Heresy 134 The Faceless Men

[Black Crow]

But one explanation for Jaqen's Red god invocation might be really simple. The Faceless aren't really supposed to be announcing themselves as Faceless. The "three deaths owed" is likely in line with the Faceless' beliefs, but dressing it up as a R'hllorist exchange obfuscates the fact that it's really Death being paid here. I'm curious if Arya saved them from Drowning whether Jaqen might have cited owing the Drowned God...

...I don't think Jaqen necessarily holds the Red god in higher esteem either, but citing the Red god specifically as being owed 3 deaths is inconsistent with the Faceless. Unless the Faceless see R'hllor as one of Death's faces (which seems unlikely, as "the Great Other" is the Red's face of death), then Jaqen is substituting R'hllor for "Death" here.

I think this is the most likely answer. They do after all look to the god of many faces and accommodate those who turn up seeking death each according to their own beliefs. In this case it would indeed be not unreasonable for those who die by fire to be dedicated to the Red God just as Balon Greyjoy went to the Drowned God.

[butterbumps!]

Something that struck me is that the phrase “Valar Morghulis” is more commonly associated with the FM than the addendum, “valar Dohaeris” or all men must serve. IIRC, from AFFC, the Kindly Man says, “Valar Morghulis is what they said in Valyria, but Valar Dohaeris is what we say here.” It’s possible that this and much else is part of the inculcation process for acolytes but I feel that it remains a strong cornerstone of their belief system. This second phrase stuck with me as hinting at the FM code and being relatively unexplored. I would say the FM are very like the Jedi- their “loss of self” is a very Buddhist sublimation of the self, that is the recognition of the illusory nature of one’s desires and very identity, as well as a detachment from such desires. They would point to Anakin’s fall as a classic example of fighting fate and attempting to impose one’s selfish whims upon an indifferent natural order- this same criticism is leveled against Arya, when she suggests killing the loan shark’s guards- that they have not been chosen. This to me implies both a practical concern- teaching her to minimized the body count, think creatively, and choose a more subtle method- and also a consideration that it is not their place to end men’s lives. Good and evil, all men must die- but as mere agents of the God’s Will they cannot choose to end a life unless it is in accordance with the design of the heavens/etc. All men must serve- all men must know their place, their fate, their purpose. The time and manner of a man’s death is a major part of his destiny. Furthermore all men must serve- but what? All men have duties, responsibilities, etc. which they must fulfill.

My theory is this- that the Faceless men choose a new face and name for every kill- that they assume a persona, are “born” as an alias, for the sole destiny of killing the target and/or completing the mission. Arya’s execution of Daario was not punished because Arya Stark of Winterfell was a “face” destined to kill a deserter, at least according to her warped and half-baked child’s-version of the concept of duty. Arya does not understand that as a lady she would not be expected to execute a deserter. She does not understand why deserters must be executed. She does not consider that they might need a trial. All she understands is that Dareon is a deserter- a man who upsets the Natural Order by openly rejecting his duty as a man of the Night’s Watch, arguably the worst sin any man could commit under the Faceless Man/Eastern mindset (I would argue that the Old Gods and/or Starks also have a similar ethos)- and that as a Stark it was her duty to correct the imbalance by killing him. This coincided with the Faceless Man’s beliefs that she, as a persona with a duty to killing deserters, was acting in accordance with the Many Faced God’s whims. She served the god and so was “rewarded” with a progression in training.

I also wonder as to why people think Jaquen has gone rogue. The common argument seems to be that he ignored the precepts that Arya were told- namely about not choosing who to kill. The common response to that argument is that as an acolyte she is given the “kiddie version” while a presumably well-ranking and experienced master on long-term assignment is given considerable independence by default. While undoubtedly true I also feel that it assumes that there is indeed a contradiction between what Arya is told and what Jaquen does. What was Jaquen doing? There are four-and-a-half theories, which I will discuss.

First, the thought goes, he was assigned to go to the Wall. I do believe that the FM will view the Others as an abomination, and will be keeping an eye on the Wall. However they would not need to go to such lengths as imprisoning one of their own do do that- send a man to Eastwatch disguised as a northerner and have him there as long term cover.

