Heresy 135 The Hammer of the Waters

[Eira Seren]

I'm no geologist, but it seems to me that Fae Magicians Who Identify Themselves as Singers of the Songs of the Earth are most likely to use a shift in local plate techtonics to do some real smashup work.

In other words, they created local earthquakes (on the land or under the nearby seas) which created the BIG ASS WAVES under discussion and broke up the land. Now, how they did that I don't know, but I have a guess.

One idea that strikes me as possible, given our recent discussions in Heresy 135, is that the Singers may have ridden/guided/lured Fyreworms back & forth through the selected earth to weaken it and cause it to suddenly collapse.

Do that under the Narrow Sea and the Arm of Dorne is smashed.

Do it even more widely and intensively under the land North of RiverRun and North of the Vale, and you get Iron Islands in the West, The Bite with the 3 Sisters in the East, and a very marshy Neck in the middle. (So vampirish, yes?)

In both cases, the most noticeable/memorable part of it all could well be the BAWs, rather than the collapse of the underlying earth itself.

This method also fits in with the idea that the Singers have only been able to do this twice, in all the millennia. They're very patient folks. It's a darned slow and labor intensive process to undermine the foundations of the earth, and if your people are few in number, you have to work slow and steady for a LONG time to get your results.

Nothing so cheesy, just a calving of the ice sheet creating a massive tsunami.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weald%E2%80%93Artois_Anticline and; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storegga_Slide

The first relates to the breaking of the Arm - see formation of the English Channel; and the second to Moat Caillin, which you'll recall I compared to the Forth Valley area

Cheese aside, these are great explanations, all along there's a bit of bias in looking at the "Hammer of the Waters" and trying to determine what control the Singers might have over water, but to move one element, they can easily use another. So your descriptions make me see a group of them singing away to move the earth. And the idea that there's got to be a long game, which we only see culminate in the BIG ASS WAVE seems to fit with the format magic usually takes in the series -- slow, subtle and steady, on it's way to bigger events.

I like that.

Maybe "waking giants from Earth" fits in as well?

Not related to your post, but maybe worth remembering:

1) The war between the CotF and the First Men had a heavy toll on both sides, but more for the CotF

2) The CotF were always low in number

=> The CotF agreed on the pact or they would have been extincted then, but the First Men didn't realize how low their numbers were?

=> The second hammer failed because there weren't enough CotF left to make it successful?

Another good possibility.

I agree as to the giving the weirwood to the fire suggests dedicating them to their gods although that doesn't necessarily mean those gods were fire gods.

As to Moat Caillin, the legend says that the Children called down the Hammer from there, but it occurs to me that although we've tended to interpret it as calling it down from there on to somewhere else, it may in fact have been a Samson in the Temple moment, deliberately calling it down upon themselves and their captors.

So the SIngers were possibly willing to sacrifice themselves, a calculated risk.

Can we say that the Second Hammer really failed? For me, it is the First Hammer that failed. The First Men were able to cross the broken arm with simple boats I guess. However, the Neck is inpenetrable if one does not know the approaches. Therefore, The Neck is a better line of defense than the arms of Dorne. It was proven to be so when the Andals came.

To an extent I suppose that depends on what it was intended to do. The Arm of Dorne was successfully broken, but too late. The question I offered above was whether the Hammer of the Waters was intended to break the Neck or destroy Moat Caillin; either outcome might be accounted a success but the script might be quite different.

You both bring up excellent points. Something that really jumps out at me is that we aren't hearing this information from Leaf, or treeish folks, we're hearing it from Andal histories. Failure is a matter of perspective and definition.

[Eira Seren]

The thing that confuses me most with regards the 2nd hammer is that the CoTF and the crannogmen grew close. Was this before, during or after the fact. If it was before then it implies there were already crannogs present around the area of moat cailin. If this was the case then the CoTF had to be pretty confidant in what their magic was going to achieve as they could have destroyed the crannogs??no?

It's so vague. The wording seems to imply the Crannogmen were already there.

And to me that suggests that the Crannogmen either got some of the genetic magic genes (or learned it) via this relationship, or may have had it before, and the relationship was one of alliance. As Wolfmaid pointed out in her Wildlings essay, the First Men weren't exactly a unified group, with unified kingdoms. Heck, even the 7K were uncomfortably unified, if everyone agreed to overlook the non-unity bits. Few Southerners (Andal descent?) appear to have a good opinion of the Crannogmen. And certainly not the Ironborn, who I'm guessing tried to raid the area of the Neck.

