Coud Shae Have Been Working for Littlefinger?

[John Suburbs]

My evidence is weak, but I'll give this a shot:

First, we have that backward 'ae' configuration in their names: Shae and Baelish. This shows up in a lot of Targaryen names as well, but I don't think they are secret targs. But it could indicate some kind of common connection to Old Valyria, given that some of the Velaryons used it as well. Then again, the Dothraki use it too, as do the Mereenese.

Secondly, we have two unusual events preceding the Purple Wedding. First, Shae knows all about Tyrion's betrothal to Sansa, most certainly before Sansa finds out and possibly before Tyrion as well. Her story is that she had it from the cook, who had it from the livery boy who is tumbling one of the maids... But that is quite a long chain of sources on which to base a certainty on -- and she is absolutely certain the story is true. I would imagine that the household staff is a veritable font of rumor and gossip, so for her to pick this one story that affects her personally and then have no doubt as to is veracity is unusual.

As well we have the fact that as Sansa's new handmaiden, she is in the perfect position to make sure she wears the hairnet for the wedding feast, and even makes a point of saying she wants to see pigeons fly out of a pie, which, as we know, was the cue for the poisoning. Just a coincidence? Or is she angling to make sure Sansa enters the feast with the hairnet?

Finally, we know Shae is a master seductress and Petyr has trained more than a few girls in the ways of the seven sighs, or the Westerosi equivalent. Jeyne Pool mentions her training several times and she was handed over to Petyr shortly after the Tower of the Hand was sacked.

Also interesting is that Cersei ordered the one of the Kettleblacks to dispose of the body, and the Kettleblacks were planted in King's Landing by, Petyr Baelish.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

No.

No connection showing, no way to plant her where somebody important would pick her up, no motivation to work with LF, no way Varys wouldn't find out and exploit it.

Shae is just a good whore doing her job. And being abused and swindled by Tyrion.

[John Suburbs]

Not sure what you mean by "pick her up." Tyrion found her in Tywin's camp, then brought her to KL. She was already working for some minor lord or something, and since she is such a stunner it stands to reason that she would be claimed by one of the higher lords. There was no way to guarantee it would have been Tyrion, but that might not have been the goal. It might have been to get close to Tywin or some other top figure.

Varys would only know about Shae and LF if Shae was in KL prior to the war. But LF has interests across the narrow sea as well, and she could very easily have been brought up in Braavos, Myr, even Penthos.

Admittedly, though, the connections between LF and Shae are weak.

[Mikkel]

It's seems like one of those theories with nothing much to speak for it, except the dubious virtue of not being impossible. If nothing else, Shae's not exactly helping Sansa's case (in fact Shae's testimony guaranteed Sansa a death sentence if she's ever captured), so unless Shae went rogue, I don't see why Littlefinger's pawn would act like that at all.

[Rhaenys' kitten]

If anything she might have been Tywin's spy, there's more evidence for that-

1. Met in Tywin's camp

2. Tywin knew Tyrion had her almost from the start, despite being in the middle of a battle/war

3. Tywin knew as well as anyone how much Tyrion likes whores

4. Shae's testimony was what Tywin wanted to hear

5. Shae found in Tywin's bed

[Salafi Stannis]

No.

[Julia Martell]

Shae's not smart enough to be anyone's spy.

[Thanos Targaryen]

Shae worked for Tywin all along? Yeah, that the kind of theory that is at least somewhat plausible. Beats someone coming up with "Shae is actually an undead and headless Blackfyre pretender working for the Iron Bank and the Dothraki and she'll warg Dany's dragons to attack Pyke to rape all the Ironborn to death after she's revealed as Varys' daughter who Arthur Dayne inseminated in Volantis because the White Fawn broke his heart so badly....."

[Lady Blizzardborn]

It's seems like one of those theories with nothing much to speak for it, except the dubious virtue of not being impossible. If nothing else, Shae's not exactly helping Sansa's case (in fact Shae's testimony guaranteed Sansa a death sentence if she's ever captured), so unless Shae went rogue, I don't see why Littlefinger's pawn would act like that at all.

