Melissandre is a cop-out device and nothing more

[of man and wolf]

I have to say I've been reading the books again and when I come across her in the books it's a serious chore to get past some of the things she gets up to.

It's like she was solely created so that GRRM could finalize and sort out certain ends that needed to be tied up quick, or he didn't really know how otherwise. Plot device copouts.

She manages to give Stannis Renly's entire army(well almost entire) by murdering him in his tent with some shadow. She does the same to Penrose at Storms End after Davos smuggles her into the castle.

She burns that wargs eagle so that Stannis can mount his surpise attack on the wildlings.

She glamours Mance and Rattleshirt so that it isn't really Mance she burns.

I mean really.

When Stannis does not have her around, he loses his battles. When she's there, she serves him up victory upon victory in the simplest manners possible. To be honest, people on these boards complain that D and D don't do Stannis any jjustice on the show and yet GRRM doesn't really do him any in his own books. Mel is his answer to everything. His little secret weapon.

She might be my least liked character simply because all she is for GRRM is an easy way out of any and all situations he seems to write himself into.

[Leonardo]

Meli burns the eagle when the battle is already ongoing so... no

And melisandre is one of my favorite characters by far, though a good deal of that is due to carice van houten

Dat body

[JonathanTheBold]

so are you claiming to know her overall importance before the series is even finished and that you know more about theses books and writing in general than an award winning author

[Balerion06]

Isn't that supposed to be the point? That because she's so useful, Stannis keeps her around and most people see her as his' "Red Queen". It's because she nearly always gets desirable (at least in the short term) results for him, Stannis is tempted to look away from her rather extreme tendencies. It's also exactly this reasoning as to why he didn't use her on the Blackwater; because then people would say that the victory wasn't his but hers.

[of man and wolf]

My opinion is that she just hurts Stans chapters. Hey, just give her whatever she needs, and then she'll go and win your battles and wars for you. Want this guy dead? No problem, she's got a shadow baby for that.

Need to pretend a guy is dead? Yeah, she'll cover that one too.

The sad fact is Davos was right. If she went to Kings landing with Stannis, she would have won tha battle for him and his men would become hers. She'd just get some shadow baby to filter it's way into the keep and kill the boy king. Stannis need not bother showing up.

I mean why stop with Renly, and Penrose? Why not just carry on.

Guess I'm just not a fan of the magic in the story. It applies to any character that employs magic as well.

[of man and wolf]

Isn't that supposed to be the point? That because she's so useful, Stannis keeps her around and most people see her as his' "Red Queen". It's because she nearly always gets desirable (at least in the short term) results for him, Stannis is tempted to look away from her rather extreme tendencies. It's also exactly this reasoning as to why he didn't use her on the Blackwater; because then people would say that the victory wasn't his but hers.

True, but doesn't this make Stannis look like a tool? He hasn't won anything without her.

I fear for Stannis if he meets up with the Boltons because without Mel, dude is getting flayed.

[Leonardo]

Stannis' biggest accomplishments were done without melisandre, and his most divisive and controversial all have to do with her.

1. Siege of storm's end when he was like 17

2. Took dragon stone and proceeded to rule it well

3. Battle of Fair Isle. He beat the world's best navy at their own game

The irony of the whole thing is that she arguably weakens his claim more than anyone else. Aside from killing renly, much of the rest was folly.

[Dr. Pepper]

I have to say I've been reading the books again and when I come across her in the books it's a serious chore to get past some of the things she gets up to.

It's like she was solely created so that GRRM could finalize and sort out certain ends that needed to be tied up quick, or he didn't really know how otherwise. Plot device copouts.

She manages to give Stannis Renly's entire army(well almost entire) by murdering him in his tent with some shadow. She does the same to Penrose at Storms End after Davos smuggles her into the castle.

She burns that wargs eagle so that Stannis can mount his surpise attack on the wildlings.

She glamours Mance and Rattleshirt so that it isn't really Mance she burns.

I mean really.

When Stannis does not have her around, he loses his battles. When she's there, she serves him up victory upon victory in the simplest manners possible. To be honest, people on these boards complain that D and D don't do Stannis any jjustice on the show and yet GRRM doesn't really do him any in his own books. Mel is his answer to everything. His little secret weapon.

She might be my least liked character simply because all she is for GRRM is an easy way out of any and all situations he seems to write himself into.

She's a pretty shitty secret weapon considering the only game changing thing she's done is convert Selyse and make herself appear useful enough for Stannis to use her. Stannis is further away from the throne than he ever was. Killing Renly and Penrose didn't solve anything for Stannis. Mel couldn't have performed another shadowbinding since Stannis was practically depleted from her earlier magical acts. There were also too many heads to chop off at the Blackwater. Take out Joffrey and Tommen is still around. Take out Tyrion and the chain and wildfire is still there. Take out Tywin and Kevan is still there.

A truly useful weapon would have warned Stannis what she saw in her fires regarding the Blackwater, though she's not really useful enough to be able to always see what she wants to see. Even when she does see something useful, like the deaths of three kings, it's not actually helpful to Stannis' cause. No one was rushing to kneel at Stannis' feet when Balon, Joffrey and Robb died. Then we have Melisandre encouraging the burning of religious idols, burning people, pushing to burn a child. These aren't things that endear people to Stannis.

Later, Stannis' surprise attack on the wildlings was already underway when she burned Varamyr's eagle. She's not an aid in helping the Stannis endear the wildlings to him. They kneel to him because it's a matter of life and death but their looking to Jon and others rather than to Stannis. She definitely doesn't help his cause when she glamours Rattleshirt because now Stannis just looks like he's exceedingly dishonest and his word is worthless.

So yeah, excellent victories she's served up for Stannis. What a wonderful secret weapon she's been. I guess this must be why Stannis is already practically sitting the Iron Throne. Oh wait.....

