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explanations and theories on why they changed certain things...


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Can somebody please explain me why Robb, Stannis and Balon don't / didn't have crowns?! I wanted to see the longswords-sharped crown, flames-sharped crown and Driftwood Crown so much :crying: And what about Dany's dragons-crown? And Cersei's crowns? Hell, every queen (Selyse, Jeyne W., aso) wears also one in the books, and Theon (as PoW) and Asha (at the KM) too.

Is it because while Joffrey had/sat the Iron Throne, the Lannisters' have gold and all and Renly was the fabulous guy with a sense for style and had the rich Tyrells' support (and Marg's even both, a beautiful Tyrell with great fashion style and married to three kings, of which two sat/sit the IT), Robb/Stannis/Balon were either too much in a rush for crowns, or didn't had the money/gold, or just didn't / don't give a shit about such "knick-knack"? (And what about Dany?)

I mean, the very few crowns which exist on the show look great (love the antler-roses-connection!), but some more for all kings and queens would've been cool.

...At least they gave Stannis beautiful hair on his head. And Robb nice curls. And Balon... a blanket (http://images6.fanpop.com/image/photos/34300000/balon-house-greyjoy-34367792-1273-720.jpg) and longer life.

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Can somebody please explain me why Robb, Stannis and Balon don't / didn't have crowns?! I wanted to see the longswords-sharped crown, flames-sharped crown and Driftwood Crown so much :crying: And what about Dany's dragons-crown? And Cersei's crowns? Hell, every queen (Selyse, Jeyne W., aso) wears also one in the books, and Theon (as PoW) and Asha (at the KM) too.

Is it because while Joffrey had/sat the Iron Throne, the Lannisters' have gold and all and Renly was the fabulous guy with a sense for style and had the rich Tyrells' support (and Marg's even both, a beautiful Tyrell with great fashion style and married to three kings, of which two sat/sit the IT), Robb/Stannis/Balon were either too much in a rush for crowns, or didn't had the money/gold, or just didn't / don't give a shit about such "knick-knack"? (And what about Dany?)

I mean, the very few crowns which exist on the show look great (love the antler-roses-connection!), but some more for all kings and queens would've been cool.

...At least they gave Stannis beautiful hair on his head. And Robb nice curls. And Balon... a blanket (http://images6.fanpop.com/image/photos/34300000/balon-house-greyjoy-34367792-1273-720.jpg) and longer life.

Heh, good point.

Robb became king while on a military campaign so he didn't just have one and a crown couldn't be introduced in the "King in the North" scene at the end of season 1 because it was a spontaneous thing. Robb could have gotten a crown made during the season break, but it wouldn't be practical to wear the thing all the time while on campaign and hanging out in his tent. Presumably he'd just put it on for ceremonial occasions, but then the sudden appearance of a crown could be distracting? Anyway, Robb not bothering with a crown during the campaign seems reasonable to me.

Balon has such little screen time, mostly secluded in his castle, and a big part of his characterization was his derision of Theon's fancy clothing. I think omitting the crown helps to get across his "iron price" ideology, separate culture from Westerosi mainland, and the Iron Islander's poverty.

Stannis should have a crown. He's been claiming to the be the rightful king of Westeros, he has the resources, and we've seen him in ceremonial occasions. Maybe the show runners are scared that putting a crown on him would be confusing? Or maybe there will be a moment in the future where he gets crowned that will be more meaningful because he has been waiting to get to wear a crown?

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My explanations:


  • They mainly cut Lady Stoneheart because it cheapens the impact of the Red Wedding, which is admittedly why D&D were set on adapting this story in the first place. Also, the expense of bringing back Michelle Fairley and covering her in SFX.
  • That whole clusterfuck at Crasters' was to give Bran et all something interesting to do and raise the stakes.
  • Jeyne Poole was cut to emphasize Sansa's isolation and for budgetary reasons, and we already had Ros to demonstrate Littlefinger's monstrousness.
  • Tyrion's chain at the Blackwater was cut because of budget constraints, but also possibly because it would have been too complicated visually in a nighttime scene battle sequence with a ton of stuff already going on.
  • Bran is the only one with wolf-dreams for budget reasons.
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How on earth does Lady Stoneheart CHEAPEN the Red Wedding? She is a living manifestation of the horrors that happened!



