Who Would Win? : Robert's 7 Against The Rainbow Guard

[MyLittleFinger]

We do a lot of these topics on the site, I notice mostly it's about how Aerys' 7 would murder everybody etc.

How about a different competition?

Lord Commander Ser Barristan Selmy

Ser Jaime Lannister

Ser Mandon Moore

Ser Arys Oakheart

Ser Meryn Trant

Ser Preston Greenfield

Ser Boros Blount

vs

Lord Commander Ser Loras Tyrell

Brienne Tarth "The Blue"

Lord Bryce Caron "The Orange"

Ser Robar Royce "The Red"

Ser Guyard Morrigen "The Green"

Ser Emmon Cuy "The Yellow"

Ser Parmen Crane "The Purple"

I tried my best to list them in terms of their apparent skill. Robert's looks ridiculously top heavy especially with that sack of lard Blount on the team. Renly's has more talented guys (we don't really know how good Cuy or Crane are, but considering the way Brienne beat Cuy while unarmoured probably not great). That said, Robert's does have the two best fighters on the list with Barry and Jaime. Moore and Oakheart seem like above average fighters as well. No idea on Greenfield other than he's short for a knight.

Who wins?

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Loras was able to kill, what, two of the Rainbow Guard by himself. And as you said, Brienne was able to beat Cuy.

I'd give it to Robert's side, with Selmy, a healthy Jaime and Moore (who's supposed to be pretty decent, just a dead-eyed fish) at the top of the pile. Even with Blount dragging them down.

[l2 0 5 5]

I was always under the impression that the RG were pretty untested. Promising young knights and Lord(s), but untested on the battlefield.

For that reason I'll go with Robert's KG.

My opinion would most likely be different if Renly's Guard would have lasted longer into the war, but Royce and Cuy died quickly. Morrigen died to Garlan Tyrell so no shame there. And Caron died in single combat to Philip Foote who has little repute before this deed.

[Ser Greg of House House]

Loras was able to kill, what, two of the Rainbow Guard by himself. And as you said, Brienne was able to beat Cuy.

I'd give it to Robert's side, with Selmy, a healthy Jaime and Moore (who's supposed to be pretty decent, just a dead-eyed fish) at the top of the pile. Even with Blount dragging them down.

Well, we don't know how it really happened, if they were fighting back or not etc. Anyway I guess GRRM went a little overboard with that. We get it, Loras was mad. Really mad. But still...

Anyway, I guess I agree with you. We see how Jaime is much, much better than Brienne. Fighting her tired and handcuffed on both arms and legs (that was it, right?).

Brienne apparently wasn't the worst of them. So Jaime and Selmy would probably give Bob's KG an edge.

[kimim]

I'll give it to the KG because of experience and because of Selmy. Loras is young, violent, a loose cannon. Jaime is a better fighter than Brienne. Catelyn describes the rest of RG as "knights of summer," untried, playing at war.

[Tyrus Martell]

Hyle Hunt tells Brienne in AFFC that she probably could have taken Emmon Cuy on a good day, but that Robar Royce was way too good of a swordsman for her. As pointed out above, Brienne beat Cuy easily, unarmoured, and he was also easily killed by Loras Tyrell in a 2-to-1 fight. Royce did seem to be regarded as a good warrior in ACOK as well though, and he did beat Lothor Brune at the Tourney of the Hand - only to also be beaten by Loras himself, and then killed.

Bryce Caron seemed like an overly bold lord's son who probably didn't consider the common nobody Phillip Foote as a dangerous enemy.

Perhaps Guyard Morrigen was a better fighter due to his death at the hands of Garlan Tyrell, though he easily could have been overrated as well.

Parmen Crane we know nothing about, other than he was the guard of Renly's tent on the night of his death and that unlike Emmon Cuy and Robar Royce (the latter who was off-duty at the time), he was magically nowhere to be seen when the chaos began - my personal theory is he did a runner and he was a coward. He also seemed pretty quick to defect to Stannis and also pretty quick to surrender to Loras Tyrell at Bitterbridge without a fight (sound like Boros Blount, anyone?), and he's now languishing in a prison at Highgarden - rightly so.