So, it does seem like their plan should include not taking out all their allies.

In my understanding the crannogs originate from the destruction of Moat Cailin by the second hammer. So there wouldn't be crannogmen before?

That's the other side of this debate. So far I'm guessing it's the other way, but I'd assume the case can be made this way. . . help fill me in?

ETA: if for some reason you find the OP difficult to read, there's a link in my signature to a version where the formatting worked. Apologies again.

[Black Crow]

See, you are expressing the confusion of many. The hammer of waters is the key to the timeline, because who were the Children trying to stop? It's problematic because I believe there is a passage that states the First Men were aligned with the Children at the time of the hammer, so who were they aligned against if not the Andals?

Nah, the passage in question is the one that says the crannogmen and the children grew close. This in itself is significant because of course the First Men or at the very least the Starks were at war, until the latter won and the Stark of Winterfell married the Marsh King's daughter. That would therefore place the Hammer before the Starks defeated the Marsh King [and took Moat Caillin?], and perhaps before the Pact.

[Black Crow]

Whence comes the "insider source" stuff?

Very very weird [cue Twilight Zone theme] , it appears to have been randomly inserted into the middle of my quoted post.

[Eira Seren]

That rather depends on who the Others really are.

If the demons made of snow and ice and cold* are Craster's sons then they are clearly not a separate race with their own culture, but are "made" by somebody else, and if so the prime candidates have to be the three-fingered tree-huggers whose dark magics broke the Arm - and perhaps raised the Wall too.

* © Stannis Baratheon

There's got to be an element of Andal bias with these descriptions of 'dark magics,' though it seems like even the earlier Starks didn't think that some things were ok -- take the Night's King, for instance.

This may have been said before, but what if a condition of the pact was that the Singer's weren't allowed to use ice magic anymore? And then either at Moat Cailin, or when they went north, they broke that condition?

Possibly. It seems that the basalt wall was in place before the Hammer. Was this like the Wall up north in that it stretched from coast to coast? If so then why did it not work in keeping the unwanteds south of the wall?

Or was it a fortification with smaller outposts where troops could keep watch for enemies heading north?

Whichever, when the wall failed to protect, in a final effort, it was destroyed, and the surrounding lands, with the Hammer. (Maybe what will happen up north later on)

The towers though seem to be from a later time (after the Hammer) to defend against Andals? The descriptions of the towers show they were built at different times by different peoples, I believe. Or at least by different peoples.

So, possibly the Singers, with the help of Crannogmen, withdrew from the now named neck and called down the thunder while fleeing northward into the forests.

Then there is the old Rickard Stark. He conquered the Marsh king and brought their blood into the Stark family. I don't know the time line of this conquest, (it's after the Hammer) but I wonder what made the Starks want to overthrow the swampland. Probably to gain control of the neck's natural defenses to secure the north from invaders of the seventh kind.

Moat Cailin, like Winterfell, really could have been built in stages. Something happened there, though, that made all future repair or building stop, and that event seems to point to the Hammer. It seems odd that the North continued to use it, but not regularly man it and invest in repairing it. The place gives a lot of characters the creeps; I'm sure they see those "cold northern ghosts" lurking out beyond the light of the cookfire.

Well yeah. The timeline is blurry.

Of course there is the notion that there were/are factions within the Singers that want nothing to do with men. It is possible a group of Singers called down the thunder on men and Singers alike.

Another alternative to the basalt wall is it did not stand where the pieces are now resting. The waters may have moved these large stones from their original location.

So the stones could possibly be from other fortifications or structures nearby.

It's pretty clear though, that the majority of the towers and the curtain wall are fairly demolished. There's not much talk about nearby villages or fortifications being built later. Often these materials are lifted from ruins to be recycled in other building projects. It seems unweildy to cart these gigantic stones off thru the marshes, though maybe the Crannogmen know a way. . .

[redrose]

When did boats arrive on the scene? I'm pretty sure the CoTF would have been aware of their existence before the hammer of the waters which again bugs me about the futility of bringing down the hammer??? Who is it going to stop? The Andals arrived from Essos on boats so what's to stop them sailing to the north even if the land was broken in two?I can understand the use of magic in breaking of the arm of Dorne but to use magic in bringing down the hammers doesn't make any sense to me at least.