[GDStark]

My take on Melisandre is that she has been given what seems to be some real powers.

The OLD gods and the NEW havent shown to help anyone but Melisandre sure has been able to effect events.

For this reason I find her a fascinating.

Probably her biggest mistake which I dont think gets enough attention is the fact that she is convinced that Stannis is the next Dragon Master.

We all know that its a Dragon Queen whose the real deal.

Will Melisandre ever realize her mistake and get on the right bandwagon? I'm not sure thats about to happen.

G.

[The Drunkard]

Nothing Melisandre has done has been a complete game changer.

She tells Stannis that if he goes to Storm's End he gets Renly's army and if he goes to King's Landing he loses to Renly. Both end up happening in a way, so that wasn't very helpful. She kills Renly and Penrose, bringing Renly's cavalry and castle over to Stannis' side. Before the book is out, he loses the army and the castle is practically abandoned, so not much long term benefit there. She burns Varamyr's eagle allowing Stannis to surprise Mance... except Mance's outriders had already signaled his arrival, so that didn't do much either (except maybe saving Jon from Varamyr).

The best assistance she's given is convincing Stannis about the great battle. All of her other magic has proved useful in the short term, but done little for him in the long run.

True, but doesn't this make Stannis look like a tool? He hasn't won anything without her.

Storm's End, Dragonstone, Fair Isle, Great Wyk, Deepwood Motte, and likely the Battle of Ice.

[Salafi Stannis]

No.

[Game Of Thrones]

:bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:

[Game Of Thrones]

I have to say I've been reading the books again and when I come across her in the books it's a serious chore to get past some of the things she gets up to.

It's like she was solely created so that GRRM could finalize and sort out certain ends that needed to be tied up quick, or he didn't really know how otherwise. Plot device copouts.

She manages to give Stannis Renly's entire army(well almost entire) by murdering him in his tent with some shadow. She does the same to Penrose at Storms End after Davos smuggles her into the castle.

She burns that wargs eagle so that Stannis can mount his surpise attack on the wildlings.

She glamours Mance and Rattleshirt so that it isn't really Mance she burns.

1. GRRM could have just cut Renly, or made SE immediately surrender after Renly's death.

2. GRRM could have just cut Varamyr.

3. True about Mance.

When Stannis does not have her around, he loses his battles. When she's there, she serves him up victory upon victory in the simplest manners possible. To be honest, people on these boards complain that D and D don't do Stannis any jjustice on the show and yet GRRM doesn't really do him any in his own books. Mel is his answer to everything. His little secret weapon.

She might be my least liked character simply because all she is for GRRM is an easy way out of any and all situations he seems to write himself into.

Oh really? Because Mel was at SE in 283? Because Mel was on Fury in Fair Isle? Because Mel was in Deepwood Motte? Because Mel is in Winterfell? Well, reread the books. And Stannis is awesome. Live with that.

Stannis haters :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:

[Romsek]

If the battle of Winterfell plays out according to the popular theory Stannis is going to crush the Frey's and Bolton's all by his lonesome while Melisandre is up at the wall discovering she's been mistaken all along as to who Azor Ahai is.

Based on the chapter where he analyses the Daeron Targaryen's victory in Dorne it's pretty clear that Stannis is almost certainly the pre-eminent military commander in Westeros.

[Game Of Thrones]

My opinion is that she just hurts Stans chapters. Hey, just give her whatever she needs, and then she'll go and win your battles and wars for you. Want this guy dead? No problem, she's got a shadow baby for that.

Need to pretend a guy is dead? Yeah, she'll cover that one too.

The sad fact is Davos was right. If she went to Kings landing with Stannis, she would have won tha battle for him and his men would become hers. She'd just get some shadow baby to filter it's way into the keep and kill the boy king. Stannis need not bother showing up.

I mean why stop with Renly, and Penrose? Why not just carry on.

Guess I'm just not a fan of the magic in the story. It applies to any character that employs magic as well.

LOL. Birthing shadow babies injure Mel as much as it injures Stan. So no.

[Game Of Thrones]

I fear for Stannis if he meets up with the Boltons because without Mel, dude is getting flayed.

Dream on. The Undying have always been wrong, right?

[Super Daario]

Nah, I don't think so.

Rereading AGOT I noticed that the red priesthood was built into the story from the get go. Then we get plenty of foreshadowing from Thoros of Myr and Beric Dondarrion. It seems clear to me that Melisandre was very carefully thought out character, not a cheap device.

[oursisthefury69]

Thread is a cop-out for not reading/understanding the books; and you more or less just don't like her because of magic, cool. Not sure why you feel like people are going to be terribly interested on dis-convincing you of your strange dislike for a single character. And where to you get off saying that Mel is just a character GRRM uses to apparently get himself out of corners he wrote himself into? Lmao, as if he's literally just creating the story as he puts the pen to the paper and then if he realizes a potential conflict later he just brings in Melisandre to use magic and fix it. You clearly have little to no idea towards the intricacies of GRRM's writing process or the overall direction of the story. "Durr ahh i hate x character in a fantasy series because they use magic," lol ok strap-in and prepare to suffer that yet to come i suppose

[Salafi Stannis]

1. GRRM could have just cut Renly, or made SE immediately surrender after Renly's death.

2. GRRM could have just cut Varamyr.

3. True about Mance.

Oh really? Because Mel was at SE in 283? Because Mel was on Fury in Fair Isle? Because Mel was in Deepwood Motte? Because Mel is in Winterfell? Well, reread the books. And Stannis is awesome. Live with that.

Stannis haters :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:

:agree: :bowdown: :thumbsup:

[Ingelheim]

If you don't like magic...you should stop reading right now. It's only going to get worse for you.