Brienne of Tarth and Loras Tyrell are the true warriors of the Rainbow Guard, and I could envision them taking on and matching Mandon Moore, Arys Oakheart and Preston Greenfield. If the others of the Rainbow Guard were alive, perhaps Robar Royce could have been the deadly third and deciding factor in also putting down Meryn Trant and the weaker Boros Blount with ease.

As seen and heard time and time again, though, Barristan Selmy and Jaime Lannister (with hand) would tip the favour to Robert's KG, IMO.

[MyLittleFinger]

Wow I had forgotten Crane was on the tent door with Cuy. Where the hell did he scamper off to? Loras?

Nice find Tyrus

[Tyrus Martell]

Wow I had forgotten Crane was on the tent door with Cuy. Where the hell did he scamper off to? Loras?

Nice find Tyrus

Thanks, I'm crazy when it comes to noticing little details of minor characters.

Picked it up on my re-read and put it on the Wiki entry. I found it interesting G.R.R.M. bothered to note that Crane is the guard on the door with Cuy, yet it's Cuy and Royce who enter the tent. Crane is conveniently missing from the regicide which he, as one of the two guards to the tent, technically failed to prevent.

In ASOS, when Loras Tyrell later tells Jaime about the night of Renly's death and what happened before he slaughtered Cuy and Royce upon seeing Renly's corpse, he notes the three of them (Crane, Cuy and Royce) as present in the tent at the time, and even makes a point that he remembers Crane was guarding the tent with Cuy.

Loras: "She had sworn to protect them. Ser Emmon Cuy, Ser Robar Royce, Ser Parmen, they'd sworn as well."

"We... we had prayed together that night. I left him with her. Ser Parmen and Ser Emmon were guarding the tent, and Ser Robar was there as well."

He then confirms again Crane was there when he confronted his fellow Rainbow Guard.

Loras: "When I saw him all bloody, with her fled and the three of them unharmed... if she's innocent, then Robar and Emmon..."

For whatever reason, though, he only killed Cuy and Royce - impressive in its own right, if we believe Royce's swordsmanship.

I'm guessing Crane returned to the tent once Catelyn and Brienne fled, but then did a second runner after Loras cut down Cuy and Royce in front of him to get to safety under Stannis - though we know Loras eventually caught up to him at Bitterbridge and imprisoned him under Highgarden with Erren Florent.

[BitsOfBrains]

Are you talking like battle royale style or like pairings?

Loras could take Jamie.

I think Selmy would kill Brienne.

I would say the rest are toss ups except Blount is sure to lose to any of them.

How did Blount get in there anyway?

[MyLittleFinger]

My guess is Blount was one of the few Crownlanders who decided to shack up with Robert during the rebellion. Most of the others were against him and guys like Thorne and Rykker got the Wall for fighting to the bitter end.

Greenfield - Westerlands

Moore - Vale

Trant - Stormlands

Oakheart - Reach

Seems Arryn wanted a little flavour from each place to appease them and make the realm feel more together. Obviously the North doesn't have many knights, especially after some of the more notable died at the Tower of Joy and Dorne was such a nest of snakes after that they dared not give one a position like that.

[Tyrus Martell]

My guess is Blount was one of the few Crownlanders who decided to shack up with Robert during the rebellion. Most of the others were against him and guys like Thorne and Rykker got the Wall for fighting to the bitter end.

Greenfield - Westerlands

Moore - Vale

Trant - Stormlands

Oakheart - Reach

Seems Arryn wanted a little flavour from each place to appease them and make the realm feel more together. Obviously the North doesn't have many knights, especially after some of the more notable died at the Tower of Joy and Dorne was such a nest of snakes after that they dared not give one a position like that.

Arys Oakheart joined the Kingsguard in 290AL (he told Arianne it had been 10 years since he touched a woman in AFFC, set in 300AL). Some think he replaced another unknown member and was rewarded for service in the Greyjoy Rebellion in the year prior, though there's no textual evidence to suggest.