[Melifeather]

Are we all in agreement that the hammer occurred before the Pact? Furthermore, do we all agree that the Starks were already living at Winterfell at the time they defeated the Marsh King?

[addicted to snow]

Do you guys/girls interpret the Hammer of the Waters to be more akin to (A) Peter Gabriel's 'Sledge Hammer' or (B) M. C. Hammer???

Did the leader of the Greenseers say "STOP!....... Hammer Time" or how exactly was order given to call forth the Hammer of the Waters???

I know, I know, I really need to stop, but I am 2 Legit 2 Quit...

[Eira Seren]

Do you guys/girls interpret the Hammer of the Waters to be more akin to (A) Peter Gabriel's 'Sledge Hammer' or ( B) M. C. Hammer???

Did the leader of the Greenseers say "STOP!....... Hammer Time" or how exactly was order given to call forth the Hammer of the Waters???

I know, I know, I really need to stop, but I am 2 Legit 2 Quit...

:laugh:

Guess we figured out what went wrong. Magic is a sword without a hilt. Imagine what happens when you throw in a dance party.

Failure by flash mob.

i

When did boats arrive on the scene? I'm pretty sure the CoTF would have been aware of their existence before the hammer of the waters which again bugs me about the futility of bringing down the hammer??? Who is it going to stop? The Andals arrived from Essos on boats so what's to stop them sailing to the north even if the land was broken in two?I can understand the use of magic in breaking of the arm of Dorne but to use magic in bringing down the hammers doesn't make any sense to me at least.

They would sail around, possibly an invasion of some kind happened at Hardhome, and I'm guessing it may have come by sea.

Again, they chose to do their bit with the Hammer at Moat Cailin. Why? Defensible position? Something they didn't want Andals to get their hands on (other than key defensible location?). I can't figure out why the Singers thought it would be a good idea to just split the land entirely, when they seem so interested in the connectedness of all things.

ETA: You're in good company with your doubts. I wasn't there back then, but others of you might remember:

From TZE, Posted 18 December 2011 - 09:51 AM

Supposedly the Children grew close to the crannogmen when the latter brought the waters down upon the Neck. It's unclear if this event took place during the initial First Men/Children conflict (and the Children ended up not shattering Westeros in the same way they did the Arm of Dorne cause they decided they liked the crannogmen) or if it took place during a later Andal invasion. Moat Cailin is supposedly older than Winterfell, and had supposedly already been built before the Children brought down the waters (as they did their magic in the Children's Tower). The Children don't seem to have built stone castles, though, so that points to the idea that the First Men built Moat Cailin, which would point towards the idea that the Children brought down the waters during an Andal invasion. But if so, that means the purpose of Moat Cailin was originally different, as the causeway is unnecessary if the Neck isn't already a swampy death trap. And as the Andals obviously had boats (the First Men crossed the Arm of Dorne, but the Andals must have come by ship) bringing down the waters on the Neck makes little sense as a military strategy if everyone was fighting the Andals, since the Andals could just build some ships and go around the Neck. I don't think the Children were working this kind of magic on a whim. It makes more sense if they were fighting the First Men, whose seafaring capabilities are less well known.

Basically, the whole series of events is very unclear.

[Eira Seren]

Are we all in agreement that the hammer occurred before the Pact? Furthermore, do we all agree that the Starks were already living at Winterfell at the time they defeated the Marsh King?

Am not voting just yet. I do think the Starks were already at Winterfell, probably building onto it bit by bit.

Unless. Winterfell originally was a faerie mound that the Starks also got as part of the deal with the marriage to the Marsh King's daughter. The Marsh King seems to have kept the Marsh, so that wouldn't have been the dowry, but maybe Winterfell was?

[Black Crow]

There's got to be an element of Andal bias with these descriptions of 'dark magics,' though it seems like even the earlier Starks didn't think that some things were ok -- take the Night's King, for instance.

I don't think so. The phrase "dark magics" is used in the context of the breaking of the Arm, not the Hammer and Moat Caillin, and its also according to the singers - ie; an oral ballad tradition rather than something written down by Andal septons

[Black Crow]

There are, as I mentioned, some problems with Moat Caillin itself which may bear upon some of this, though I'm not sure if there are answers or ever will be.

