UK Politics: Referendum day!

[Corvinus85]

Yeah, but, what do you do if it doesn't go 80% one way? Keep rerunning the referendum until it swings 80% one way or another? Nuke Scotland to get rid of the problem?

I would answer yes to the question in bold. But I understand my views are not realistic. Say Scotland votes for independence, my questions are how will the transition period look like. All the UK citizens currently living in Scotland (and I am mostly referring to non-Scots), what will they do? Especially government workers. Do they have to pack up and move. How is the application for Scottish citizenship going to work?

[SeanF]

It seems the highest turnout in a Scottish poll since universal suffrage is the 81.2% achieved in the 1951 General Election:

http://www.parliament.uk/documents/commons/lib/research/rp2008/rp08-012.pdf

Would be nice to beat that.

As I say, very difficult. In reality, 81% is 90% of all eligible voters, once you exclude the dead, people who've left Scotland, and people registered at different addresses.

[polishgenius]

Say Scotland votes for independence, my questions are how will the transition period look like. All the UK citizens currently living in Scotland (and I am mostly referring to non-Scots), what will they do? Especially government workers. Do they have to pack up and move. How is the application for Scottish citizenship going to work?

The fact that the answer to this isn't clearly set out is one of the reasons (perhaps the main reason) why I don't think the Scots should vote Yes (if the Yes campaign had had a more clear plan of action of what they're actually going to do I'd be a lot more supportive of it than I am, not that my support matters), but I'd be really surprised if there wasn't a freedom of movement/right to work agreement worked out (I don't know where the EU stands on a country in the EU having one with a country not in it, but you can't get into or out of the UK without showing a passport anyway, so you wouldn't have the same concern as if, say, Poland suddenly opened a border with Ukraine). People in government positions that no longer exist would have to move or get new jobs, of course, but moving for work is hardly a situation unique to the political uncoupling of nations.

[mormont]

I would answer yes to the question in bold. But I understand my views are not realistic.

And, well, not very fair either.

Say Scotland votes for independence, my questions are how will the transition period look like. All the UK citizens currently living in Scotland (and I am mostly referring to non-Scots), what will they do?

What do you mean, non-Scots? If they're living in Scotland, they're Scots. They got an equal voice in the referendum and they'll get an equal stake in an independent Scotland. They get Scottish citizenship, no matter where they were born, unless they don't want it.

ETA - as for this not being 'clearly set out':

http://yesscotland.net/answers/who-will-be-eligible-scottish-citizenship-independence-and-future

The current Scottish Government has set out detailed plans for citizenship on independence. British citizens habitually resident in Scotland on independence will be considered Scottish citizens. This will include British citizens who hold dual citizenship with another country. Scottish born British citizens currently living outside of Scotland will also be considered Scottish citizens.

Following independence, other people will be able to apply for Scottish citizenship. For example, citizenship by descent will be available to those who have a parent or grandparent who qualifies for Scottish citizenship. Those who have a demonstrable connection to Scotland and have spent at least ten years living here at some stage, whether as a child or an adult, will also have the opportunity to apply for citizenship.

Procedures will also be put in place to allow certain migrants lawfully resident in Scotland to apply for naturalisation as a Scottish citizen.

[Slurms McKenzie]

I don't know... seems vague to me.. no, no, this shan't possibly do for my unbiased self.

Long live the union!

[polishgenius]

ETA - as for this not being 'clearly set out':

http://yesscotland.net/answers/who-will-be-eligible-scottish-citizenship-independence-and-future

Fair enough. It doesn't much change my opinion considering the rest of the details, but I obviously wasn't paying attention here.

[Corvinus85]

And, well, not very fair either.

What do you mean, non-Scots? If they're living in Scotland, they're Scots. They got an equal voice in the referendum and they'll get an equal stake in an independent Scotland. They get Scottish citizenship, no matter where they were born, unless they don't want it.

ETA - as for this not being 'clearly set out':

http://yesscotland.net/answers/who-will-be-eligible-scottish-citizenship-independence-and-future

Are you saying that any person born and raised in England, Wales, or Northern Ireland who has moved to Scotland is automatically a Scot? They are all UK citizens, sure, but I wouldn't think these people consider themselves Scots. And that is what I was referring to.

[northernwarg]

And, well, not very fair either. What do you mean, non-Scots? If they're living in Scotland, they're Scots. They got an equal voice in the referendum and they'll get an equal stake in an independent Scotland. They get Scottish citizenship, no matter where they were born, unless they don't want it.ETA - as for this not being 'clearly set out':http://yesscotland.net/answers/who-will-be-eligible-scottish-citizenship-independence-and-future

What about by marriage? My husband, dual nationality British/Colombian, married to me, Scottish by birth, is eligible for Scottish citizenship? He's such a wannabe and a Scot Nat politically !

