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A request for a compilation of all secret Targaryen theories


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If any of the mothers of those bastards had Targ blood, they would be acknowledged like Edric Storm was, because of their mothers being noble-born.

Unless of course you're talking about descendants of Aegon IV who slept with a lot of women and legitimized his noble-born bastards on his deathbed. Bloodraven had two or three sisters, and we don't know who or even if they married. If we go back to Aegon the Skank, the field opens up big time!

Actually, what I was imagining was some woman like Gendry's mom. What do we know about her family history? There are probably female bastards, and female descendants of bastards. A whore in a brothel, or a famous Courtesan in Braavos (the Black Pearl was rumored to have Targaryen blood, I believe), or one of the many "Seed" on Dragonstone. Robert had some Targaryen blood, and considering he probably had 15 different mothers for his kids, he lived in King's Landing, and Aerys also slept around in KL...Robert may have fathered a child on a bastard daughter of Aerys...

I don't think we can assume that Gendry, Mya, Aurane, or others cannot ride. We also shouldn't assume Rhaegar had no unknown bastards.

I think most readers would feel a little cheated if some new, unknown Targ bastard took a primary role as a dragonrider--if there are only going to be 2 more bondings between dragon and rider.

But if one rider dies? Or if there are more dragons awakened from stone?

If Aurane showed up in Meereen and tried to steal a dragon, I wouldn't assume he'd die like Quentyn.

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Someone mind telling how in the Fourteen Flames is Mance suppose to be Rhaegar? I swear I saw this theory explode on the internet several months ago, it seems so random.

It was random. Rhaegar is dead, Mance is, well, Mance.

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A request for a compilation of all secret Targaryen theories?

We call that list of characters these days.

Do we ever.

Eddard Stark was a bloody secret Targ for a long time because George didn't think listing his mother's house was important...

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Someone mind telling how in the Fourteen Flames is Mance suppose to be Rhaegar? I swear I saw this theory explode on the internet several months ago, it seems so random.

People thought Jon's interactions with Mance were like father-son.

Do we ever.

Eddard Stark was a bloody secret Targ for a long time because George didn't think listing his mother's house was important...

Was? Lol.

What about his mother's mother's mother?

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Ok, we are mostly on the same page. But what about Aurane Waters? Other Aerys bastards?

And why first generation only? What about

Stannis, Shireen, Gendry, Edric, Mya Stone, etc.? You think they are too far removed? If any of the moms of the bastards had Targ blood, too?

Out of curiosity, have you read the Princess and the Queen? I hate it when people refer to the novellas, but it seems relevant in this instance.

Great question. The issue of Stannis, Shireen, Gendry, etc. is only partially an issue of too far removed. For me, the issue is that while these characters definitely have some dragon blood, they are more associated with House Baratheon. Gendry was a "hidden Baratheon" perhaps, but not a hidden Targ (even though obviously he has some Targ blood).

I am not sure what you are asking about Aurane Waters. he is of House Valaryon, not House Targaryen. They are different houses.

Your question about other bastards of Aerys get precisely to the point I originally tried to make. Maybe Aerys has other bastards and maybe he does not. But the story does not need more than one bastard of Aerys, and so the story won't get more than one bastard of Aerys. The theoretical world of Westeros is too big for GRRM to tell the readers every precise detail of the world. It would become an encyclopedia rather than novels. The author focuses on what matters to the story being told (with some interesting side world building, but only so much of that is possible). Here the story needs three heads of the dragon. Given that only one character who is known to be a Targ plausibly qualifies as a potential head of the dragon (Dany) -- we need two more Targs. Having additional secret Targs would be unnecessary and arguably undermine the reveals for Jon and Tyrion. Having other secret Blackfyres, on the other hand, can serve a purpose to set up opponents for the Targs.

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Jon may end up being the only secret Targ revealed



If we end up with a bunch of reveals it cheapens the impact... besides Jon's parentage clearly matters... Tyrion's does not im not sold on him being a Targ



I think its j ust as likely that Bran wargs a dragon or any of the Starks for that matter instead of a seemingly random secret reveal of another Targ... most don't question Tyrion's parentage. I think Tyrion being a Targ cheapens his personal arc/journey... most of his difficulties and things he must overcome come from his family... distancing the Lannisters from Tyrion cheapens this



There's also many other options for Dragon control... although I do think it will/should come back to an original character... if it is Tyrion I hope he is not a Targ


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Jon may end up being the only secret Targ revealed

If we end up with a bunch of reveals it cheapens the impact... besides Jon's parentage clearly matters... Tyrion's does not im not sold on him being a Targ

I think its j ust as likely that Bran wargs a dragon or any of the Starks for that matter instead of a seemingly random secret reveal of another Targ... most don't question Tyrion's parentage. I think Tyrion being a Targ cheapens his personal arc/journey... most of his difficulties and things he must overcome come from his family... distancing the Lannisters from Tyrion cheapens this

There's also many other options for Dragon control... although I do think it will/should come back to an original character... if it is Tyrion I hope he is not a Targ

Here is the problem with your theory that no one has given me a satisfying answer for in terms of fulfilling the prophecy. One thing we know is that part of the prophecy is that the dragon has three heads. Keep in mind that the prophecy notes dragon -- singular. What is the "dragon" that has three heads? Some people merely punt and suggest we don't -- and can't -- know yet. Maybe they are right, but I doubt it. GRRM does not drop a hint about such a prophecy but not give any clues about what the dragon means. The point of the prophecy is the allow some readers to figure it out and for the rest of the readers to be able to look back in the end and see that it was possible to have figured it out if they had examined the clues properly. It is much less interesting if the solution end up being something that would have been impossible to figure out. So the readers must look around for what the "dragon" could be in the prophecy -- i.e., when the "seer" had the vision in which the dragon has three heads -- what could that vision mean -- what was the dragon?

