R+L= J v. 106

[John Courage]

There is plenty of canon that Jon will be King. Not so many that he is the legitimate son and heir of R+L.

106 reiterations of self-referential Meta.

I guess my request was too difficult.

Or maybe its too difficult for you to participate in a discussion without trying to control the direction it goes in. Jon being a legitimate heir to Rhaegar Targaryen is a relevant issue connected with R+L=J, and a completely appropriate topic of conversation within the thread, especially considering the implications involved with Jon's possible legitimacy in regards to his character development.

[Le Cygne]

Relevant bump attempt:

How would you prefer for Jon to find out: Howland Reed or communication somehow with Bran who has learned from his tree?

I think I'd like him to be alone, put the clues together and one day just know.

[Pigeon Pie]

Disney?

Are you arguing that this is impossible in a series with zombies and dragons in it or?

[WeaselPie]

Are you arguing that this is impossible in a series with zombies and dragons in it or?

Are you arguing GRRM is writing a Disney ending? Happily ever after, holding hands and singing?

[Pigeon Pie]

Are you arguing GRRM is writing a Disney ending? Happily ever after, holding hands and singing?

Holding hands and singing while dead and actually being ghosts in a crypt full of corpses is what I said. I don't think Walt Disney would write that, GRRM might though.

[Le Cygne]

Disney doesn't have the market on singing. The series is called A Song of Ice and Fire, after all.

[Pigeon Pie]

Disney doesn't have the market on singing. The series is called A Song of Ice and Fire, after all.

And people who sing and lose their tongues afterwards. Or their heads. Or any other body part.

[Le Cygne]

Exactly. Take back the songs! I thought your idea sounded fine.

[WeaselPie]

dead ghost parents holding hands and singing.....

I think these threads have jumped all the sharks that ever existed

[Pigeon Pie]

Exactly. Take back the songs! I thought your idea sounded fine.

Thank you! I know it's cheesy, but when it comes to fantasy, I like those "poetic" things. Like, Jon = Ice and Fire, R+L = Fire+Ice (respectively), so to make him aware they're his parents, their ghosts sing the Song of Ice and Fire to him. Especially if the song (if it does exist) is sort of explanatory. Like "Hey son sorry I died and left you but hey you're going to save the worrrrrrld" sort of thing.

[Pigeon Pie]

dead ghost parents holding hands and singing.....

I think these threads have jumped all the sharks that ever existed

It's been 106 threads, people have talked over and over about every single detail concerning the theory, what did you expect?

[WeaselPie]

It's been 106 threads, people have talked over and over about every single detail concerning the theory, what did you expect?

...considering it's thousands of pages, I expected something more than dead ghost (alleged) parents holding hand and singing

[Pigeon Pie]

...considering it's thousands of pages, I expected something more than dead ghost (alleged) parents holding hand and singing

If you mean the novels were thousands of pages, I would like to remind you they were not all material about Jon and Rhaegar and Lyanna that we can discuss and argue about for 106 threads. We have to talk about something. And not to mention the essential question I was answering was "How do you want J's parentage to be revealed" and this was my answer. How I want it to be revealed. We were not discussing this as a fact, this was me saying something I want.

[Dorian Martell]

hodor

[Duke-of-Kaisa]

