Viseris The Begger Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Hear my roar! I started this thread because i think Rose Bolton is way smarter then we taught...When he betrayed Robb at the Red Wedding he had support of Iron Throne(support of Tywan Lannister)....BUT.... i think he knew that he could't win the North just by Lannister-Tyrell alliance simple because he is to smart to believe that...(he knew Sansa right comes before Arya and he knew Sansa was married to Lannister)...he is not stupid enough to connect the dots and figure out that Tywan is just using him to end the rebellion....+ he also knows Bran and Rickon are alive and as he states if the north knew they are alive whole north would rise for them......I think he expected when he returned north that he will be forced to fight Bran and Rickon instead Stannis....which just prove that he expected Great North Conspiracy(GNC) and return of the wolfs..... -SO why did Rose agreed to participate in Red Wedding....why would he sign his death sentence and destroy his own house? Answer lies in his marriage to Fat Walda Fray....Fat Walda Fray is a daughter of Merret Fray and Maria Darry! Out of all Fray out there we got epilogue of a Storm of Swords form Merrat POV (insignificant ninth son of Walder Fray) i don't think that GRRM done that by chance....More interesting thing is also that Rose decided to marry Merrat's daughter who as i said is insignificant..he is 100th in line to inherit The Twins....he could have married some Daughter or granddaughter from Emmon Fray(lord of the Riverrun)and Gina Lannister....or he could have married sister or a daughter of Ryman Fray next Lord of the twins or any other fray girl whit any connection whit other noble families...but he didn't........So he married Fat Walda just for connection whit fray families...which is stupid considering when Old Walder dies and is inherited by his great grandson who has ...well nothing whit Fat Walda just a name....and we know Blood connections are very important....We also know that Fat Walda is FAT...therefor he did not marry her because of her looks....so Why would Rose Bolton marry Merret's daughter...???? -Simple answer is that he didn't care about Merret or any connection to the house Fray...he wanted marriage whit daughter of last living member of house Darry...Maria Darry nice of William Darry....I think Rose Bolton is well aware of Danaerys and her dragons when he accepts his role in RW...and from that moment he is just using Tywan Lannister and his "loyalty" to the IT later(not other way around) just to by himself time until Danaerys arrives in Westeros.....That's why he married William Darry's nice...and expecting a son from Fat Walda....a son who he will name William....heir to the Dreadfort and next overlord of the north....We know that William was a good and loyal man to house Targaryan.....William was the closest thing to a father Dany ever had.... So when Dany does arrive what do you think whom will she grant lordship over the North...some chiled of the Usurper's dog or to William Bolton nephew of William Darry..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppa Chase Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 The book says he married her because Walder offered him his brides weight in silver as dowry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viseris The Begger Posted September 19, 2014 Author Share Posted September 19, 2014 The book says he married her because Walder offered him his brides weight in silver as dowry. yea he married he because he could get 30 kg of silver more then he could from some more Beautiful......that's what 100 golden dragons....maybe 1000.....i don't think Rose is interesting in gold or siver....he is interesting in land..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Hendrix of Rock Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Bolton sucking up to Deanarys now that is something i hope never happens. It just might work.Oh and: 'Frey' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppa Chase Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 yea he married he because he could get 30 kg of silver more then he could from some more Beautiful......that's what 100 golden dragons....maybe 1000.....i don't think Rose is interesting in gold or siver....he is interesting in land.....I didn't say I believed it. I just feel like it should have been mentioned and reasoned why not in this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Umber Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 I can't get past "Rose Bolton" to consider any of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viseris The Begger Posted September 19, 2014 Author Share Posted September 19, 2014 I can't get past "Rose Bolton" to consider any of this. It is a hard truth but it is very much possible..... I didn't say I believed it. I just feel like it should have been mentioned and reasoned why not in this. I just taught it's obvious that Bolton does not care about gold or silver but land Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Giving your child the first name of someone who Dany loved, won't help you survive yourself. Roose fought against Aerys and Rhaegar, after all, and that cannot be undone by Roose naming his child Willem.In addition, Dany should realise (and hopefully she will, or perhaps she already does) that a crime of the father is not a crime of the child. That Ned fought against Rhaegar, doesn't have anything to do with Rickon.After all, Dany was slowly starting to accept that not everything in the war was as black and white as she originally made it sound to have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viseris The Begger Posted September 19, 2014 Author Share Posted September 19, 2014 Giving your child the first name of someone who Dany loved, won't help you survive yourself. Roose fought against Aerys and Rhaegar, after all, and that cannot be undone by Roose naming his child Willem.In addition, Dany should realise (and hopefully she will, or perhaps she already does) that a crime of the father is not a crime of the child. That Ned fought against Rhaegar, doesn't have anything to do with Rickon.After all, Dany was slowly starting to accept that not everything in the war was as black and white as she originally made it sound to have been.-Yes Rose did fought her father...so did Mormont and she had no problems him advising her until she found out about him spying on her and sending information to the usurper.......