Moore is stated to have been brought from the Vale by Jon Arryn specifically. Trant and Blount are unknowns. Greenfield is a Westerman and could have been Cersei's choice over Richard Horpe.

[PrinceHenryris]

Brienne and Robar might have acquitted themselves well. After that, it's a slaughter.

I'd bet that in a fair fight, Barristan and Jaime could have wiped out the Rainbow Guard.

[Pod The Impaler]

In the end this probably comes down to Barristan, Jaime, and Mandon Moore versus Loras and Brienne.

So Robert's gang wins.

Loras was able to kill, what, two of the Rainbow Guard by himself.

He was, but he went berserk and they were certainly not trying to kill him.

[Hardstone]

Guyard was chosen to lead Stannis' vanguard at the Blackwater. Does anyone think that could put him above Bryce and Parmen in terms of prowess? Bryce Caron was actually a lord at the time but he didn't get the honour of leading and Parmen was chosen to get more troops, maybe he was the charming member of the Rainbows?

Also, Parmen went to take a leak and Robar stood in briefly just when shit went down!

[Archmaester Drew]

Robert's Kingsguard would slay Renly's Rainbow Guard. Blount and Trant would probably die in the exchange, but they needed to be replaced anyways... ;)

[Twenty of House Goodmen]

Guyard was chosen to lead Stannis' vanguard at the Blackwater. Does anyone think that could put him above Bryce and Parmen in terms of prowess? Bryce Caron was actually a lord at the time but he didn't get the honour of leading and Parmen was chosen to get more troops, maybe he was the charming member of the Rainbows?

Also, Parmen went to take a leak and Robar stood in briefly just when shit went down!

I'd put Guyard below Robar but above Bryce, but Bryce was respected amongst the Stormlords, so his reputation couldn't have been completely unwarrented. We also don't know what exactly went down when Guyard and Bryce were slain by Garlan and Philip. There could've been several factors that lead to their deaths, especially since they died when of the momentum of the battle went completely against their favor.

I did in terms of skill for the RG, it's goes:

Loras>=Brienne>Robar>Guyard>Bryce>Emmon. Parmen is difficult place.

Also, I think it's a lot more closer than people think. Renly's RG has two elite warriors and two great warriors while Robert's KG has two elite warriors and one great warrior. Could go either way, but I give Robert's KG the edge due to experience.

[new djinn]

Well, Phillip Foote lost a arm in the Blackwater so it must have been dificult. Robar was trying to explain the shadow thing when he died. But yeah, Jaime+Barristan+Moore would have the advantage.

[Adeimantus]

I did in terms of skill for the RG, it's goes:

Loras>=Brienne>Robar>Guyard>Bryce>Emmon. Parmen is difficult place.

Why would Loras be above Brienne? Did Brienne's defeat of Loras only happen in the show? Now I can't remember.

And someone else mentioned Loras taking (a presumably healthy) Jaime. If we assume the transitive property applies to sword-fighting, Jaime > Brienne > Loras. Also, when Jaime is back in KL as Lord-Commander, his interactions with Loras seem to suggest that Loras is like a young Jaime. It stands to reason that a seasoned Jaime would be better than his younger self.

[Twenty of House Goodmen]

Why would Loras be above Brienne? Did Brienne's defeat of Loras only happen in the show? Now I can't remember.

She did, but in order to do so she resorted into using a risky move that required using her superior strength. Prior to the tackle, Loras was overwhelming her with axe blows. I take it that Loras is slightly ahead of her in terms of skill but outmatched by her strength.

[Adeimantus]

She did, but in order to do so she resorted into using a risky move that required using her superior strength. Prior to the tackle, Loras was overwhelming her with axe blows. I take it that Loras is slightly ahead of her in terms of skill but outmatched by her strength.

Ok, thanks for the clarification. Re-reading the books is on my short list, so I can remember this stuff. Just working through the novellas first.

I still think Jaime > Loras, though, based off what I said in the original post.