Littlefinger's pawn would act like that because Sansa's life being in danger keeps her dependent on Littlefinger for protection. Or Shae could have gone rogue and just wanted revenge because she was jealous of Sansa.

OP, it's an intriguing theory. I like it. I also like that you acknowledge that the evidence is weak. Weak evidence sometimes means we don't have the whole story yet. This could work.

[John Suburbs]

She was most definitely working with Tywin from the start, but could she have been a double agent? Petyr seems to like those, too, namely the Kettleblacks.

[Poppa Chase]

If anything she might have been Tywin's spy, there's more evidence for that-

1. Met in Tywin's camp

2. Tywin knew Tyrion had her almost from the start, despite being in the middle of a battle/war

3. Tywin knew as well as anyone how much Tyrion likes whores

4. Shae's testimony was what Tywin wanted to hear

5. Shae found in Tywin's bed

^This.

[Poppa Chase]

She was most definitely working with Tywin from the start, but could she have been a double agent? Petyr seems to like those, too, namely the Kettleblacks.

^And possibly this as well.

[Colonel Green]

First, Shae knows all about Tyrion's betrothal to Sansa, most certainly before Sansa finds out and possibly before Tyrion as well. Her story is that she had it from the cook, who had it from the livery boy who is tumbling one of the maids... But that is quite a long chain of sources on which to base a certainty on -- and she is absolutely certain the story is true. I would imagine that the household staff is a veritable font of rumor and gossip, so for her to pick this one story that affects her personally and then have no doubt as to is veracity is unusual.

There would have been quantifiable preparations underway for Sansa's wedding, one imagines, though obviously not on the scale of Joffrey's.

As well we have the fact that as Sansa's new handmaiden, she is in the perfect position to make sure she wears the hairnet for the wedding feast, and even makes a point of saying she wants to see pigeons fly out of a pie, which, as we know, was the cue for the poisoning. Just a coincidence? Or is she angling to make sure Sansa enters the feast with the hairnet?

Sansa in the book was told to wear the hairnet. There's no reason why a handmaiden would be needed to subtly encourage her to do something that she was already going to do as part of the plan.

She was already working for some minor lord or something, and since she is such a stunner it stands to reason that she would be claimed by one of the higher lords.

Shae wasn't a "stunner". Tyrion was fixated on her, but she was described as being pretty in a fairly ordinary way. In any event, it far from "stands to reason" that she'd be claimed by a high lord, since she was in the company of some minor knight.

[Mal Malenkirk]

She was most definitely working with Tywin from the start, but could she have been a double agent? Petyr seems to like those, too, namely the Kettleblacks.

Evidence? I see none. She was a camp follower, got grabbed unpredictably by Bronn and delivered to Tyrion, she gave him the GFE he asked for, Tyrion got arrested and at that point she got turned and collaborated out of a self preservation. That's all I see.

If she was a spy from the start for anyone, what information did she pass along and what actions did it influence?

[John Suburbs]

There would have been quantifiable preparations underway for Sansa's wedding, one imagines, though obviously not on the scale of Joffrey's.

Sansa in the book was told to wear the hairnet. There's no reason why a handmaiden would be needed to subtly encourage her to do something that she was already going to do as part of the plan.

Shae wasn't a "stunner". Tyrion was fixated on her, but she was described as being pretty in a fairly ordinary way. In any event, it far from "stands to reason" that she'd be claimed by a high lord, since she was in the company of some minor knight.

Evidence? I see none. She was a camp follower, got grabbed unpredictably by Bronn and delivered to Tyrion, she gave him the GFE he asked for, Tyrion got arrested and at that point she got turned and collaborated out of a self preservation. That's all I see.

If she was a spy from the start for anyone, what information did she pass along and what actions did it influence?