A second thought is that he was sent to assassinate someone, perhaps Aemon. Just as with the wall scenario this can be dismissed on the grounds of being overly elaborate- why not just send a man to the Wall directly or even to White harbor onward?

My personal theory is that he was initially hired by Varys to take care of (or “take care of”) Lord Stark. This assignment got Joffreyed, yet he did not desert or move on. Why? Because, Jaqen Hghar, a name and a Face chosen for a specific task. That task was bust, but in accordance with the FM ideals he still had a task to perform- “The God sent him here”, and even if the details were not entirely accurate he still had a Moral Imperative to fulfill his duty as Jaquen Hgar before he could assume a new mantle and a new mission. This mantle, to me, turned out to be Arya Stark.

Jaquen’s actions with respect to the “debt” stand as a stark demonstration that the FM do indeed take their religious code VERY SERIOUSLY. Whether or not he intended to recruit her immediately, he had a debt to fulfill- that is, Jaquen’s destiny was to balance the ledgers, repay the three lives saved with three lives owed. I don’t think even he was entirely sure about what he was doing nor do I think he cared- his thoughts were presumably quite Jedi-like/mystical, and tracking down Arya seemed to be the sole extent of what he intended to do- and like a proper Jedi servant of the MFG he would obediently follow the will of the Force the whims of the God even if he didn’t know where it would lead. Arya’s blackmail is actually sort of stupid UNLESS the FM take their religion so seriously that a 3 deaths for three lives oath includes offing themselves. In other words they are serious enough to kill themselves if that is what their god/duty/oath/mission demands. This is as far removed from the cynical assassins with Death-Cult pseudo-mysticism as you can possibly get.

No sooner did he complete his task/duty than he changes his face and departs, presumably for the Citadel. Jaquen Hgar is as dead as Arry. He served his purpose. A new face and a new name meant a new destiny, a new mission for him.

I agree with you about the parallels you see wrt the Faceless and our own religions; I've always gotten a very "Eastern" vibe. And like you, I don't see them as simple assassins. I think there's something much more complex and even harmonious going on.

I think that "Valar Dohearis" is simply the response to "Valar Morghulis." It always follows, and doesn't seem to be an addendum added according to location.

I'm not sure if I quite see the Faceless as destiny-oriented, though. I get what you're saying in that each new face is a new person with a specific goal, and that I agree with. I'm not sure that I see destiny as an over-arching precept of the Faceless, however. They might reconcile it more like their becoming ersatz "dark angels" or something similar rather than calling it a destiny.

Jaqen may not be rogue. But some of his actions appear contrary to what the KM tells Arya, so for the time being, I think looking at these separately might be the "safest" course of study. It's more an issue where I'm cautious about applying Jaqen's actions back onto the Faceless as a whole for the time being.

I tend to agree that Ned is a good guess for the original target, but I'm not entirely sure that Varys wanted him to die. If Varys wanted him to die, we can deduce that he didn't want it to happen at the Lannister's hands, because he didn't want the acceleration of hostilities at that point in time. So that makes sense. However, Ned might actually be someone that Varys would want around in the event Aegon was brought back. I'm not actually sure Varys' incentive to kill Ned was all that high.

Additionally, I'd also posit that it doesn't make much sense to have Jaqen chained into the wagon if he was actually supposed to kill someone prior to getting to the Wall. If this was staged, then Jaqen shouldn't have been in the Black cells, which resulted in his being kept in that wagon. If the idea is that he'd be let out once at the Wall to perform a kill, then why not just pretend to be a random Northern poacher and go straight to the Wall?

I wonder how standard Arya's training is really conducted. The fact remains that she is not no one like most acolytes but someone with identy (high birth, Stark) and someone with a unique skill (warging). Time is of the essence and it might be that the kindly man is turning a blind eye (pun intended) to some of her shortcomings and cut some corners in her training.

Where do most of the acolytes come from? I had the impression that most end up there in a similar fashion to the Waif, who was given by her father in sacrifice, (or that their service was part of their own sacrifice) but I may be mistaken about whether this is the norm. Then, of course, there's the iron coins for recruits, though I'm curious how often that's invoked.

As much as I love and want to trust the KM, I am a bit cautious about whether he might have some unsanctioned agenda for Arya. I'm not sure what it is yet, though the warging ability is what concerns me. I go back and forth about how he'd react if he knew for a certainty. He may even suspect.