Or is the only tragedy of the Red Wedding the fact that main characters died? :rolleyes:



To paraphrase Mirri Maz Duur: "Take a look at [Lady Stoneheart]. Then you will see what life is worth when all the rest is gone."


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There is the level at which Stoneheart is horrifying, but there is another level at which Stoneheart is satisfyingly bad-ass.



I think the bigger issue with both Stoneheart and Aegon is that they cheapen Jon's story. If Jon is supposed to be a big deal and if he's the key to resolving the story, he should get to do cool stuff that other characters haven't already done.


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There is the level at which Stoneheart is horrifying, but there is another level at which Stoneheart is satisfyingly bad-ass.

I think the bigger issue with both Stoneheart and Aegon is that they cheapen Jon's story. If Jon is supposed to be a big deal and if he's the key to resolving the story, he should get to do cool stuff that other characters haven't already done.

Well, you're totally missing the point of the story in that case. If Jon is resurrected, he certainly won't be the first character who has been - it happened in the first chapter of the series, after all. And Aegon, if fake, works far more in Jon's favour than against it.

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How on earth does Lady Stoneheart CHEAPEN the Red Wedding? She is a living manifestation of the horrors that happened!

Or is the only tragedy of the Red Wedding the fact that main characters died? :rolleyes:

To paraphrase Mirri Maz Duur: "Take a look at [Lady Stoneheart]. Then you will see what life is worth when all the rest is gone."

Let me clarify: I don't feel Lady Stoneheart cheapens the Red Wedding as much in the novels. In fact, I just re-read her appearance in the epilogue of aSoS and it's bone-chilling.

However, the show is a whole other deal. Show watchers and book readers alike spent three seasons living in the heads and hearts of the Stark family. We then saw Catelyn, Robb, Talisa, the unborn Eddard, the Stark bannermen, and the Northern dream destroyed in the show's most visually wrenching, horrifying and nihilistic sequence they'll probably ever do. Lady Stoneheart is not necessary to drive home the full, Old Testament-grade awfulness of the Red Wedding. We saw it in Lothar Frey going right for Talisa's belly with a knife, in the utter loss of hope in Robb's eyes as he watched his wife die in his arms, in the Northmen lying dead in plates of food, in Catelyn's doomed, desperate plea to Walder Frey, and in that final scream she let out after watching her oldest son murdered by an ally before being put out of her own misery.

By bringing the show's Catelyn back from that, EVEN THOUGH we've seen other resurrections, it would throw the world of the story off its axis. People know what they saw in S309, and from a dramatic standpoint it makes no sense to make people go, "Okay, so, we had this event that just destroyed the dominant arc of the story as we know it, and utterly devastated us on an emotional level…..but Catelyn Stark isn't really dead? She's a zombie shadow of her former self now? Oh. That's….cool, I guess. So, like, they could bring back Robb and all the other Starks. Okay. It's all just kind of whatever, then." It just takes all the finality away, and that's what made the Red Wedding such a milestone event, you know? That's just my take on it, though. I think I might be way more inclined to find positives in D&D choices than a lot of people here *ducks*

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That actually looks pretty impressive IMO. If it was distressed and faded to look aged and lived in, that would have worked fine on camera.






Budget and time constraints are 99% the reason for the changes. The other 1% is just D&D thinking they can outdo GRRM.




I don't know that it's fair to say that they think they can "outdo" GRRM, more that they feel some of their choices make for better television. Sometimes they're right, other times not.


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Let me clarify: I don't feel Lady Stoneheart cheapens the Red Wedding as much in the novels. In fact, I just re-read her appearance in the epilogue of aSoS and it's bone-chilling.