Here's Catelyn again:

Just beyond, through the mists, she glimpsed the walls and towers of Moat Cailin . . . or what remained of them. Immense blocks of black basalt, each as large as a crofter's cottage, lay scattered and tumbled like a child's wooden blocks, half-sunk in the soft boggy soil. Nothing else remained of a curtain wall that had once stood as high as Winterfell's. The wooden keep was gone entirely, rotted away a thousand years past, with not so much as a timber to mark where it had stood. All that was left of the great stronghold of the First Men were three towers . . . three where there had once been twenty, if the taletellers could be believed.

The Gatehouse Tower looked sound enough, and even boasted a few feet of standing wall to either side of it. The Drunkard's Tower, off in the bog where the south and west walls had once met, leaned like a man about to spew a bellyful of wine into the gutter. And the tall, slender Children's Tower, where legend said the children of the forest had once called upon their nameless gods to send the hammer of the waters, had lost half its crown. It looked as if some great beast had taken a bite out of the crenellations along the tower top, and spit the rubble across the bog. All three towers were green with moss. A tree was growing out between the stones on the north side of the Gatehouse Tower, its gnarled limbs festooned with ropy white blankets of ghostskin.

As I've pointed out before the context of this destruction is odd. According to the histories as revealed to us the First Men turned up and went to war with the children, who responded by breaking the Arm of Dorne, but this failed to stop the invaders and in the end the Pact was agreed, leading to years of sweetness and light until the Andals tooled up and conquered Westeros in turn, except for the North because they couldn't fight their way across the Neck. And so it remained until Aegon arrived with his dragons and Torrhen Stark knelt before him.

The problem here is that since Aegon came 300 years ago, this means that the castle was ruined long before and with the keep rotted away 1,000 years ago, very long before. There's also oblique confirmation of this in Robb's confidence that the condition of the castle isn't important and that the position is strong enough to be held indefinitely without it; which would suggest this is something he already knew rather than a happy inspiration.

This in turn would suggest some earlier destruction of the castle rather than mere neglect in the years since Aegon established the Pax Targaryena, but how much earlier? Was it destroyed by the Hammer, with the wooden keep being a replacement, because if the stonework came later there would have to be some history of what happened to it.

So cast it further back.

Given the mists of uncertainty was the Hammer actually called down from the children's tower, which would suggest something in alliance with First Men or was it called down earlier when the site was a a sacred place? The point of that being that if we separate the ruined fortress of Moat Caillin from the actual deed then it does raise the possibility that the Hammer of the Waters and the breaking of the Arm may be one and the same.

[Melifeather]

The Wiki states that the Marsh King was defeated only centuries before the Conquest, whereas Moat Cailin thousands of years. The Marsh King likely lived in Greywater Watch instead of Moat Cailin.

Edited to add: After the Arm of Dorne was washed away, First Men would have had to use boats also, unless no more First Men arrived and only pressed North?

[Melifeather]

There are, as I mentioned, some problems with Moat Caillin itself which may bear upon some of this, though I'm not sure if there are answers or ever will be.

Here's Catelyn again:

Just beyond, through the mists, she glimpsed the walls and towers of Moat Cailin . . . or what remained of them. Immense blocks of black basalt, each as large as a crofter's cottage, lay scattered and tumbled like a child's wooden blocks, half-sunk in the soft boggy soil. Nothing else remained of a curtain wall that had once stood as high as Winterfell's. The wooden keep was gone entirely, rotted away a thousand years past, with not so much as a timber to mark where it had stood. All that was left of the great stronghold of the First Men were three towers . . . three where there had once been twenty, if the taletellers could be believed.

The Gatehouse Tower looked sound enough, and even boasted a few feet of standing wall to either side of it. The Drunkard's Tower, off in the bog where the south and west walls had once met, leaned like a man about to spew a bellyful of wine into the gutter. And the tall, slender Children's Tower, where legend said the children of the forest had once called upon their nameless gods to send the hammer of the waters, had lost half its crown. It looked as if some great beast had taken a bite out of the crenellations along the tower top, and spit the rubble across the bog. All three towers were green with moss. A tree was growing out between the stones on the north side of the Gatehouse Tower, its gnarled limbs festooned with ropy white blankets of ghostskin.