I'm not certain that the KM is turning a blind eye to her failures. I actually think he might be tailoring the order/ intensity of training according to where she excels and where she needs work. Becoming no one takes years of training presumably. I'm inclined to believe that certain failures are expected, and just part of the training process, and I lean toward the idea that he's just tailoring the lessons to those.

And this:

http://vimeo.com/37778819

lol, so all men are Death Eaters?

[butterbumps!]

I think this is the most likely answer. They do after all look to the god of many faces and accommodate those who turn up seeking death each according to their own beliefs. In this case it would indeed be not unreasonable for those who die by fire to be dedicated to the Red God just as Balon Greyjoy went to the Drowned God.

Yea, I tend to think so. But you know what's funny about this-- none of those 3 (or anyone in weasel soup) ends up being given to R'hllor! If R'hllor was the one robbed, then you'd think death by fire would be the punchline, right? Balon's given to the Drowned God for sure, but the 3-for-3 repayment has nothing to do with the Red God. It does seem like a veneer of sorts on Jaqen's part to obfuscate the fact that Death is really the one paid.

[King of Winters]

Jaqen H'gar introduces a number of complications which bear further thought, but as to his references to the Red God I wonder if we are over-complicating things and confusing philosophy with religion.

The Faceless Men it would appear are not fussy about where they obtain their recruits and instead like contemporary cults will attract people susceptible to what they offer and then break them down as individuals in order to re-mould them as faithful and often uncritical members of the community, as seen by the recruitment and training of Arya and the "who are you?" business. Yet just as Arya retains some of herself, Jaqen's references to the Red God may reflect his origins rather than his present allegiances.

I think that the Faceless Men respect all religions, as they all have a god of death and they don't question whether one is more real or not.

Jaquen was going to die by fire, a trait we see with Mels in burning people as sacrifices to R'hllor. Jaquen respects their religion, as do the other Faceless Men, and has to honour Him by giving Him the three deaths that should have been His by fire.

And great essay butterbumps!

[Arya Havinfun]

@Arya Havinfun: So how do you read the Ghost of High Heart's vision about the man without a face? I think this is the primary reason that most readers are convinced that Euron hired a Faceless to kill Balon, since the GoHH's visions seem to be accurate.

I agree that it's by no means necessary for the assassination to have been executed by a Faceless, but I do have a certain faith in the GoHH!

GoHH:

“I dreamt of a man without a face, waiting on a bridge that swayed and swung. On his shoulder perched a drowned crow with seaweed hanging from his wings.”

[AsoS, §22, Arya]

“A man without a face” doesn’t exclusively have to refer to a Faceless Man, despite what the Wiki says.

It could refer to:

• a man without a known identity, e.g., an unknown catspaw like Bran’s assailant

an unseen man, i.e., one whose presence went undetected by others,

a servant who is so much a part of the ordinary background that no one notices his movements,

a man whose face has been disfigured out of recognition by scars,

• covered in tattoos,

disguised with makeup,

glamoured,

hooded or masked, etc.

The “drowned crow with seaweed hanging” might conceivably refer to either Euron or Aeron, as they each were initiated into familial Ironborn religious training, but Euron is definitely the “crow” and “from his wings” specifies Euron again because Euron can “fly”. The part about “on his shoulder” reinforces the “riding” or warging nature of the encounter.

So, we can speculate that

• the invisible spirit of Euron waited on the bridge for Balon to attempt his normal crossing,

or a stealthily disguised henchman seeking promotion snuck onto the bridge

or we can imagine a warged henchman who got into the castle and onto the bridge without anyone noticing,

or even a normal servant in the castle who got warged, pushed Balon, then vanished back into service without remembering/revealing participation in the murder.

I don’t see enough evidence to decide which of these options is the absolutely correct reading, but I don’t think that level of fine detail matters to GoHH’s dream. Balon is dead regardless, and Euron is the one who made it happen for his own personal and political ambition. (That personal benefit factor also makes the hiring of a Faceless Man unlikely, as indicated by BB!'s essays.)