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

SFK,

Are you predicting a "Yes" win?

[mormont]

Are you saying that any person born and raised in England, Wales, or Northern Ireland who has moved to Scotland is automatically a Scot?

That's the position, yes. I honestly don't see how anyone could expect it to be anything else. It makes zero sense to say 'you guys are Scottish enough to vote in the referendum, but not Scottish enough to get citizenship afterwards'.

What about by marriage? My husband, dual nationality British/Colombian, married to me, Scottish by birth, is eligible for Scottish citizenship? He's such a wannabe and a Scot Nat politically !

I'd suppose marriage to a Scottish citizen would enable him to apply, assuming he's not resident in Scotland. It's a 'demonstrable connection', isn't it?

[Slurms McKenzie]

I'd suppose marriage to a Scottish citizen would enable him to apply, assuming he's not resident in Scotland. It's a 'demonstrable connection', isn't it?

Ja, makes sense to me.

Has anyone here ever been to Edinburgh? I've always wanted to go, seems like a pretty place

[Corvinus85]

That's the position, yes. I honestly don't see how anyone could expect it to be anything else. It makes zero sense to say 'you guys are Scottish enough to vote in the referendum, but not Scottish enough to get citizenship afterwards'.

Actually, since you are saying that, and it makes sense, who does get to vote? Any British citizen currently living in Scotland, (meeting all other voting criteria, like age) or just those that have been residents of Scotland for a certain period of time. I really haven't followed this issue closely, so that is why I am asking all these questions now.

[Talleyrand]

I think my plan for tonight is to fall asleep with the news on, the cheers of the winning group will hopefully wake me up.

Though regardless of which way it goes I reckon the losing side will blame anything bad that happens in the next 10 years on the result

[mormont]

Actually, since you are saying that, and it makes sense, who does get to vote?

Anyone on the Electoral Register in a voting district in Scotland, plus anyone resident in any of those areas and currently aged 16 or 17.

[DemiNymph]

Sg seperated from M'sia 50 years ago. It was a relatively peaceful thing with a bit of tears, but then, we had nothing that anybody wanted then other than a good geographical location that serves as an important port. Zero natural resources and a largely undeveloped country with slums and just a developed city centre. Even now, there's no merit to invading us other than for spite, I guess. 4 years after seperation we had a racial riot that was caused in part by our former brethern fanning the flames, but that was just a bit of social unrest on a small scale in the modern sense. (A big deal at that point in time thou.)

If the Scots seperate, how soon do you think war will come? 20 or 30 years? How fast can the Scots build up their military? Assuming the Scots will have no internal conflicts, that is.

[polishgenius]

Has anyone here ever been to Edinburgh? I've always wanted to go, seems like a pretty place

Veeeeerrrrrry pretty.

Though the only time I've been was on a stag do so I wasn't paying that much attention.

[SeanF]

Cameron would not wish to resign if Yes wins.

But, he'd be forced to. Have no doubt about that.

[john]

I don't think the citizenship situation is particularly clear. That me or my kids would be considered scottish seems kind of obvious. I'd want to know about the british element, which, like so much else, can only be guessed at.

Ja, makes sense to me.

Has anyone here ever been to Edinburgh? I've always wanted to go, seems like a pretty place

Too often. Try Glasgow.

[Andriy Czarchenko]

The fact that the answer to this isn't clearly set out is one of the reasons (perhaps the main reason) why I don't think the Scots should vote Yes (if the Yes campaign had had a more clear plan of action of what they're actually going to do I'd be a lot more supportive of it than I am, not that my support matters), but I'd be really surprised if there wasn't a freedom of movement/right to work agreement worked out (I don't know where the EU stands on a country in the EU having one with a country not in it, but you can't get into or out of the UK without showing a passport anyway, so you wouldn't have the same concern as if, say, Poland suddenly opened a border with Ukraine). People in government positions that no longer exist would have to move or get new jobs, of course, but moving for work is hardly a situation unique to the political uncoupling of nations.

There´s no problem with EU on that. Nordic countries have freedom of movement/right to work and Norway isn´t in EU.

[Recovering forum addict]

It's not exactly the same situation though. Norway isn't in the EU but is in Schengen. The UK is in the EU but not in Schengen. I'm not sure what the policy is for EU borders outside Schengen.