Danaerys/Cersei parallels

[Mrs_Darcy]

Welcome!

I would say their parallels are more visible along the lines of prophecies. Not really parallels though. Cersie had one prophecy in her life and she allowed it to ruin her life. Daenerys on the other hand, has had magical things happening in her life yet she is still wary of prophecies.

Cersei doesn't care about her subjects while Daenerys says, "a Queen does not belong to herself but to her people."

Cersei believes ruling is her right while Dany be lives she must first learn.

But both Dany and Cersei believe that it is their right to rule because of the family they come from.

Cersei believes, that the Lannisters should rule, because she thinks Lannisters are better than every other family, while Dany believes it is her right to rule, because her ancestors conquerored the 7k before they had to flee.

You are right, that Dany at the end of ASOS Dany thinks, that knowing something about ruling will come in handy, once she has conquerored the 7k, but contrary to Varys, who uses Aegon's experiences and knowledge as a legitimization for him to rule, Dany's claim rests solely on her ancestry.

[JoeyBanana]

Dany's ancestry also includes Aegon The Conquerer. The guy who oh-so arrogantly thought he could claim Westeros as his own with dragons. I don't think she has any delusions as to what she'll need to do for the Iron Throne.

[larastone]

Interesting.

I think Daenerys is the 'younger and more beautiful queen'.

Maggy: "Queen you shall be... until there comes another, younger and more beautiful, to cast you down and take all that you hold dear."

Cersei has no doubt that it's Margaery, but the bad relationship between Cersei and Margaery is Cersei's fault. Margaery is only marrying Tommen, she doesn't want him dead or anything like that, at all. Your son getting married doesn't mean you'll never see him again.

If Cersei opened her mind to it she and Margaery could be good friends...

Daenerys, though... She wants to take the iron throne by force and exterminate house Lannister for what they did to her family.

agreed that dany is the younger more beautiful queen. i honestly refuse to accept any other substitutes besides her lol

[JonCon's Red Beard]

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/115603-daenerys-stormborn-a-re-read-project-part-v-adwd/page-6#entry6177683

In Storms and Feast, Cersei sees herself as a mare when others discuss a marriage for here. Dany, in a way, proves her right: this marriage (to Hizdar) is taming her because they are using her and she has been stripped from part of her power (and strength). Yet, she goes to the marriage willingly because it could help to bring the peace she needs. In Cersei's case, she's not a strange on stranger lands like Dany: a marriage could help her to rule effectively because we know she has no idea how to rule. She refuses thinking she alone is enough. And she's very very wrong.

[The Dragons Hand]

Dany loses her hair a lot.

But I have said before I do see certain similarities between them. However whereas Cersei get's sympathy Daenerys gets loyalty, at least from my corner of the internet.

[The Dragons Hand]

Dany is widely claimed to be the most beautiful woman in the world, but I'm more inclined to believe Sansa is the "Younger, more beautiful Queen." But not that she'll stay on the Iron Throne if she takes it.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Ok, now I have time to write.

The first parallel is their marriages. They both were betrothed as a bargain, in a way. Cersei, to assure the cooperation of the Lannisters to the new King, and Dany, in exchange of an army, although some would say that was a ruse and it was a way to keep Drogo and his people away from Pentos.

Cersei and Dany started their marriages as the "abused" part, but Dany was able to subvert it, while Cersei, couldn't. The interesting part here is that Dany went to that marriage as practically a slave, and was "elevated" to a Queen. Cersei was marrying as Tywin Lannister's daughter, probably the most powerful woman of the Seven Kingdoms at the moment, yet, Robert respected her nor loved her at all, and wanted to get rid of her.

During Cersei and Robert's first night, he said "Lyanna". It was a private moment that destroyed their marriage, and only Ned found out.. When Dany started to learn how to control him, he shouted out her name, in public.

Both husbands killed the one they were supposed to marry. The twist is that Cersei's husband is the abuser and Dany's husband killed her abuser.

Cersei and Dany are both mother of three. And all of the "children" have been called abominations or monsters at some point. None of them had those children with their husband and lost the one they managed to sire, although Dany didn't intend for that to happen.

