On the Lineage of Brown Ben Plumm

[Likely Luke]

Hi there, I'm new to the forums.

Lately I've been interested in the ancestry of Brown Ben Plumm. Tyrion seems to believes Ben is descended from a son of Viserys Plumm. The son probably traveled to Essos at some point in his life. Viserys is probably the child of Ossifer Plumm and Elaena Targaryen. However, Elaena has been said to have had Ossifer's child more than 9 months after his death, suggesting that Viserys (and thus Ben) are not true Plumms at all.

Tyrion thinks that Ben may have "two drops" of dragon blood which probably means that he believes that Viserys's father was instead a Targaryen or at least someone related. Elaena's lover was Alyn Velaryon and they had two bastards, Jeyne and Jon Waters. Interestingly, the name Viserys may hint at a Valyrian father.

Who, then, was the father of Viserys: Ossifer after all, Alyn, or another Targaryen (Aegon IV perhaps?). What do you think?

[Lost Melnibonean]

Egg el quatro seems to be the most likely candidate. If you search a bit you'll find some discussions about it.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

I'm going for Aegon IV, since the Targaryen ancestry of Alyn Velaryon would be rather removed. He isn't off the list of possibilities, but I think he is unlikely.

Another possibility, for which there isn't any textual proof yet, would be Alyns son (Alyn was already old when Elaena was released from the Maiden Vault), if Alyn had been married to a Targaryen woman (Baela or Rhaena).

[Lord Varys]

You mean Rhaena, there, Rhaenys, not Rhaenyra ;-).

Some people have also suggested Bloodraven, although I'm not sure if that would fit with the time line. Ossifer Plumm seems to have been the Elaena's first husband.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

You mean Rhaena, there, Rhaenys, not Rhaenyra ;-).

You are right, that's who I meant. Damn autocorrect! My phone can't keep up with all the Targ names.. :p

[Likely Luke]

Did Elaena have more than one child with Ossifer? If so, it's possible Viserys wasn't the child born after Ossifer's death. She had seven children in total, two of them bastards with Alyn. That leaves 5 children with the other husbands.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

No second Plumm child is ever mentioned. If there was, I doubt that Tyrion would even have mentioned Viserys Plumm..

[Mithras]

I agree that it was Aegon IV. I also think that the Lannisters might have married a descendant of Viserys Plumm. It is also possible that Eleana Targaryen was married to Damon Lannister at king's behest after Ossifer's death.

[Likely Luke]

Then Tyrion would be somewhat closely related to Ben. Why wouldn't he mention that?

[Lord Varys]

Yeah, he would mention it. The whole idea makes not all that much sense.

Especially since Tyrion clearly made the dragon blood = potential dragonrider connection with his claim that Dany's dragons must have liked Brown Ben. If he knew that he himself had about as much dragon blood as Brown Ben, he would possibly also consider himself as a potential dragonrider, and as of yet there is no hint whatsoever that he believes he could claim a dragon.

There are lots of hints that he will do such a thing, but he himself is not consciously aware of them.