanation and it's the worst part of the entire series.



2) Personal. While the timeline for riding to the Dreadfort and marching back again is already too tight to send a raven, murdering "Bran" and "Rickon" was done without any communication with Roose at all and was the point of no return anyway.



3) It's the Dreadfort garrison during a civil war against the Manderlys over Hornwood lands.



4) Because of time. Robb was dead and Wylis a hostage before the survivors made it back again.


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One strange thing I've never really understood is how on earth did Ramsey, a bastad, convince all the Dreadfort men to attack Rodrik and sack Winterfell? I mean he's a bastad asking petty lords and soldiers to commit treason while their Lord, Bolton, is off campaigning.

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Upon my recent reread of ACOK I found the entire saga in the North quite strange, I've seen bits and pieces answered but I was just wondering if I could hear what you guys think

1)Why did Rodrik not leave more men at winterfell? He had 600 men with him yet he only left a 'token' garrison, surely he could of left 50 men.

2) Did Ramsay attack the Northmen due to orders from Roose or was it due to his own personal revenge (reek affair)

3).Where did Ramsay get 500 mounted men from? I can't see his garrison A) Being that high or B) having enough horses

4)Why did Manderly do more after his men were attacked in winterfell?

Thanks,I'm just having issues working out if I'm missing something or if it's just poorly done

1) idiot ball

2) it's ambiguous

3) the Boltons are a prominent House

4) what do you mean?

As far as 2 goes, I always assumed that Ramsay was trying to impress his father as a parallel to what Theon was doing when he captured Winterfell.

I could see that. Ramsay and Theon share some interesting traits

One strange thing I've never really understood is how on earth did Ramsey, a bastad, convince all the Dreadfort men to attack Rodrik and sack Winterfell? I mean he's a bastad asking petty lords and soldiers to commit treason while their Lord, Bolton, is off campaigning.

It is strange, as is "save me the Freys", unless Roose actually gave the order

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Maybe Ramsey had a Pink Letter of his own to show them. As in he forged a letter from his father to himself to get them to comply.

Extremely risky and reckless, even for him.

I think the idea that Roose and Ramsay committed their two great crimes (sacking Winterfell and the Red Wedding) coincidentally, with no communication, is a little far-fetched

But then again so is the whole "Theon takes Wintefell" arc, as Bright Blue Eyes said

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One strange thing I've never really understood is how on earth did Ramsey, a bastad, convince all the Dreadfort men to attack Rodrik and sack Winterfell? I mean he's a bastad asking petty lords and soldiers to commit treason while their Lord, Bolton, is off campaigning.

Roose had already brought him to the Dreadfort and made him heir in all but name. Plus he had already "convinced" Dreadfort men to seize Lady Hornwood and fight for her land.

Either Roose gave him run of the place (and his sword swords) when he went south, or there was communication between Roose and the Dreadfort 'making it so.'

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This. Additionally, I would think that word of Ramsay's betrayal would've gotten out.

Who would have spread it?

Luwin was the only one with access to ravens. He was killed.

The Northern forces were scattered and their leaders murdered. Best case scenario is they get to the Cerwyn castle and get a raven out. That of course dismissed out of hand trying to run away from men on horse trying to kill them. The other forces had much farther to run or nowhere to go (without going hundreds of miles). Even if they did get word out, it's their word against Warden of the North and his new heir.

There's a good chance it did happen, hence the whole Northern Conspiracy. However nothing in the text is anything beyond casually hinted at. That's why Wex is introduced.

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Who would have spread it?

Luwin was the only one with access to ravens. He was killed.

The Northern forces were scattered and their leaders murdered. Best case scenario is they get to the Cerwyn castle and get a raven out. That of course dismissed out of hand trying to run away from men on horse trying to kill them. The other forces had much farther to run or nowhere to go (without going hundreds of miles). Even if they did get word out, it's their word against Warden of the North and his new heir.

There's a good chance it did happen, hence the whole Northern Conspiracy. However nothing in the text is anything beyond casually hinted at. That's why Wex is introduced.

There were many survivors from Rodrik Cassel's force that scattered. I'm not saying that the whole North knew, but some people in the areas close to Winterfell would've heard about it. Also, Wex was introduced to tell of Bran and Rickon's survival.

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There were many survivors from Rodrik Cassel's force that scattered. I'm not saying that the whole North knew, but some people in the areas close to Winterfell would've heard about it. Also, Wex was introduced to tell of Bran and Rickon's survival.

It wouldn't have gotten out to anyone that mattered, at least not that we can even remotely hint at yet.

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It wouldn't have gotten out to anyone that mattered, at least not that we can even remotely hint at yet.

Most wouldn't have heard of it, and those that did only as a mere rumor. However, it's safe to say that some of the northmen with Stannis have heard about it, as a significant number of the survivors joined his army.

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1)Why did Rodrik not leave more men at winterfell? He had 600 men with him yet he only left a 'token' garrison, surely he could of left 50 men.

1. All of the men that Ned took south were lost.

2. Robb took most of the WF men w/ him, so it was only a token force to begin w/.

3. The Castle and Forts the Ironmen were attacking, sent most of their men south w/ Robb, so Rodrik had a duty to do all he could to protect them.

4. As someone tried to tell Theon, WF was to far inland for the Ironmen to support any force that took it.

5. Rodrik was naïve enough to think that all the North was w/ them.

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Upon my recent reread of ACOK I found the entire saga in the North quite strange, I've seen bits and pieces answered but I was just wondering if I could hear what you guys think

1)Why did Rodrik not leave more men at winterfell? He had 600 men with him yet he only left a 'token' garrison, surely he could of left 50 men.

He didn't have 600 men at Winterfell, he had to raise that number from there and the surrounding holdfasts.

We dont know how many men were left at Wiinterfell but obviously he thought the threat at Torrhens square was very high and warranted such an action.

He gets criticized because the reader knows it was meant to be an distraction and how many men Dagmar had.

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One strange thing I've never really understood is how on earth did Ramsey, a bastad, convince all the Dreadfort men to attack Rodrik and sack Winterfell? I mean he's a bastad asking petty lords and soldiers to commit treason while their Lord, Bolton, is off campaigning.

He was made castellan of the Dreadfort and leader of the civil war against Manderly by Roose months earlier.

There were many survivors from Rodrik Cassel's force that scattered. I'm not saying that the whole North knew, but some people in the areas close to Winterfell would've heard about it. Also, Wex was introduced to tell of Bran and Rickon's survival.

I's a mere six weeks between Ramsay's attack on Rodrik Cassel and the Red Wedding. Even under the best of circumstances, that would require someone travelling to White Harbour or some other rookery to be extremely fast (excluding Castle Cerwyn, but that one lost his Lord anyway). With riders pursuing the survivors, it becomes basically impossible to reach in time.

In time is the keyword here. Roose knew he lived on borrowed time and had to get rid of Robb and the Northern army before the news got out.

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