They were given the choice/order to remarry after they're husbands were dead. Cersei refused and was also refused, despite being rich and powerful. Dany has always had a lot of suitors and there are more on their way.

Cersei didn't marry and that was a mistake: she couldn't rule alone and she could have used some help and win some alliances, and she could have chosen anyone she liked. Dany marry out of duty, and while she's unhappy with Hizdar, that brought considerable relative peace to Meereen.

Dany's surviving the pyre and birthing the dragon is her moment of biggest glory, while Cersei's wos is her biggest shame.

They didn't willingly take off their clothes, nor their hair: Cersei was stripped of her clothes and shaven by the septas while Dany entered the pyre with her clothes on and the fire forced her to take them off. The fire also burn all of her hair.

The septas who undressed and shaved Cersei told her that in this way, she would be reborn, as she was born naked and without hair. In fact, this made her "died" as a Queen. Dany was thought to be killing herself by Jorah and the Dothraki, but she was indeed "reborn" as a Goddess magical figure.

The people who saw Cersei's naked body made fun of her due to the marks of childbearing: saggy breasts, stretch marks and even, gained weight. For her, to have given birth "spoiled" her as a desirable woman. Dany never actually gave birth the Dragons, but the fact she had milk in her breasts, and the dragons drank from them, got her the name of "mother of dragons".

[Chalais]

While there are some similarities between Dany and Cersei, ultimately what will always divide them is that Dany can see her subjects as human beings. Cersei will only always see them as playthings and objects for her amusement and exploitation.

Is Dany a good ruler? Technically no, but she was trying to rule in a civilization that she had knocked around but didn't outright destroy, so it's surviving noblemen had little reason to work WITH her. So they worked against her and very nearly murdered her. If she had managed to build a better support base she would have had more success to balance out her mistakes.

[Liaraeyne]

Ok, now I have time to write.

The first parallel is their marriages. They both were betrothed as a bargain, in a way. Cersei, to assure the cooperation of the Lannisters to the new King, and Dany, in exchange of an army, although some would say that was a ruse and it was a way to keep Drogo and his people away from Pentos.

Cersei and Dany started their marriages as the "abused" part, but Dany was able to subvert it, while Cersei, couldn't. The interesting part here is that Dany went to that marriage as practically a slave, and was "elevated" to a Queen. Cersei was marrying as Tywin Lannister's daughter, probably the most powerful woman of the Seven Kingdoms at the moment, yet, Robert respected her nor loved her at all, and wanted to get rid of her.

During Cersei and Robert's first night, he said "Lyanna". It was a private moment that destroyed their marriage, and only Ned found out.. When Dany started to learn how to control him, he shouted out her name, in public.

Both husbands killed the one they were supposed to marry. The twist is that Cersei's husband is the abuser and Dany's husband killed her abuser.

Cersei and Dany are both mother of three. And all of the "children" have been called abominations or monsters at some point. None of them had those children with their husband and lost the one they managed to sire, although Dany didn't intend for that to happen.

They were given the choice/order to remarry after they're husbands were dead. Cersei refused and was also refused, despite being rich and powerful. Dany has always had a lot of suitors and there are more on their way.

Cersei didn't marry and that was a mistake: she couldn't rule alone and she could have used some help and win some alliances, and she could have chosen anyone she liked. Dany marry out of duty, and while she's unhappy with Hizdar, that brought considerable relative peace to Meereen.

Dany's surviving the pyre and birthing the dragon is her moment of biggest glory, while Cersei's wos is her biggest shame.

They didn't willingly take off their clothes, nor their hair: Cersei was stripped of her clothes and shaven by the septas while Dany entered the pyre with her clothes on and the fire forced her to take them off. The fire also burn all of her hair.

The septas who undressed and shaved Cersei told her that in this way, she would be reborn, as she was born naked and without hair. In fact, this made her "died" as a Queen. Dany was thought to be killing herself by Jorah and the Dothraki, but she was indeed "reborn" as a Goddess magical figure.