The only answer that makes any sense to me is House Targ (the House Sigil is a pretty big clue in favor of this theory). I keep trying to come up with some other alternative. I try to avoid "confirmation bias" and try to challenge all of my assumptions to make sure I am coming to a logical conclusion. I am not suggesting that I might not be mistaken -- just that I don't think I am engaging in wishful thinking.

I don't see how Bran can be a head of the dragon. Will Bran be part of the Battle for the Dawn 2.0? I think he will -- and I think he will be an important part of winning the war. He will be a major contributor who will help the heads of the dragon. But Bran is not of House Targ -- he cannot be a head of the dragon.

As to whether Tyrion as a Targ bastard cheapens his story arc -- I have debated that point ad nauseum. I cannot convince those who feel that way to feel different. All I can ask is for them to keep an open mind and see how GRRM handles this development (assuming I am correct in this theory). GRRM might show that having Tyrion find out that he is really the son of the mad King opens up a host of new and interesting plot developments that otherwise would have been impossible. Consider that maybe everything we thought we knew about Tywin and his treatment of Tyrion was wrong -- and maybe that will turn out to be a good thing.

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Well, I won't/can't change my stance on Tyrion just my opinion.



I agree that it is likely that THE dragon that has three heads is the Targs (house sigil and all)



But could someone become a Targ and thus the 3rd head of the dragon through marriage? Or childbirth? IF Jon and Dany are two heads of the dragon then either child of them could be the third. Or whoever marries one of them.



Say one of the Dragons dies or is warged/controlled and lost to Dany, we don't necessarily have 3 riders for 3 different dragons. But we could have Jon and Dany and a 3rd (through marriage or birth)

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Well, I won't/can't change my stance on Tyrion just my opinion.

I agree that it is likely that THE dragon that has three heads is the Targs (house sigil and all)

But could someone become a Targ and thus the 3rd head of the dragon through marriage? Or childbirth? IF Jon and Dany are two heads of the dragon then either child of them could be the third. Or whoever marries one of them.

Say one of the Dragons dies or is warged/controlled and lost to Dany, we don't necessarily have 3 riders for 3 different dragons. But we could have Jon and Dany and a 3rd (through marriage or birth)

A child would be an infant at the time of the war and thus way too young to be a head of the dragon. Marriage would not give someone dragon blood. A Head of the Dragon is not going to be someone who is married to a Targ but not actually a Targ himself or herself because such a person simply cannot be one of the heads of the house. We need a third character with dragon blood and who is of House Targ (by birth). Nothing else seems to work to fulfill the prophecy. Of course I could be looking at this puzzle all wrong -- but I just don't see how those alternatives really works in this context. It is not just a matter of needing three separate dragon riders (although it seems we likely will have the three heads riding the three dragons -- but that is not the main point) -- it is a matter of needing three separate characters who can plausibly take on a role as a head of the dragon.

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My point with the child is that they may not be needed for the war but perhaps be the third head that ends up taking over for whoever is left standing at the end of this whole thing.



And with marriage say Tyrion reads/studies/figures out how to tame or ride a dragon and marries Dany he could be the third head.



Or if we use Ben Plumm and his two drops of dragons blood - the dragons like him his ancestor married a dragon princess way back when - then Baratheon's or Martell's or any of the other houses with distant Targ relations have potential as third heads. (Although it did not work out well for Quentyn)

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Although I will concede that Tyrion aside from Jon makes sense as the most plausible secret Targ. I mean I understand the argument behind it (hair colouring, fascination w/dragons, A+J) but I just can't get behind it.



I really think two secret Targs (or more) cheapens both Tyrion's arc and Jon's potential reveal



This is the same reason I believe/hope Aegon is fAegon - we go from having one Targ in Dany who is 'chosen' (dreams, prophecies, mother of dragons) and potential reveal in Jon (R+L, blue rose on the wall, etc.) to secret Targs popping up all over - I really feel it cheapens the narrative and arcs of these characters and potential reveals. I think they are red herrings.


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Basic questions to ask, with the simplest 'yes' or 'no' as a required response.



(1) Does it move?


(2) Does it speak?


(3) Does it like sex (random or otherwise)?


(4) Does it dream of dragons?


(5) Does it have a fascination with a sister or brother?


(6) Does it have an urge to rule any realm (vacant or otherwise)?



Any combination of 'yes' or 'no' means it is a secret Targ.


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Cersei and Jaime are no longer in the running, WOIAF shut the door on that. It is no longer viable, everyone should accept that.



They are clearly the bright shining children of Joanna and Tywin, they made Aerys Jealous, he is not their father, him and Joanna were not in the same location at the time of their conception. It's not possible.


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I really think that if there are any secret Targs-its Jon, and maybe Tyrion though I'm not quite sure how I feel about that.



At any rate, while I think other Targ descendants will show-even if only as cameos or easter eggs for the fans of the D&E stories, the only ones who's Targ ancestry will matter is Jon (and again, possibly Tyrion).



I subscribe to the theory that Aegon is a fake, a descendant of Daemon Blackfyre in the female line ; but he could be real, and in either case, he would have Targ ancestry. For the purposes of his storyline-where his right will largely be determined by his swords, it doesn't necessarily matter too much.

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