Why do people associate The North with Honour?

[Fat Mac]

Fighting for power seems less important when you have to worry about you and yours survival.

I would agree with this before DwD. Manderly Bolton Dustin and the Karstarks seem more power hungry than concerned with survival.

[Tywin Manderly]

I would agree with this before DwD. Manderly Bolton Dustin and the Karstarks seem more power hungry than concerned with survival.

That is because there is a lack of an Alpha Leader to keep the pack in line.

[Twenty of House Goodmen]

There is no denying that the Northen bannermen are more loyal to their liege lords than any of the other regions(with the possible exception of the Vale), but that does not mean that northerners are more honorable. As already mentioned, Boltons, Greystarks, Karstarks, Wyman, Umbers, and other individual characters from the North aren't very honorable.

I agree with those saying that there isn't any particular region that's inherently more honorable than the others.

[Dimples]

There is no denying that the Northen bannermen are more loyal to their liege lords than any of the other regions(with the possible exception of the Vale),

And the Westerlands.

As an aside, when I first saw this thread I thought the title was "Why do people associate The North with Hodor?"

[The Drunkard]

That is because there is a lack of an Alpha Leader to keep the pack in line.

If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine feudal reward, then brother, that person is a piece of shit.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

You are right but so what? Honour is just an excuse when someone doesn't have the guts and fails to do what he needs to do for the Greater Good.

[House Hendrix of Rock]

I don't think any one Kingdom has a monopoly on honor, but I think that if any did it's probably the High as Honor Arryns. That's where Ned picked it up, I'm sure.

Agreed

[SacredOrderOfGreenMen]

The Ned being raised in the Vale.

The Kings of Winter of old, and soon enough Bran (The Builder 2.0), were a very very different bunch. A kingdom the size of the other six and with half as much wealth wasn't ruled by saying "please with sugar on top"

[ShadowCat Rivers]

There is no point to associate honour with an entire region (not even on family level). It's an individual quality.

Honourable does not mean good and gentle. It's more like keeping to one's word. A person can be honourable and simultaneously very hard and harsh.

IMO, the idea that Ned is honourable because of his Arryn education is a misconception and contradicted by the book facts.

Ned's honour has nothing to do with Arryn upbringing. Just compare Ned's and Jon Arryn's reactions to the aftermath of the sack of KL:

Jon Arryn prioritized pragmatic matters of reality to what honour requires, in contrast to Ned's consistent behaviour.

It was Jon Arryns suggestion (and insistence) that Robert marries Cersei so that Tywin Lannister is tied to the new regime, thus practically rewarding his (very specific and not so honourable) conduct during the rebellion. Compare this to Ned's urge that justice must be done...

Later on, Jon Arryn went to Dorne to settle things there. No talk of jutice... He only cared to make sure of Dorne's inaction with the compromise that Robert would not set foot there. Not even secondary culprits as scapegoats like Lorch and/or the Mountain were punished. Not so honourable conduct from Jon Arryn's part, only a pragmatic attitude to strengthen the new regime.

On the contrary, Ned Stark has acted repeatedly chosing the path of honour instead of the pragmatic, the price being puting himself and his family in danger and paying for it. Not so Jon Arryn, I say.

[Ser Greg of House House]

Though I agree it's absurd to believe all northerners are honourable or that they have a monopoly over it... Or that they're naturally better than other people...

The only thing I can see is that the North seems to be more disconnected from the other kingdoms, so they could use some kind of "nationalism" to stay united. It's obviously not perfect, Boltons prove it, but if you believe in GNC there are people willing to die to restore the Starks. There's some kind of honour in that.

Anyway, this trait is even greater in Dorne, IMO. Also the Ironborn, though I'm not sure since they're pirates... Not that it's absent elsewhere.

[The Wolves]

Manderly is not dishonorable by engaging in cannibalism.

[new djinn]

There is no denying that the Northen bannermen are more loyal to their liege lords than any of the other regions(with the possible exception of the Vale), but that does not mean that northerners are more honorable. As already mentioned, Boltons, Greystarks, Karstarks, Wyman, Umbers, and other individual characters from the North aren't very honorable.

I agree with those saying that there isn't any particular region that's inherently more honorable than the others.

I deny it. Re-read Bran chapters and you will see them overflowing with political maneurvering from the Northern Lords: Karstark, Ceirwyn try to get matches with the Starks, Bolton and Umber pressure for concessions, Manderly volunteers to take over the North finances, Dustin witholds support, all this while their liege sit on a dungeon at KL.

Point out behaviour from Westermen, Dornish, Riverlords, Valesmen?

[Fat Mac]

Manderly is not dishonorable by engaging in cannibalism.

Cannibalism for any other reason than survival is a vile and disgusting act.

[Dimples]

Cannibalism for any other reason than survival is a vile and disgusting act.

Fixed that for you.

[Tolsimir]

Stark bias, like others have said.

Manderly is not dishonorable by engaging in cannibalism.

Username: The Wolves

Hmmm....

[Fat Mac]

Fixed that for you.

Yeah, I guess you're right. I was trying to put across that I think it's ok in extreme scenarios, but it doesn't mean it's not disgusting.

[Stannis's Lawyer]

A lot of folks at Winterfell seem to value honor. Ser Cassel. Most of the household guard.

Additionally, a lot of the lords seem to value honor. The Greatjon, for instance. The mountain clans. Howland Reed.

The Boltons are the only solid example of treacherous folks. The Manderlies could be perceived as dishonorable, but I would personally contest such a characterization.

There is a logical explanation for this: when you're in a very cold environment, you're much more dependent on your immediate clansmen (the lone wolf dies...)--therefore a code of conduct, well upheld, is more critical for individual survival than it is in a more temperate environment.

Manderly fed people to their family members. Umbers, Skagosi, and mountain clans are rapists. Rickard Karstark killed prisoners. Lady Barbrey was disloyal.

Your last paragraph just doesn't make sense.

[Dimples]

I was trying to put across that I think it's ok in extreme scenarios, but it doesn't mean it's not disgusting.

Agreed.

[Stannis's Lawyer]

I don't think we can just say it is Ned.Just look at the Mountain clans or Mormonts(exclude Jorah) or Howland or Manderlys(sort of).If we go back look how Brandon Ice eyes freed the slaves and destroyed the slavers same goes for pirates of Sisters.Look at Torrhen Stark he had a good plan to kill the dragons but he ddn't want to make a bargain on his peoples lifes.Rather then live a life of meaningless rich playboy Starks willingly take the black.So we can't just say it is Ned ofcourse there were bad ones but non of them were as bad as Roose or Ramsay or Tywin also Starks have been defending the realm against the wildlings for centuries.

And look at the Ramsay or Roose or the rapist Umbers or Lady Barbrey or the cannibalistic Skagosi.

[The Wolves]

Cannibalism for any other reason than survival is a vile and disgusting act.

It is gross but his son and men were attacked and murdered under a false pretense of security and protection by a law that's universal.

Anything that Manderly or anyone else does against the Freys is not dishonorable in my eyes they have a right to their vengeance no matter how disturbing it is.