The people who saw Cersei's naked body made fun of her due to the marks of childbearing: saggy breasts, stretch marks and even, gained weight. For her, to have given birth "spoiled" her as a desirable woman. Dany never actually gave birth the Dragons, but the fact she had milk in her breasts, and the dragons drank from them, got her the name of "mother of dragons".

Good analysis! Don't forget that both Cersei and Dany had another child which died in the womb, though Cersei willingly aborted it and Dany lost it and was overcome with grief

[Mithras]

They both expect deliverance from their "reanimated" husbands (Robert Strong vs Drogon).

[SeanF]

Although Dany does care for her subjects, she also have the same entitlement Cersei, and the rest of boy club have. Basically, she believes she is the right person for Westeros not for a second thinking about whether Westeros needs her. She wants to be better in ruling, but she is not someone who doesn't believe ruling is not her right... All that talk of dragon's blood speaks volumes about entitlement.

Dany is entitled, as Cersei is. But, that comes with the territory. Almost every character is royal or aristocratic.

But, Cersei is entirely self-centred, whereas Dany shows sympathy and compassion towards her servants and subjects.

[Nictarion]

Dany is entitled, as Cersei is. But, that comes with the territory. Almost every character is royal or aristocratic.

But, Cersei is entirely self-centred, whereas Dany shows sympathy and compassion towards her servants and subjects.

Exactly. "There must always be a Stark in Winterfell" is the epitome of entitlement. All the high born characters are guilty of it. Yet Dany is constantly singled out for it.

[SeanF]

Exactly. "There must always be a Stark in Winterfell" is the epitome of entitlement. All the high born characters are guilty of it. Yet Dany is constantly singled out for it.

The epitome of entitlement would be if Dany thought she was born to rule, and owed her people nothing in return, which is essentially Cersei's world outlook. Cersei's outlook isn't the worst in the series, either. The Boltons ar the worst.

[Mladen]

Dany is entitled, as Cersei is. But, that comes with the territory. Almost every character is royal or aristocratic.

But, Cersei is entirely self-centred, whereas Dany shows sympathy and compassion towards her servants and subjects.

Truth... I am not denying this. I am just saying that there is no true differentiation in entitlement between these two, or the rest of the boy club, TBH. Dany does show exceptionally high level of compassion, care and sympathy for her subjects and that is something I haven't denied, nor could I have.

Exactly. "There must always be a Stark in Winterfell" is the epitome of entitlement. All the high born characters are guilty of it. Yet Dany is constantly singled out for it.

Now, given that this is response to someone's opinion regarding my point, thus being referred to what I said. I haven't singled out Daenerys, but since she is the topic of this discussion, I talked about her. That certainly didn't mean that I have singled her out, which is kinda hilarious to claim given that I have said that she is no more entitled than the character she is compared here with. Furthermore, my opinion with regard to this is quite known, as I am firm believer that entire line of Kings/Queens and Lords are so full of BS entitlement, even Stannis who does something for the people is full of it, regardless of his "duty" talk. So, if this post was assessment of what I have said, it is quite inaccurate and unfair one.

[Mithras]

They are both familiar with the 6 ft. cock of Ossifer Plumm. It can be said that they are into the tabloid history but they lack the knowledge about the political history of Westeros. Dany was hazy about Aegons. Cersei had no idea about Maegor's Law.

[larastone]

—Cersei, AFFC

"What’s that for, Mother? Why are you crying?"

Because you’re safe,

she wanted to tell him.

Because no harm will ever come to you.

"You are mistaken. A lion never cries."

—Cersei, AFFC

I am not afraid. I am a lioness.

—Cersei, ADWD

__________

"I am the blood of the dragon," she whispered aloud as she followed, trying to keep her courage up. "I am the blood of the dragon. I am the blood of the dragon." The dragon was never afraid.

—Daenerys, AGOT

I am afraid,

she realized,

but I must be brave.

—Daenerys, ACOK

I am the blood of the dragon. I must be strong. I must have fire in my eyes when I face them, not tears.

—Daenerys, ASOS

They both turn to their house mottos and animals when they are afraid/in difficult situations and feel that they must be brave in order to endure and survive.

