LastCitizenOfGhis Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 I mean, why is the arc surrounding he and Theon necessary? The only thing I garnered from it was that the Geneva Convention is rather useful and torture is bad, it, as of yet, doesn't seem to have any major impact on plot.The only affect pages and pages of torture have had on the actual Game is the winning over of Deepwood Motte, outside of that it all seems rather moot. Unless Theon/Ramsey actually turn out to be Azor Ahai, why on earth include this at all? Or perhaps a better question, why does GRRM spend such a long time following their arc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppa Chase Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 They seized Winterfell and burned it down after killing two Starks. They now run winterfell by a false right. They got Jon stabbed. They're the reason for a lot of the terror in the series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastCitizenOfGhis Posted September 19, 2014 Author Share Posted September 19, 2014 Ok, I get why the Bolton's are important, but why spend so many chapters on the relationship between Theon and Ramsey? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Reckoner Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Ramsay is a validation of all the negative stereotypes about bastards, whereas Jon is a refutation of those stereotypes. Ramsay is a living, breathing example of everything that is wrong with Westerosi politics as well, in terms of inheritance, the way bastards are treated. Ramsay is a symptom of a diseased, broken system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Reborn Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Because Theon's redemptive arc is going to be very meaningful to the series. And the only way to get him from his former asshole self to some kind of broken repentant, tragic figure, is to put him through some major suffering. It brings Theon to the point where he is willing to be the sacrifice for the return of House Stark. Leading to his final fate in the opening chapters of Winds of Winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julia Martell Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Ramsey exists because the character of Theon is important to the author and his arc is central to what the author is trying to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nastydream Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Theon's character development Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qhorin Halfhand and Yoren Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 He makes a compelling and scary villain, especially for Theon, psychological torture's effect on people and broken men regaining their identity is very compelling subject and the Reek/Theon chapters are some of the most well written and engrossing chapters of the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BastardlyRock Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 I'm curious, OP, if you've read any of the early chapters from TWOW? I don't want to get too spoilery, but if you read one I'm thinking of in particular it may help you understand the overall significance a little more. If you already have and you're still struggling with it then.... :dunno: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Lou of House Reed Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Why is there any character? Anyways Ramsays one of the best villians in the series, are you not entertained?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Lou of House Reed Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaegal Targaryen Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Theon's character development,GRRM shows us that Ramsay is the definition of the word BASTARD plus he is a hopeless romantic,he makes me vomit some times but other than that he is an average character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tynned Lannistark Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Its actually a pretty important part of the story.It serves several purposes.One is the development of Theon as a character. To transform the cocky annoying Theon to the point where he can be redeemed he has to suffer. And Ramsay exists for that purpose. Second one is to strengthen the emotional resentment to the Bolton ruleAfter the rule of Tywin and his cronies has mostly been destroyed , there is a need for a new evil. The Bolton must appear scary and horrible enough. Third, there is a need for Roose to have his own monster, just like Tywin had Gregor. The cold and cunning villain cannot commit the sadistic and barbaric acts as they often include loss of self control which is out of character for him. So there is a need to separate the Villain into the brain and the muscle. Ramsay is Roose's Gregor. The Theon-Ramsay relationship is used to get us close to Ramsay's twisted nature in order to establish the fearsome reputation he needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cxvb Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 If Theon and Ramsy happened during ASoS, I'd agree that this points to them being relevant to the endgame. Butt GRRM's writing became less focused in the last two books and it is possible that he "merely" included it for the themes and because it was easy to write (the latter inferred backwards from the high quality of those chapters). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis's birthright Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 He is the anti-Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyLittleFinger Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Ramsay basically fucked the North by himself. He's ridiculously important to entire fall of the North. Theon would never have thought to "kill" Bran and Rickon, that was all Ramsay, he even brought the spare clothes and wolf pins and had the idea from the start. He married Lady Hornwood, stole her lands and caused a massive rift in the North since he was legally the Lord of Hornwood, but nobody wanted him to be. He set fire to Winterfell the symbolic power of the North. Now he's the "great unifier" with Fake Arya as Lord of Winterfell. He killed the last of the Cerwyn's, so he made two houses in the North extinct mostly on his own. He's one of the most important characters in the series just for that, let alone all the Theon development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INCBlackbird Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 to the overal plot : the Boltons take over from the starks and they used Theon for thaton an artistic level level: it's a very compelling story to tell with lots of possibilitiesit's also important because it shows the difference between the truth and what people perceive as the truth. in the sense that Theon is the bolton's scapegoat and the Bolton's are very good at fooling everyone that Theon is responsible for it all (sometimes including the fans)furthermore Theon is an important character and his entire arc is about learning to be himself rather then pretending to be someone else and the consequences of trying to be someone else vs being who he really is. Ramsay was ironically the key. in trying to distroy him he enabled Theon to let go of who he was trying to be and learn to care about what is actually important and just be himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robb_Warged Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Theon's arc is an interesting look at an awful fate that came to someone who betrayed his family. The Bolton's are arguably the best 'villains' in the story and very a key piece of the plot It's a damn shame Robb had to die to make so many other characters interesting (Theon, Jon, Stannis, Brienne, etc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowInTheDarkness Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 because god knows the starks/north where already in a whole bunch of trouble with wilding, White walkers, and ironborn invading their lands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppa Chase Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Because every good zombie story needs psychopaths to worry about as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.