A request for a compilation of all secret Targaryen theories

[Qhorin Halfhand and Yoren]

Add all theories about secret Targaryens in this thread that people genuinely believe in.

I want to find how many of these secret Targaryens are there in Westeros. Here are those I remember so focus on new ones:

Jaime and Cersei are Aerys children. I don't buy this but I can see the semblance of logic here. If true I guess Joffrey, Tommen and Myrcella are secret Targaryen bastards too.

Tyrion is Aerys child and a Targaryen, again I don't agree with it but there is even more of something resembling logic with this than the above.

Mance is Rhaegar: What

Add any more of them.

Edit: I forgot about Jon Snow since it didn't even register as a theory but sure he is indeed a secret Targaryen.

[Aerys Blackfyre]

I know only about R+L=J and about the Lannister siblings

but recently I heard one about Dany not being a Targ

[Ser Leftwich]

Everyone is a secret Targaryen. Except the only known living Targaryen, Dany. She can't possibly be a Targaryen.

[King17]

I think I read a theory claiming that bran was actually bloodravens son

[The Bastard of Walton]

Quaithe could be Shiera Seastar a Great Bastard of the Targ line

[UnmaskedLurker]

Add all theories about secret Targaryens in this thread that people genuinely believe in.

I want to find how many of these secret Targaryens are there in Westeros. Here are those I remember so focus on new ones:

Jaime and Cersei are Aerys children. I don't buy this but I can see the semblance of logic here. If true I guess Joffrey, Tommen and Myrcella are secret Targaryen bastards too.

Tyrion is Aerys child and a Targaryen, again I don't agree with it but there is even more of something resembling logic with this than the above.

Mance is Rhaegar: What

Add any more of them.

Edit: I forgot about Jon Snow since it didn't even register as a theory but sure he is indeed a secret Targaryen.

In my view there must be two -- and only two -- secret Targs. I believe that the prophecy that the dragon has three heads means that three people who are "of House Targ" (not necessarily Targaryen, but with a Targaryen parent) will be the 3HD. While there are many characters with some dragon blood (e.g., Stannis's grandmother was a Targ), very few are actual children of a Targ. So those characters don't qualify to be a head of the dragon. At the beginning of the series, there are 4 characters that we eventually learn are the children of a Targ. Two of them, Viserys and Aemon, are dead. Bloodraven is only sort of alive, and is really in no shape to be one of the heads of the dragon. So that leaves Dany.

With Dany as one head of the dragon, we need two more. Without any other known characters who have been revealed to have a Targ parent, I believe there needs to be two more characters with a Targ parent who can serve as the other two heads of the dragon. Some might argue Aegon is a Targ, but I believe that while he has dragon blood (Blackfyre and/or Brightflame, etc.), I do not think he is the child of a Targ. Young Griff also has not been made a major enough character is the series to become a head of the dragon -- i.e., one of the endgame heroes who wins the Battle for the Dawn 2.0.

So who could these other 2 "secret" Targs be. I think it is obvious -- Jon (R+L=J) and Tyrion (A+J=T). The series needs these two to be secret Targs but needs no other secret Targs (and doubt there will be any other secret Targs). Other theories of secret Targs (like Cersei and Jaime) will not bear out.

[Kienn]

If having Targ blood makes you a Targaryen then everyone really is a Targ.

Mothers matter too, and plenty of Targ daughters have married into other families. Their daughters marry into yet other families... Etc.

Add the thousands of bastards bred by horny Targ males and the millions of their bastards' bastards... Pretty much covers everyone in Westeros.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Quaithe as Sheira

Mel as Sheira

Mel as Sheira and Bloodraven's daughter

Mance as Bloodraven's grandson (or later)--that one's mine

Daario the Blackfyre--also mine

Hot Pie, the Baker that was Promised

Sam Tarly, the Prince that was Promised

Dany as Rhaegar's daughter, thus still a Targaryen but with Lyanna or Ashara as her mother

Dany as Bonifer Hasty's daughter, thus still a Targaryen because Rhaella is her mother

Jon as the son of Aerys and Lyanna

Tyrion as the son of Rhaegar and Joanna

Meera Reed as Jon's twin, R+L=J&M

Did I miss any that weren't already in the OP?