I wrote this quote on the last R + L = J thread yesterday, not sure if anyone saw it as the thread seems to be gone now. I have not seen others mention this, but it think it's quite important. From ASOS:1 paperback page: 569: "How did I ever mount her before, without saddle or stirrups, and a sword in one hand? That was another question he could not answer. Thunder rumbled softly in the distance, but above him the clouds were breaking up. Jon searched the sky until he found the Ice Dragon, then turned the mare north for the Wall and Castle Black. The throb of pain in his thigh muscle made him wince as he put his heels into the old man's horse. I am going home, he told himself. But if that was true, why did he feel so hollow? He rode till dawn, while the stars stared down like eyes." I think there is a lot to be taken from this passage. His ability to ride without saddle, bridle and with sword in hand at a time of need, may foreshadow his ability to ride a dragon to battle. The fact he searches the sky for the Ice Dragon and the stars watch him as he rides to the Wall, why - unless he's seeking approval from them? Castle Black does not feel like home however his duty leads him on to warn of the comming invasion. In ADWD we see his brothers of the NW try to "end his watch", so now he will be free of his obligations to the nights watch - but I think he will still feel obligated to guard the realms of men from the Others. I really am interested to know whether the original "Ice" was an Other blade and whether the "last hero" will use one of their own blades against them or a Valyrian steel/Dragonglass sword. I think the original Ice is down in the lower levels of Winterfell's crypts and will be important in the comming battle. How this blade relates to the Firesword of Azzor Ahai, i am also interested in knowing...

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Relevant bump attempt:

How would you prefer for Jon to find out: Howland Reed or communication somehow with Bran who has learned from his tree?

As a reader, I'd like Howland to tell us about what happened at ToJ. There are no weirwoods there, right? So Bran can't see that far.

Jon, however, I believe has a bigger chance finding out through Bran, in a coma-like dream, just like Bran had when he communicated with the Three Eyed Raven. I'm only not sure whether Bran will first need to find out for himself, because that would require Jon to be in a coma for quite some time in the books...

Though Bran himself was in a coma for a while too, so perhaps it isn't so bad.

[MtnLion]

Need a reference to the tower of joy? See my signature for links.

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

Hey Folks!

Thought you'd all like to know that E05 of Radio Westeros is available at last, and it's all about RLJ :)

Here's a breakdown of what we discuss in the extended episode:

• Summary of RLJ
  
• Knight of the Laughing Tree
  
• Blue Roses
  
• Kidnapping Theory
  
• Jon's Similarities with R + L, with Ygrain!
  
• Tower of Joy analysis courtesy of Mtn Lion
  
• For the First Time in Years -- Ned + Rhaegar
  
• Music by Joel Murray
  
• The meaning of 'A Song of Ice and Fire'
  
• RLJ's relevance in ASoIaF
  

... plus our usual assortment of readings and extra touches, with an advert from Westeros courtesy of our own Alia!

Listen or download here

Subscribe here

We hope you enjoy this belated 100th anniversary gift!

:cheers:

LG and YB

[Ellfoy]

I'd like to see a list of R+L=J innuendos without Jon=King innuendos that having nothing to do with R+L=J.

There aren't many.

There are the links in the OP and this if you want: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/114708-rlj-re-read-again-list-of-clues/#entry6064313

Edit : And now The Episode 5 of Radio Westeros ! Looks great !

[Tenafly Viper]

Hey Folks!

Thought you'd all like to know that E05 of Radio Westeros is available at last, and it's all about RLJ :)

Here's a breakdown of what we discuss in the extended episode:

• Summary of RLJ
• Knight of the Laughing Tree
• Blue Roses
• Kidnapping Theory
• Jon's Similarities with R + L, with Ygrain!
• Tower of Joy analysis courtesy of Mtn Lion
• For the First Time in Years -- Ned + Rhaegar
• Music by Joel Murray
• The meaning of 'A Song of Ice and Fire'
• RLJ's relevance in ASoIaF

... plus our usual assortment of readings and extra touches, with an advert from Westeros courtesy of our own Alia!

Listen or download here

Subscribe here

We hope you enjoy this belated 100th anniversary gift!

:cheers:

LG and YB

I like the Arthurian comparisons quite a bit. We know Martin draws on history and other works for his inspiration so it is nice to hear of those potential sources. It might be nice to do a podcast specifically on those he has mentioned and their relationship to ASoIaF. I think you'd excel at it. I'm almost through the podcast now. Great job again. It was exciting to see it pop up in the feed this morning. Something to pass the time slogging it into work.