I love GoHH, too, but she can be as misleadingly cryptic as any other prophet. E.g., “I dreamt of a maid at a feast with purple serpents in her hair, venom dripping from their fangs.” As I recall, there were no snakes involved at all, not even in the origin of the poison in her hairnet, yet I’m pretty confident this dream referred specifically to Sansa at the Purple Wedding.

[ShadowCat Rivers]

Great essays and very interesting ideas in the comments as well...

I'm not an "heretic" myself but I am very interested in this particular topic. For the most part, I agree with the analysis - especially the first part. But I want to raise two points of "objection":

1. The doom of Valyria

There are two ways to view KOM's line “He would bring the gift to them as well... but that is a tale for another day, one best shared with no one.”

One interpretation is the Doom and another is the story about giving the "gift" to the master and the "birth" of the second FM.

One reason to tend towards the second is that I don't think we have been given much ground to believe that the FM's magic is anything close to the CotF's. The other is that an action such as the Doom is not very much in line with the FM's filosophy; as far as we've seen, the "gift" is given selectively whereas the doom of Valyria is something so massive and leveling that I can't see how it can fit into the many-faced God's criteria.

2. Jaqen's change of face as opposed to the "Ugly girl" ritual

I think it was not an application of face in the FM way, but rather the use of glamor. As the KOM said to Arya, "[...] sorcerers use glamors, weaving light and shadow and desire to make illusions that trick the eye. These arts you shall learn [...]", so glamors are indeed a part of Jaqen's "arsenal" and can be used when necessary.

Other than that, what I find extremely interesting about the FM is their concept of god/religion. They are almost a meta-religion, an application of the aphorism "man created god in his own image".

The FM are not exactly a religion in the ordinary meaning; most religions (try to) deal with all aspects of life, including death.

{ Even in R'hllorism, the Lord of Light is, among everything else, the god of (physical) death as -in their view- this is not the "true" death since they believe in afterlife: "Better that they be reborn into the light" Selyse says about Hardhome so physical death is not of the Great Other's realm. }

On the contrary, the FM aknowledge the validity of all religions (like good Braavosi) and encompass into their own, all religions' views about one single aspect of life, which is death.

But IMO, the most interesting and unique concept that makes them so "meta" is found in the following passage:

It was release they asked for, an end to pain. A small thing, and simple. Yet their gods made no answer, and their suffering went on. Are their gods all deaf? he wondered... until a realization came upon him, one night in the red darkness.

“All gods have their instruments, men and women who serve them and help to work their will on earth. The slaves were not crying out to a hundred different gods, as it seemed, but to one god with a hundred different faces... and he was that god’s instrument. That very night he chose the most wretched of the slaves, the one who had prayed most earnestly for release, and freed him from his bondage. The first gift had been given.”

It is a common concept that gods chose humans for their instruments to do their work. Sometimes even, some people "hear voices" of a god asking them to do his will (an example in the books is shipwrecked Davos on his rock, hearing the Mother's voice). But the first FM (and by extent, the FM in general) was never an unwitting instrument nor did he hear any divine voice; His actions and his path, the FM's path, has always been a very conscious choice. Much like backwards engineering: instead of god's will driving human action, what we have with the FM is human action leading backwards to god's will.

It's also important IMO that they are notably consistent in this concept of gods, as related to their views on other gods: their "own" god does not judge, but other gods do... but how? It seems to me that, in the same way they see themselves as the many-faced god's instruments (and therefore they do not judge) they might also see those who come to pray for giving the gift to an other as instruments of the other gods, the ones who do judge. So, it's actually the humans who make the judgement on whether someone deserves to die, again leading backwards to some god's assessment.

ETA: I wonder, why the Heresy threads are in this section of the forum? Generally I don't come here and I saw this thread only by chance...

[Phillip Frye]

Feast for Crows chapter 8 Jaime - its the first Jaime one.

"The black cells are little used. Before your lordship's little brother was sent down, we had Grand Maester Pycelle for a time, and before him Lord Stark the traitor. There were three others, common men, but Lord Stark gave them to the Night's Watch. I did not think it good to free those three, but the papers were in proper order. I made a note of that in a report as well, you may be certain of it."