However, the show is a whole other deal. Show watchers and book readers alike spent three seasons living in the heads and hearts of the Stark family. We then saw Catelyn, Robb, Talisa, the unborn Eddard, the Stark bannermen, and the Northern dream destroyed in the show's most visually wrenching, horrifying and nihilistic sequence they'll probably ever do. Lady Stoneheart is not necessary to drive home the full, Old Testament-grade awfulness of the Red Wedding. We saw it in Lothar Frey going right for Talisa's belly with a knife, in the utter loss of hope in Robb's eyes as he watched his wife die in his arms, in the Northmen lying dead in plates of food, in Catelyn's doomed, desperate plea to Walder Frey, and in that final scream she let out after watching her oldest son murdered by an ally before being put out of her own misery.

By bringing the show's Catelyn back from that, EVEN THOUGH we've seen other resurrections, it would throw the world of the story off its axis. People know what they saw in S309, and from a dramatic standpoint it makes no sense to make people go, "Okay, so, we had this event that just destroyed the dominant arc of the story as we know it, and utterly devastated us on an emotional level…..but Catelyn Stark isn't really dead? She's a zombie shadow of her former self now? Oh. That's….cool, I guess. So, like, they could bring back Robb and all the other Starks. Okay. It's all just kind of whatever, then." It just takes all the finality away, and that's what made the Red Wedding such a milestone event, you know? That's just my take on it, though. I think I might be way more inclined to find positives in D&D choices than a lot of people here *ducks*

I completely agree.

In the book, her reappearance was soul wrenching, seeing someone we had all known so well and lost so violently become that thing. That just wouldn't translate that well on screen I'm thinking....

Besides people might just start comparing it to series like the walking dead and it may turn people off.

That's just my opinion though. :worried:

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Can somebody please explain me why Robb, Stannis and Balon don't / didn't have crowns?! I wanted to see the longswords-sharped crown, flames-sharped crown and Driftwood Crown so much :crying: And what about Dany's dragons-crown? And Cersei's crowns? Hell, every queen (Selyse, Jeyne W., aso) wears also one in the books, and Theon (as PoW) and Asha (at the KM) too.

Is it because while Joffrey had/sat the Iron Throne, the Lannisters' have gold and all and Renly was the fabulous guy with a sense for style and had the rich Tyrells' support (and Marg's even both, a beautiful Tyrell with great fashion style and married to three kings, of which two sat/sit the IT), Robb/Stannis/Balon were either too much in a rush for crowns, or didn't had the money/gold, or just didn't / don't give a shit about such "knick-knack"? (And what about Dany?)

I mean, the very few crowns which exist on the show look great (love the antler-roses-connection!), but some more for all kings and queens would've been cool.

...At least they gave Stannis beautiful hair on his head. And Robb nice curls. And Balon... a blanket (http://images6.fanpop.com/image/photos/34300000/balon-house-greyjoy-34367792-1273-720.jpg) and longer life.

OH MY GOD. This annoyed me as well. I would have loved, loved, LOVED, to see Robb's sword-crown and Dany's dragon crown. I think Margaery and Cersei should have crowns as well.

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They don't think that far back or plan ahead like this.

Plan ahead? LS is be "created" three days after the red wedding. They had the Dondarrion and Thoros characters already established in that season. IMHO It would have been the perfect bang to end season three. No planning ahead needed.

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The omission of Tysha and the fact Jaime and Tyrion departed on relatively good terms at the end of season 4. That annoyed me

Book Tyrion has become a bit of an unbearable prick since then. I'm pretty sure they didn't want to spoil the golden boy: TV Tyrion. I'm also sure that if Tyrion and Jamie ever meet again than Tyrion will be glad about it. So there is no need to go that road.

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Lol at the Daario picture, but that Roose picture is quality, I actually think that would've worked well! Also it reminds just how brilliantly sinister Micheal McEllhatton is in the role...

I like that Roose picture too, with that shade of pink it actually would have worked. I don't like most of the costumes that Cersei and Sansa wear in Kings Landing, I feel that especially Cersei's gowns are not spectacular enough for a queen. I like the way they dress Dany though.

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