+Ned stayed hand of the Usurper even when Robert sent knifes to kill Dany's unborn child.....I don't think she will look fondly towards Rickon for this..... -Dany is Targaryan.....she has no need to realise anything as my favorite sentence in the books are "As their dragons Targaryans answer to nether gods nor man"-After all in the end of her last aDwD chapter she finally accepted her house words "FIRE AND BLOOD" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Martin Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 This is a very interesting thought... The real heir to Darry should have been Little Walder, believe it or not. Mariya Darry/Frey is the eldest living Darry by blood, she married Merrit Frey who dies in the epilogue of ASOS. Their children were: Gatehouse Ami, Fat Walda, Marissa Frey and Little Walder. Since Little Walder was the first son of the Lady of Darry, he should have stood to inherit. So the Lannister's screwed the Freys by giving Darry to Lancel. When Lancel breaks his marriage pact with Ami, he foresakes his claims on Darry. I wouldn't be shocked if Walder Frey tried to claim that Little Walder would have been the proper heir... but now we all know he's dead.... So Ami is the Lady of Darry and Fat Walda is her heir.... so any sons by her and Roose have claims to both the Dreadfort and Darry while Ramsay is the lead claimant for Winterfell... What a tangled web! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 -Yes Rose did fought her father...so did Mormont and she had no problems him advising her until she found out about him spying on her and sending information to the usurper....... +Ned stayed hand of the Usurper even when Robert sent knifes to kill Dany's unborn child.....I don't think she will look fondly towards Rickon for this..... -Dany is Targaryan.....she has no need to realise anything as my favorite sentence in the books are "As their dragons Targaryans answer to nether gods nor man" -After all in the end of her last aDwD chapter she finally accepted her house words "FIRE AND BLOOD" There are differences in the situation. Where Jorah was ordered to fight (he was not the head of his house back then, and thus not the one to make such decisions), Roose was, and he choose to support the rebelling side. Roose told Robert to kill Barristan, Dany's most trusted advisor currently.. The chances of Dany joining forces with Roose are slim. And I ask again, why would Dany blame a 5 year old child for what his father did? "Dany is Targaryan.....she has no need to realise anything" Excuse me? "She has no need to realise anything"? She wants to rule, and thus she has to learn. Killing people won't help getting others to bend the knee. Saying that Dany doesn't have to realise anything, because she is a Targaryen, is like stating "She's better that everyone, she can do whatever she wants". As we have seen with Aerys, a King (or Queen, in this case) cannot do whatever he/she wants. Yes, Dany accepts who she is at the end of Dance. "Fire and Blood". She finally is starting to get back to her original goal: the plan to conquer Westeros. At the same time, though, she is starting to accept that Aerys wasn't all good, there were also bad things about him, and she wants to learn about it all. Dany won't look with favor to one person, and with hatred to another, just because of how their fathers have named them. She will look at what the house has done to her family, and what they are willing to do for her now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viseris The Begger Posted September 19, 2014 Author Share Posted September 19, 2014 This is a very interesting thought... The real heir to Darry should have been Little Walder, believe it or not. Mariya Darry/Frey is the eldest living Darry by blood, she married Merrit Frey who dies in the epilogue of ASOS. Their children were: Gatehouse Ami, Fat Walda, Marissa Frey and Little Walder. Since Little Walder was the first son of the Lady of Darry, he should have stood to inherit. So the Lannister's screwed the Freys by giving Darry to Lancel. When Lancel breaks his marriage pact with Ami, he foresakes his claims on Darry. I wouldn't be shocked if Walder Frey tried to claim that Little Walder would have been the proper heir... but now we all know he's dead.... So Ami is the Lady of Darry and Fat Walda is her heir.... so any sons by her and Roose have claims to both the Dreadfort and Darry while Ramsay is the lead claimant for Winterfell... What a tangled web! I'm sorry i must have missed this...how do we know little walder is dead.....is this "little walder" that Ramsy killed in Winterfall or some1 else...because if i remmember correctly big walder was the one who ended up dead or i may be wrong...t? here are so mach walder that it is confusing... There are differences in the situation. Where Jorah was ordered to fight (he was not the head of his house back then, and thus not the one to make such decisions), Roose was, and he choose to support the rebelling side. Roose told Robert to kill Barristan, Dany's most trusted advisor currently.. The chances of Dany joining forces with Roose are slim. And I ask again, why would Dany blame a 5 year old child for what his father did? "Dany is Targaryan.....she has no need to realise anything" Excuse me? "She has no need to realise anything"? She wants to rule, and thus she has to learn. Killing people won't help getting others to bend the knee. Saying that Dany doesn't have to realise anything, because she is a Targaryen, is like stating "She's better that everyone, she can do whatever she wants". As we have seen with Aerys, a King (or Queen, in this case) cannot do whatever he/she wants. Yes, Dany accepts who she is at the end of Dance. "Fire and Blood". She finally is starting to get back to her original goal: the plan to conquer Westeros. At the same time, though, she is starting to accept that Aerys wasn't all good, there were also bad things about him, and she wants to learn about it all. Dany won't look with favor to one person, and with hatred to another, just because of how their fathers have named them. She will look at what the house has done to her family, and what they are willing to do for her now. -She wouldn't blame Rickon.....she doesn't need to kill him.....she can exile him like she and her brother were......You mentioned that Jorah was not head of the house during the rebellion......I'm interested do you know when his father joined the Night's Watch are there any dates about that....i'm very