There is still the timeline problem in that Deaddard (who was still in power) released the three men (including the Lorathi) from the cells. I take it that you resolve this issue by having Syrio thrown in the cells with the unfortunate Lorathi, killing him, and then assuming his identity (just like in The Thing). If that is so, why doesn't someone ever mention the dramatic escape from the Black Cells by the former First Sword of Braavvos? Why isn't there an unaccounted for body left in the Black Cells? It seems that Longwaters would have mentioned this discrepancy, especially because he likes to be thorough with his accounting.

[addicted to snow]

Yes, Had she saved the 3 men from Drowning, Jaqen would have cited the Drowned Gods…

The Red God's name only came up because there happened to be a fire...

I don't think Jaqen necessarily holds the Red god in higher esteem either, but citing the Red god specifically as being owed 3 deaths is inconsistent with the Faceless. Unless the Faceless see R'hllor as one of Death's faces (which seems unlikely, as "the Great Other" is the Red's face of death), then Jaqen is substituting R'hllor for "Death" here.

Like I said above, he might be appealing to the language of the R'hllorist religion to hide the fact that he's a Faceless-- No one but the Faceless worship death, so he'd be revealing himself if he appealed to Death as the god owed directly, I'd think.

I think that you are over-thinking this… Arya had no idea who the Faceless Men were at this point, so citing 'The Red God' as opposed to "The Gods" did not really hide anything from her.

I lean toward the idea that Jaqen's giving Arya a lesson, not repaying the 3 for 3. Jaqen clearly states that "now a man must die" right after the Harrenhal takeover.

Well, Jaqen's full quote clearly states: "A God Has his due, and now a man must die"… In other words "A God has been paid, and now a man must die"

Not to mention that he had already clearly pointed out who the 3rd death was to Arya & the reader…

I don't mean to argue, but the text could not be more straightforward with regards to the 3rd death...

-- What about the fact that Jaqen/Arya's death count went beyond 3? If Jaqen were truly Death's Accountant, would he not have to go & save some people from dying?

[blacken]

Really enjoy the FM a lot and this has been fun to read. With regard to the discussion of Jaqan being in the black cells, what he has been up to, whether he was on a mission, citing R'hollor and so forth, would anyone give any credence to the idea that Martin had simply not developed the philosophy and training of the FM thoroughly enough at this point to make sure that all of Jaqan's behaviour matched up exactly with Arya's later training?

And secondly is it beyond him to have hoped that why Jaqan was in the black cells to begin with is a mystery we wouldn't think to much about. The clear intent of having Jaqan be a prisoner from the black cells is to set him up as a dangerous man and one that Arya should potentially fear.

I also wanted to add that we are nowhere told that all FM must only be abroad with a singular mission. Perhaps Jaqan did not genuinely have a mission at that point but was gathering information, learning about Westeros, or developing skills he lacked. Not saying I necessarily believe this but his approach throughout Arya's story seems to be very much 'go with the flow' and unhurried.

[addicted to snow]

Feast for Crows chapter 8 Jaime - its the first Jaime one.

"The black cells are little used. Before your lordship's little brother was sent down, we had Grand Maester Pycelle for a time, and before him Lord Stark the traitor. There were three others, common men, but Lord Stark gave them to the Night's Watch. I did not think it good to free those three, but the papers were in proper order. I made a note of that in a report as well, you may be certain of it."

This makes it very complicated & very difficult for Syrio to be Jaqen in my opinion… The events that would have had to happen as I see them are:

1. Syrio defeats Merion Tryant (I have no problem with this)

Syrio would have had to have been watching when Yoren grabbed Arya (or little birds were watching)

Syrio then obtains information that 3 men in the black cells are going North with Yoren (Varys would be the only way possible)

Syrio then infiltrates the Black Cells(Not a problem if Varys is in on things)

Kills Lorathi Sellsword (easily believed, and would also explain other prisoner's fear & respect fot Jaqen)

Assumes Lorathi Sellsword's face/identity (easily believed)

Disposes of Lorathi Sellsword's body (Not a problem if Varys is in on things)

So, as I see it, Black Crow… This quote that you have provided leads us (or at least me) to the conclusion that Syrio can only be Jaqen if Varys is working with him...

--

I can definitely understand why Varys would want to keep tabs on the Lord Parmaount of the North's Daughter, but I will have to think on this some more before deciding if this is a theory that I can still support or not.