As I've pointed out before the context of this destruction is odd. According to the histories as revealed to us the First Men turned up and went to war with the children, who responded by breaking the Arm of Dorne, but this failed to stop the invaders and in the end the Pact was agreed, leading to years of sweetness and light until the Andals tooled up and conquered Westeros in turn, except for the North because they couldn't fight their way across the Neck. And so it remained until Aegon arrived with his dragons and Torrhen Stark knelt before him.

The problem here is that since Aegon came 300 years ago, this means that the castle was ruined long before and with the keep rotted away 1,000 years ago, very long before. There's also oblique confirmation of this in Robb's confidence that the condition of the castle isn't important and that the position is strong enough to be held indefinitely without it; which would suggest this is something he already knew rather than a happy inspiration.

This in turn would suggest some earlier destruction of the castle rather than mere neglect in the years since Aegon established the Pax Targaryena, but how much earlier? Was it destroyed by the Hammer, with the wooden keep being a replacement, because if the stonework came later there would have to be some history of what happened to it.

So cast it further back.

Given the mists of uncertainty was the Hammer actually called down from the children's tower, which would suggest something in alliance with First Men or was it called down earlier when the site was a a sacred place? The point of that being that if we separate the ruined fortress of Moat Caillin from the actual deed then it does raise the possibility that the Hammer of the Waters and the breaking of the Arm may be one and the same.

I think it makes sense that the hammer caused the destruction of Moat Cailin, and it happened before the Pact.

[Black Crow]

After the Arm of Dorne was washed away, First Men would have had to use boats also, unless no more First Men arrived and only pressed North?

The business of the breaking of the Arm being too late rather implies that there were more than enough of the First Men in Westeros to destroy the Forest Civilisation without requiring any additional seaborne invaders

[Melifeather]

The reason why I'm picking away at this bit by bit is because one step is contingent upon the next.

1) First Men arrive

2) Arm of Dorne washed away

3) Moat Cailin built

4) Conflict/Invaders (First Men again or Andals?)

5) Hammer of Waters

6) Pact is signed

[Black Crow]

The reason why I'm picking away at this bit by bit is because one step is contingent upon the next.

1) First Men arrive

2) Arm of Dorne washed away

3) Moat Cailin built

4) Conflict/Invaders (First Men again or Andals?)

5) Hammer of Waters

6) Pact is signed

Ah, but this is where I'm a bit wary cos it aint necessarily so, and there are a couple of quite different possible scenarios.

We're not really given any detail of the conflict between the First Men and the Forest Civilisation, other than that it lasted for a long time. However the context offered in both Maester Luwin's history lesson and the Hedge Knight introduction suggests an initial period of co-existence before it turned nasty, rather than the First Men arriving at Dover and fighting their way northwards. We're probably looking at more localised conflicts spread over a wide area rather than a military campaign as waged by Aegon the Conqueror - or Harren the Black come to that. Such a conflict would also see localised alliances and feuds and account for the crannogmen and the children growing close in the face of a threat to both from a particular warlord or king.

In other words the Hammer of the Waters and the breaking of the Arm may indeed be one and the same and called down from a sacred site now known as Moat Cailin and in this context its worth reflecting that cailín is a Gaelic word for a young maiden and here we have to note that the Sistermen, who are related to the Cannogmen, worship the Lady of the Waves as well as the Storm God. Thus, Moat Cailin perhaps shouldn't be regarded as originally a fortress but as a sidhe hill surrounded by water and thus sacred to the Crannogmen as well as the children.

This scenario fits easily into the context of Maester Luwin's history and the pact following the breaking of the Arm, but doesn't explain where the Long Night came from, unless it was a delayed reaction to the Hammer.

The alternative scenario, which is very tempting but isn't supported by Maester Luwin's history, sees three successive attempts to halt the First Men; first by breaking the Arm, then by trying to break the Neck and finally, and ultimately successfully by building the Wall, albeit at the cost of unleashing the Long Night while it was being done.

ETA: spelling

[LynnS]

Do you guys/girls interpret the Hammer of the Waters to be more akin to (A) Peter Gabriel's 'Sledge Hammer' or ( B) M. C. Hammer???

Did the leader of the Greenseers say "STOP!....... Hammer Time" or how exactly was order given to call forth the Hammer of the Waters???