curious about this... -O.o i see how that must sound ...sorry i will chose my words more carefully next time...what i meant is it's much easier if you have dragons......Meagor was 1000times more cruel than Dany ever will...he killed who ever he wanted and he feared no gods nor man.....Aegon I gave no shit by destroying houses like Hoara,Gardner,Durandon........And if Visenya decided she could make Meraxis eat young Ronald Aryn instead of taking him for a ride and by this destroy house Arryn as well....As Tyrion mentioned in the books His ancestor that fought on the field of fire if he died that would mean end of his line exactly just what happened whit the death of Garth Gardner....So why are the Starks any different then any other of those houses.....My point is by "Dany doesn't need to realise"...is that if she want's to put William Bolton as an Overlord she CAN! -i honestly hope for your third sentence because i want Dany to rule Westeros....i just think that she will answer justice whit justice..... -For you're last sentence I couldn't said any better....She will look what Boltons and Starks have done to her family and what Boltons and Starks are willing to do for her now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salafi Stannis Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 I can't get past "Rose Bolton" to consider any of this. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 I'm sorry i must have missed this...how do we know little walder is dead.....is this "little walder" that Ramsy killed in Winterfall or some1 else...because if i remmember correctly big walder was the one who ended up dead or i may be wrong...t? here are so mach walder that it is confusing... Little Walders body is found at Winterfell, where he was one of those who were killed by the mysterious murderer.. -She wouldn't blame Rickon.....she doesn't need to kill him.....she can exile him like she and her brother were......You mentioned that Jorah was not head of the house during the rebellion......I'm interested do you know when his father joined the Night's Watch are there any dates about that....i'm very curious about this... Can't currently find the quote on Jeor fighting in the Rebellion. IIRC, it was Jorah who mentioned that his father had taken the black after the fighting.. Jeor was elected Lord Commander in 288AC, when Robert had been king for 5 years. That's stated in the app :) -O.o i see how that must sound ...sorry i will chose my words more carefully next time...what i meant is it's much easier if you have dragons......Meagor was 1000times more cruel than Dany ever will...he killed who ever he wanted and he feared no gods nor man.....Aegon I gave no shit by destroying houses like Hoara,Gardner,Durandon........And if Visenya decided she could make Meraxis eat young Ronald Aryn instead of taking him for a ride and by this destroy house Arryn as well....As Tyrion mentioned in the books His ancestor that fought on the field of fire if he died that would mean end of his line exactly just what happened whit the death of Garth Gardner....So why are the Starks any different then any other of those houses.....My point is by "Dany doesn't need to realise"...is that if she want's to put William Bolton as an Overlord she CAN! Then you meant it differently than it came across :) Sure, when you have dragons, it is more difficult for people to oppose you. Though exiling Rickon won't win Dany the north, for example. Getting rid of the Boltons (at least Roose and Ramsay), will win her the entire region in one go. She could even keep Roose's kid as a hostage, taking away all Bolton lands from the family. If Dany wants to do something, and she has enough power to get it done, she can do it, sure. But look at Aegon I. The Riverlands were ruled by a cruel man, who refused to yield, so Aegon killed him and his family, and placed the rule of the Riverlands in the hands of a house more suitable. House Gardner went to war agaist Aegon, and in such a case, you can indeed suffer the fate of death. And technically, House Durrendon wasn't killed. The line continues, in blood, though not in name :) And that's the thing. The entire north hates house Bolton. Installing a Bolton as ruler of the north will lead to either a reign where the north will remain a difficulty, or it will lead to a rebellion. You can keep the entire kingdom calm by installing Rickon in Winterfell again. Dany could perhaps choose to take some of the power from the Lord of Winterfell, and install another house as overlord. But installing a Bolton, I suspect, would create more problems than it would do any good. Small detail: Visenya rode Vhagar, Rhaenys rode Meraxes :) But that doesn't change your point ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 This. His first son by Walda is going to be Michael (or Michel or Maickel, however GRRM wants to spin it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oursisthefury69 Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 Who is William Bolton? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanos Targaryen Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 As with all of the Freys hopefully the Boltons are thoroughly exterminated by the end of the series. Serve 'em all right if Roose, Ramsey, and even Fat Walda all end up as wights. :devil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Second To Last Dragon Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 pirhaps yew shud lern speleng. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Ravens Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 Who is William Bolton? He is the future son of Rose Bolton. Pay attention. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varunpats18 Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 Well, but roose's plan might not work since the eldest daughter of mariya darry and merret Frey is amerei Frey who is married to lancel lannister. Now, lancel wants to renounce his marriage but castle darry still by right belongs to amerei Frey as she is the eldest daughter. Basically, whoever marries amerei gets to be lord of darry. This makes things quite interesting. Who do u think will marry amerei and be lord of darry after lancel renounces the marriage and lordship (yes, lancel wants to renounce his lordship over darry too. He said that to jaime in AFFC.) Jon snow maybe will marry amerei? (If he doesn't marry daenerys). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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