[Mladen]

snip

I am sorry but with few exceptions, this is rather bad parallel list. The parallels we all seem to be obsessed out need to have some purpose, and lion's share of this list's parallels have no point whatsoever. Is there a point in comparing bastards with dragons? Or what is the actual comparison of pyre and WOS, other that they were naked? And so on and on... I mean, we take parallels in order to specifically point something and these parallels basically gives us one big nothing. Take for example Bright Blue Eyes's comparison of their leading skills. That one actually leaves open space for discussion of where Dany might end, with differences pointing us in direction she won't go. Then, something we rarely talk about in respectful discussion is the paranoia of Dany's mindset (we don't do this because it is impossible because some people have need to repeat "she is crazy" ad nauseum). So, all in all, your list, IMHO, doesn't actually speak much about purposeful parallels between these two Queens.

Good analysis! Don't forget that both Cersei and Dany had another child which died in the womb, though Cersei willingly aborted it and Dany lost it and was overcome with grief

The difference you pointed out actually disqualify this as the parallel.

[Liaraeyne]

Depends on how you look at it :) cersei and daenerys aren't the same of course, they just have some interesting parallels, yet with differences. That's what makes it interesting in my opinion. :)

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Cersei has far more in common with Dany's father, Aerys, than she does with Dany herself.

She shows signs of being a sociopath, having no regard for human life, paranoia, massive paranoia. And flat out delusions. A few examples;

“Tyrion will not kill the same way twice. He is too cunning for that. He could be under the floor even now, listening to every word we say and making plans to open Tommen’s throat.”

“Do you still mean to go ahead and burn the Tower of the Hand?”

“After the Feast.” It was the only part of the days festivities that Cersei thought she might enjoy. “Our lord father was murdered in that tower. I cannot bear to look at it. If the gods are good, the fire may smoke a few rats from the rubble.” (remind anyone of Aerys?)

Jaime rolled his eyes. “Tyrion, you mean.”

“Him, and Lord Varys, and this goaler.”

“If any of them were hiding in the tower, we would have found them. Ive had a small army going at it with picks and hammers. We’ve knocked through walls and ripped up floors and uncovered half a hundred secret passages.”

“And for all you know there may be half a hundred more.”

“If these flames spread beyond the tower, you may end up burning down the castle whether you mean to or not. Wildfire is treacherous.”

“Lord Hallyne has assured me that his pyromancers can control the fire. Let all of King’s Landing see the flames. It will be a lesson to our enemies.”

“Now you sound like Aerys”

[Hodor's Dragon]

If you are looking for similarities, both know shit about ruling. Both refuse to acknowledge that. And both have a volatile and (self-)destructive temper.

Cersei, of course, is a laughably horrible ruler who creates her own problems, but I don't agree that Daenerys knows shit about ruling.

Yes, she makes mistakes, like everybody else in the series, but unlike Cersei who screws up things that start out in fine shape, Dany is constantly confronted with insoluble problems, particularly the Harpy problem. I just don't see the stupidity in her responses to it. If you think she has been stupid, what would have been smart? The only answers I can recollect being proposed are (1) leave, or (2) have a big slaver-massacre party. I'm not crazy about either of those answers, and I find it quite easy to reject the proposition that either of those answers is a correct answer that is sure to bring about a successful result. Is there another answer? One we can look at and say "yes, that's it, how could she have been so stupid as not to see that?"

Now, I know some people think that starting the whole Slaver's Bay emancipation project was stupid. I disagree with that, but since we have argued that many times and will never agree, let's leave that to the side for the moment and at least pretend for now that it was worthwhile to bring the old structure down and the question was what to do afterward. I don't really see an easy answer. What do you do about a well-organized and secretive insurgency?

I'm a little bit of an amateur hobbyist in history, and my own personal conclusion about the great leaders that I've studied throughout history is that the one thing they all seem to have in common is that they are not afraid to act. Average, competent leaders tend to get frozen by the complexity inherent in any dramatic change. Great leaders visualize the future, act to bring it about, and then see their way through the complexities by strength of will. That's what I think Daenerys is in the process of doing; she just hasn't gotten to the end stage yet.