I know, I know, I really need to stop, but I am 2 Legit 2 Quit...

That's hilarious ATS. You really are the badest cat around. I only came here for the conversation. There is no agenda, no hit list and never was. That's somebody else's fabrication. I think the hammer got his clock cleaned and not by me. The greenseers didn't just say STOP, they revolted.

[Urrax2]

Why is Moat Cailin called a moat?

[Melifeather]

Ah, but this is where I'm a bit wary cos it aint necessarily so, and there are a couple of quite different possible scenarios.

We're not really given any detail of the conflict between the First Men and the Forest Civilisation, other than that it lasted for a long time. However the context offered in both Maester Luwin's history lesson and the Hedge Knight introduction suggests an initial period of co-existence before it turned nasty, rather than the First Men arriving at Dover and fighting their way northwards. We're probably looking at more localised conflicts spread over a wide area rather than a military campaign as waged by Aegon the Conqueror - or Harren the Black come to that. Such a conflict would also see localised alliances and feuds and account for the crannogmen and the children growing close in the face of a threat to both from a particular warlord or king.

In other words the Hammer of the Waters and the breaking of the Arm may indeed be one and the same and called down from a sacred site now known as Moat Cailin and in this context its worth reflecting that cailín is a Gaelic word for a young maiden and here we have to note that the Sistermen, who are related to the Cannogmen, worship the Lady of the Waves as well as the Storm God. Thus, Moat Cailin perhaps shouldn't be regarded as originally a fortress but as a sidhe hill surrounded by water and thus sacred to the Crannogmen as well as the children.

This scenario fits easily into the context of Maester Luwin's history and the pact following the breaking of the Arm, but doesn't explain where the Long Night came from, unless it was a delayed reaction to the Hammer.

The alternative scenario, which is very tempting but isn't supported by Maester Luwin's history, sees three successive attempts to halt the First Men; first by breaking the Arm, then by trying to break the Neck and finally, and ultimately successfully by building the Wall, albeit at the cost of unleashing the Long Night while it was being done.

ETA: spelling

Yes, I agree the clues are not definitive and it could go either way, but again I will state that the date, time or period of the hammer of waters is the key to the timeline. If we knew when exactly it happened, I think the rest could be sorted out in a more concrete manner. Maester Luwin puts the Andal invasion after the Pact, but it's a suspicion of mine that the Maesters deliberately manipulated history. If Moat Cailin was built and controlled by the First Men 10,000 years ago, who were the "southron armies" that they held back? The age of the ruin should make any reader suspicious of the Andal version.

The following are some passages, that when read together, I feel cast some doubt onto the Andal version of an invasion after the Pact.

Moat Cailin was a stronghold of the First Men.

“…Bran heard talk of Moat Cailin, the ancient stronghold the First Men had built at the top of the Neck.”

“ Catelyn recognized the banner, the bull moose of the Hornwoods, brown on its dark orange field. Just beyond , through the mists, she glimpsed the walls and towers of Moat Cailin … or what remained of them….

….All that was left of the great stronghold of the First Men were three towers … three where there had once been twenty , if the taletellers could be believed.”

The North controlled Moat Cailin.

(per Catelyn POV)

“…It’s said that the old Kings in the North could stand at Moat Cailin and throw back hosts ten times the size of their own.”

“Robb will never look on Winterfell again,” Theon promised. “He will break himself on Moat Cailin, as every southron army has done for ten thousand years. We hold the north now, ser.”

“How will you get the northmen to the north?” her brother Edmure asked. “The ironmen control the sunset sea. The Greyjoys hold Moat Cailin as well. No army has ever taken Moat Cailin from the south. Even to march against it is madness. We could be trapped on the causeway, with the ironborn before us and angry Freys at our backs.”

The Andals are stopped at the Neck

Bran POV per Maester Luwin

“The Andals were the first, a race of tall, fair-haired warriors who came with steel and fire and the seven-pointed star of the new gods painted on their chests . The wars lasted hundreds of years, but in the end the six southron kingdoms all fell before them. Only here, where the King in the North threw back every army that tried to cross the Neck, did the rule of the First Men endure. The Andals burnt out the weirwood groves, hacked down the faces, slaughtered the children where they found them, and everywhere proclaimed the triumph of the Seven over the old gods. So the children fled north—”