[SummerSphinx]

The books imply that Aerys had his way with many women at court. We are not given a number, but Maggi foretold 16 bastard for Robert. Not sure if that number is too high for Aerys, but even if we cut it down to one third, that still leaves about 5. Just saying.

Cercei says Aurane Waters looks remarkably like Rhaegar, even though his coloring makes him sound half Lannister (if I recall correctly). I assume she means his features look like Rhaegar's, which I think is stronger connection than coloring. He is much younger than Cercei.

So if bastards count as dragonblood, and I think they do, we could have several bastards of Aerys.

[RedShirt47]

Varys (a Brightflame).

Illyrio (a Blackfyre).

Aegon (a Brightfyre).

[Aerys Blackfyre]

Varys (a Brightflame).

Illyrio (a Blackfyre).

Aegon (a Brightfyre).

what in the 7 hells is a Brightfyre?! :dunno:

[Mr. Tyrell]

Descendants of Shitmouth Targaryen. :D

[Liaraeyne]

I genuinely believe that Aerys is Cersei's and Jaime's father.

I sort of believe Shiera Seastar is alive as either Old Nan, Quaithe or someone else.

I believe that Aegon is fake.

Gerold ''Darkstar'' Dayne could be a secret Targ (bastard of Aerys) (he has the looks and he is mad)

Jon is definitely a secret Targ.

Daario Naharis could be a bastard of Aerys, I don't know what to think of that.

I would LOVE it if Tyrion is also Aerys' bastard, it would be a massive, final insult to Tywin.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

what in the 7 hells is a Brightfyre?! :dunno:

Descendants of Aerion Targaryen (known as Brightflame) and Blackfyres.

Descendants of Shitmouth Targaryen. :D

More like Fullofshit Targaryen.

[amberStone]

In my view there must be two -- and only two -- secret Targs. I believe that the prophecy that the dragon has three heads means that three people who are "of House Targ" (not necessarily Targaryen, but with a Targaryen parent) will be the 3HD. While there are many characters with some dragon blood (e.g., Stannis's grandmother was a Targ), very few are actual children of a Targ. So those characters don't qualify to be a head of the dragon. At the beginning of the series, there are 4 characters that we eventually learn are the children of a Targ. Two of them, Viserys and Aemon, are dead. Bloodraven is only sort of alive, and is really in no shape to be one of the heads of the dragon. So that leaves Dany.

With Dany as one head of the dragon, we need two more. Without any other known characters who have been revealed to have a Targ parent, I believe there needs to be two more characters with a Targ parent who can serve as the other two heads of the dragon. Some might argue Aegon is a Targ, but I believe that while he has dragon blood (Blackfyre and/or Brightflame, etc.), I do not think he is the child of a Targ. Young Griff also has not been made a major enough character is the series to become a head of the dragon -- i.e., one of the endgame heroes who wins the Battle for the Dawn 2.0.

So who could these other 2 "secret" Targs be. I think it is obvious -- Jon (R+L=J) and Tyrion (A+J=T). The series needs these two to be secret Targs but needs no other secret Targs (and doubt there will be any other secret Targs). Other theories of secret Targs (like Cersei and Jaime) will not bear out.

Yeah, I agree with this.

[SummerSphinx]

In my view there must be two -- and only two -- secret Targs. I believe that the prophecy that the dragon has three heads means that three people who are "of House Targ" (not necessarily Targaryen, but with a Targaryen parent) will be the 3HD. While there are many characters with some dragon blood (e.g., Stannis's grandmother was a Targ), very few are actual children of a Targ. So those characters don't qualify to be a head of the dragon. At the beginning of the series, there are 4 characters that we eventually learn are the children of a Targ. Two of them, Viserys and Aemon, are dead. Bloodraven is only sort of alive, and is really in no shape to be one of the heads of the dragon. So that leaves Dany.