All fair points. I can't remember the timeline exactly, but doesn't Tyrion have the conversation with Shae immediately after the meeting with Tywin, Cersei etc. where Tyrion first finds out? This could have been before an preps are underway, and if there were, Shae would simply have said, 'well the cooks are already preparing the menu.' Instead, she uses the servant grapevine, declaring with certainty that she knows it is true even though she should only have rumors. At this point, the only ones who know about the wedding are Tywin, Tyrion and Cersei, but is it possible Littlefinger knows as well, since he was the one who informed Tywin about the Willas Tyrell plot? Would Tywin fill LF in on the plan considering he (LF) is the broker for the entire Tyrell alliance, or would LF be on a need-to-know in this matter and this is just further evidence that Shae was Tywin's all along?

With the hairnet, yes that is what she was told to do, but a careful guy like LF would want to make sure, no? This is a pretty major operation he's got going here and Dontos can't be with her from the start, so Shae would be his only hope. And then there is that odd little comment about wanting to see the pigeon pie. Just a throwaway line? A random coincidence? From GRRM? Maybe...

And we only have Tyrion's POV when it comes to describing Shae, and he was smitten, but the image I get is a little sex pot. She's not glamorous in a princess sort of way, but she is young, very pretty and an expert seductress. The soldiers get the slatterns, the highborn get the pretty ones. If someone did bring her to camp as a plant, she was intended to get close to someone important. Again, could be Tywin's way of keep an eye on his bannermen, or she could have been playing a double game.

In any event, she's dead now, so I guess it really doesn't matter.

[Colonel Green]

With the hairnet, yes that is what she was told to do, but a careful guy like LF would want to make sure, no?

A careful guy wouldn't hinge his escape plan on a girl with no athletic background scaling down a cliff.

[Mal Malenkirk]

All fair points. I can't remember the timeline exactly, but doesn't Tyrion have the conversation with Shae immediately after the meeting with Tywin, Cersei etc. where Tyrion first finds out? This could have been before an preps are underway, and if there were, Shae would simply have said, 'well the cooks are already preparing the menu.' Instead, she uses the servant grapevine, declaring with certainty that she knows it is true even though she should only have rumors. At this point, the only ones who know about the wedding are Tywin, Tyrion and Cersei, but is it possible Littlefinger knows as well, since he was the one who informed Tywin about the Willas Tyrell plot? Would Tywin fill LF in on the plan considering he (LF) is the broker for the entire Tyrell alliance, or would LF be on a need-to-know in this matter and this is just further evidence that Shae was Tywin's all along?

I am not sure what you are arguing here.

Shae seemed to be aware of the wedding a little too soon for your liking and you theorize that she knew because Tywin told her? I hope not, this would suggest that Tywin was Shae's spy. ;)

Handler-Spy information sharing does not flow in that direction! Spies tells handlers what they know, handlers don't share their plans with spies, for obvious reasons.

[Hos the Hostage]

OP: Coincidentially, I saw this LF quote in someone's signature today and wondered along this same lines. The quote was this:

"Everyone wants something, Alayne. And when you know what a man wants you know who he is, and how to move him"

I thought, what did LF know Tyrion wanted? He knew about Tysha. We know Tyrion wanted someone to love him, and LF knew it too, surely. Who pretended to love and reached a position enough to manipulate Tyrion? Shae.

[Colonel Green]

Who pretended to love and reached a position enough to manipulate Tyrion? Shae.

When did Shae manipulate Tyrion?

[Mikkel]

Littlefinger's pawn would act like that because Sansa's life being in danger keeps her dependent on Littlefinger for protection. Or Shae could have gone rogue and just wanted revenge because she was jealous of Sansa.

That's possible of course, but just staying away from King's Landing and the Lannisters makes Sansa dependent on Littlefinger already, if anything he'd want to hedge his bets and up the chances of her survival in case she was captured. It's not like Sansa's particularly likely to go running to Cersei for help (she's learned that lesson!). But maybe I just don't understand the way someone like LF thinks, a fact I'm not altogether unhappy about.