[Black Crow]

There is still the timeline problem in that Deaddard (who was still in power) released the three men (including the Lorathi) from the cells. I take it that you resolve this issue by having Syrio thrown in the cells with the unfortunate Lorathi, killing him, and then assuming his identity (just like in The Thing). If that is so, why doesn't someone ever mention the dramatic escape from the Black Cells by the former First Sword of Braavvos? Why isn't there an unaccounted for body left in the Black Cells? It seems that Longwaters would have mentioned this discrepancy, especially because he likes to be thorough with his accounting.

I'm not sure that there is a problem here and in fact the points raised only strengthen the suspicion that all isn't as it seems and that something funny is going on. In the first place Longwaters has clearly lost the plot and his paperwork is ineffectually covering that up. Not only has he certainly lost one prisoner but as Jaime unkindly points out, he hasn't yet recorded the fact.

He also seems curiously defensive about the three prisoners taken by Yoren. If they were only "common men" why is he so keen to stress it wasn't his idea to release them and only did so because he was obeying orders and written ones at that? What he conspicuously doesn't do is say that they were included in a general culling, they had release orders all of their own. Its in the records. Why do they matter to him - its not as if they ran amuck and did something heinous once he'd let them go.

The timeline may not be a problem either. Ned allowed Yoren to take his pick, but did he really choose to take three men so dangerous he needed to shackle them in a wagon or were they wished on him. In either event I wouldn't see him physically taking them out of the cells until he was ready to go. Yoren got Arya out of King's Landing by concealing her amongst all the other "volunteers". Was the same true of Jaqen H'gar? Was a single fugitive slipped out as one of three shackled men?

[Phillip Frye]

Addicted to Hescox is right. The timeline doesn't work, and to make it "work", we have to have Varys actively smuggling Jaqen H'ghar/Syrio Forel out of King's Landing through the Black Cells. Otherwise, there is an unaccounted dead Lorathi sellsword. Only Varys could plausibly cover that up.

ETA: I say this because Varys is intimately knowledgeable about everything that happens under the Red Keep. It's his domain, not Longwaters'.

[Phillip Frye]

By the way, I strongly doubt that Martin is ever going to give us a straight answer (within the books) about whether Syrio Forel and Jaqen H'ghar are the same person, even by Book 11, which incidentally will be released when Martin is as old as Roy Dotrice is now.

[smashedhalo]

(Crackpot idea disclaimer)

Could JH have been sent by the faceless men against the priests of R'lhor? Then possibly the red priest knowing they have a talented assassin turned JH to their cause.

Timeline wise we have Mellisandra and Jaquen in westros at right around the same moment. Could be they arrived on the same ship.

Mel admits to using tricks to sway peoples minds. If she or others higher in the order saw in the flames that stanis was the path to AAR and he would need to be talked into starting down the path. For example if Stanis requested the death of an enemy in KL. Point of fact Renly was sitting on the small council in KL right up until Robert died. If Renly died, be it done overtly or covertly, Mel can take credit and Stanis inherits Storms End with all it's holdings. JH seems to be able to get out of a lot and gets dealt relatively good hands by fate. Awaiting death for a crime(never mentioned) in the black cells to be taken North by the Night's Watch only to end up free again after the band(known neutrals) gets attacked. JH is in positions to strick down many people in high places. Anyone in KL could have been a target. He could have been captured moving into place in someones house guard, left alive in the black cells to try and get the name of who sent him. At Harrenhall he is near Twyin and most of the Lannester military command. The only reason he stuck around is he owed Arya a life debt. So for most of the story he is near Stanis opposition.

Glamours are shown used by both FM and R'hlor followers so exclusivity is out. Both FM and follows of the Red God use items, as explained by Mel, to make the glamour stronger i.e. the face masks and the Lord of Bones bones.

But only R'hlor shows complete disregard for loss of life to accomplish a task i.e. Mequoro starts out on a ship doomed to storms and slaver attacks to be on his way to myreene.

And one would think after gaining these skills from the FM he might send on a replacement to them.

Or a possibility is the Red Priests hired the FM to make some wishes come true

[addicted to snow]

I'm not sure that there is a problem here and in fact the points raised only strengthen the suspicion that all isn't as it seems and that something funny is going on. In the first place Longwaters has clearly lost the plot and his paperwork is ineffectually covering that up. Not only has he certainly lost one prisoner but as Jaime unkindly points out, he hasn't yet recorded the fact.