With Dany as one head of the dragon, we need two more. Without any other known characters who have been revealed to have a Targ parent, I believe there needs to be two more characters with a Targ parent who can serve as the other two heads of the dragon. Some might argue Aegon is a Targ, but I believe that while he has dragon blood (Blackfyre and/or Brightflame, etc.), I do not think he is the child of a Targ. Young Griff also has not been made a major enough character is the series to become a head of the dragon -- i.e., one of the endgame heroes who wins the Battle for the Dawn 2.0.

So who could these other 2 "secret" Targs be. I think it is obvious -- Jon (R+L=J) and Tyrion (A+J=T). The series needs these two to be secret Targs but needs no other secret Targs (and doubt there will be any other secret Targs). Other theories of secret Targs (like Cersei and Jaime) will not bear out.

I don't agree about only 2. The original Dance of Dragons was a civil war between various Targaryens. Both sides had dragons. Dragons fought against dragons.

We have 3 confirmed dragons in existence at the moment, but couldn't there be 20 possible riders trying to claim the 3?

To succeed, house Targaryen needs three working together, probably.

[UnmaskedLurker]

I don't agree about only 2. The original Dance of Dragons was a civil war between various Targaryens. Both sides had dragons. Dragons fought against dragons.

We have 3 confirmed dragons in existence at the moment, but couldn't there be 20 possible riders trying to claim the 3?

To succeed, house Targaryen needs three working together, probably.

Let me try to be more clear. If by secret Targ, one really means someone with secret Targ ancestry, then I think there will be more than 2. I agree that Varys might be a secret Blackfyre or Brightflame, and the same for Illyrio. I agree that (f)Aegon likely is a Targ descendant -- but not the son of Rhaegar. When I say 2, I mean only 2 characters who are children of actual Targaryens (i.e., who were considered to be a member of House Targaryen -- not an offshoot House like Blackfyre or Brightflame -- but the main Targ branch using the last name Targaryen).

I believe that Dance of Dragons 2.0 will not be Targ vs. Targ (like the original dance) but Targ (Dany) vs. Blackfyre descendant ((f)Aegon). So while (f)Aegon is a dragon because he has dragon blood (as Illyrio pointed out, black or red, a dragon is a dragon), he is not a Targ.

The OP asked about secret Targs. I was interpreting that question narrowly to include only people who are secretly the child of someone who themselves were identified as a Targ during his or her life (i.e., has the last name Targaryen). I acknowledge, however, that a broader interpretation -- one that includes anyone who has a Targ ancestor but that information is not generally known -- will include more than 2 characters.

[SummerSphinx]

Ok, we are mostly on the same page. But what about Aurane Waters? Other Aerys bastards?

And why first generation only? What about

Stannis, Shireen, Gendry, Edric, Mya Stone, etc.? You think they are too far removed? If any of the moms of the bastards had Targ blood, too?

Out of curiosity, have you read the Princess and the Queen? I hate it when people refer to the novellas, but it seems relevant in this instance.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Ok, we are mostly on the same page. But what about Aurane Waters? Other Aerys bastards?

And why first generation only? What about

Stannis, Shireen, Gendry, Edric, Mya Stone, etc.? You think they are too far removed? If any of the moms of the bastards had Targ blood, too?

Out of curiosity, have you read the Princess and the Queen? I hate it when people refer to the novellas, but it seems relevant in this instance.

If any of the mothers of those bastards had Targ blood, they would be acknowledged like Edric Storm was, because of their mothers being noble-born.

Unless of course you're talking about descendants of Aegon IV who slept with a lot of women and legitimized his noble-born bastards on his deathbed. Bloodraven had two or three sisters, and we don't know who or even if they married. If we go back to Aegon the Skank, the field opens up big time!

[Mladen]

A request for a compilation of all secret Targaryen theories?

We call that list of characters these days.