He also seems curiously defensive about the three prisoners taken by Yoren. If they were only "common men" why is he so keen to stress it wasn't his idea to release them and only did so because he was obeying orders and written ones at that? What he conspicuously doesn't do is say that they were included in a general culling, they had release orders all of their own. Its in the records. Why do they matter to him - its not as if they ran amuck and did something heinous once he'd let them go.

The timeline may not be a problem either. Ned allowed Yoren to take his pick, but did he really choose to take three men so dangerous he needed to shackle them in a wagon or were they wished on him. In either event I wouldn't see him physically taking them out of the cells until he was ready to go. Yoren got Arya out of King's Landing by concealing her amongst all the other "volunteers". Was the same true of Jaqen H'gar? Was a single fugitive slipped out as one of three shackled men?

Holy Crap, Black Crow maybe on to something… lets take another look at the quote:

"The black cells are little used. Before your lordship's little brother was sent down, we had Grand Maester Pycelle for a time, and before him Lord Stark the traitor. There were three others, common men, but Lord Stark gave them to the Night's Watch. I did not think it good to free those three, but the papers were in proper order. I made a note of that in a report as well, you may be certain of it."

"I made a note of that in a report as well"… Just what exactly was the subject of this report? An unaccounted for corpse missing his face in the cell with these 3 'common men'?

"I did not think it was good to free those three"… Why not? there are no prisoners to speak of, so they clearly have freed everyone else… Is this because he found these 3 'common men' sitting inside of a cell with a corpse who's face had been cut off?

Nice work Black Crow… Of course I'm sure Wolfmaid7 will now claim it was her theory like she does on everything else...

[Syri0_F0rel]

This is more circumstantial than I usually post:

there is a rare chance jaqen hghar could warg.

the night arya escapes harrenhall she goes to the gods wood, breaks her wooden sword and says she is a direwolf and now uses steel teeth. She hears a howl, quite possibly nymeria. Then as she sneaks off to kill the guards. En route a cat walking a wall of the gods wood hisses at her and she is remninded of KL and syrio and whispers that she could catch him but has work to do. After her kill a wolf howls again.

I wonder if the cat on the wall was warged jaqen. Again, zero evidence just the coincidence of her warging a cat to catch the kindly man later.

I am fishing for explanations to: if syrio is jaqen and they have a long game for arya, why leave her at harrenhall where she could easily be killed under similar fate of countless small folk she has witnessed killed. maybe if he was still watching her through a cat he could protect her if needed.

It is possible the FM like wargs since I am sure the super observent FM jaqen could read her warging face as she dreamed.

[Arya Havinfun]

It is possible the FM like wargs since I am sure the super observent FM jaqen could read her warging face as she dreamed.

What makes you suspect Arya displays an identifiable 'warging face as she dreamed'?

[Syri0_F0rel]

The amount of time her and Waif spend training to observe human faces. On one or two occasions she feels jaqen can read her thoughts. He knows shes arya stark when only her and gendry discussed it (and im sure he heard her yell winterfell at dary) So its a guess.

To counter myself: how people look warging I dont think is ever described. Jojen felt bran in summer but I cant recall anyone describe a warged face. i dont think its like the show.

I have also wondered if Luwin still believes in magic, has observed and heard bran discuss wolf dreams and is fighting to supress them.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

Very nice essay Butterbumps!

I used to think the Faceless men were just Assasins but this essay made me rethink them.

I also like your idea of the hood and it's subversion of warging.

I also wonder how the faceless men obtained this ability, considering they were freed slaves from Valyria one would expect that if they were to do any magic it would derive from Valyria's type pf magic whic is blood and fire.

[aDanceWithFlagons]

The way Arya is trained to wear the face of another to see through someones face/memories is similar to Bran's training to wear the face of the heart trees. Once one learns to use the face of the weirwood, one can use any other tree. I think this is basically what is happening with Jaqen and other FM operatives and eventually Arya. At first they need to actually wear the mask. After experienced practice they can Use any face they see without physically putting on the skin. Very basic stuff.