Seaworth'sShipmate Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 I have been thinking about the moral orientation of the Baratheon brothers. I would have to say, as mean, cold and prickly as he is, Stannis is the most moral and "good" of his three brothers, especially Robert 1. I like Robert, and he seems like a fun guy with a good heart. But he has caused a lot of damage to a lot of people, and seemingly does not care. Him having all of those bastards, condemned his children and lovers to a life of neglect and poverty. Stannis, in a funny way shows far more kindness to vulnerable people than Robert. -He spent a lot of time trying to nurse a hawk back to health, when Robert laughed at him and told him to just get an eagle. Out of the three brothers, Stannis was the only one to give Patchface, a crazy jester a home at Dragonstone, since neither of his brothers wanted him. Robert on the other hand, just seems to use people up and throw them away. -Robert also hits and verbally abuses his wife Cersei. Though Stannis has a wife just as unpleasant there is no evidence of him ever striking her in anger. Since he is less of a drunk and lecher, maybe Cersei wouldn't have hated him quite so much if she married him? Still.. Im sure Stannis' integrity would have bothered her.. -Unlike Stannis, Robert is completely irresponsible with most things, with little to no sense of duty. He makes little effort to actually due any work, either as king, or as a parent. He pretty much allowed Joffrey to become what he was. He just has done/ not done a lot of things that I can't see Stannis doing. I can't see Stannis allowing Lady to be killed if she did not kill anyone, and I can't imagine Stannis allowing the realm to go bankrupt, and put his pleasure before his responsibilities the way his brother does. In ADWD, someone was comparing how Robert would have taken Winterfell compared to how Stannis would. Im pretty sure though, that if Robert were in Stannis' position, he would have long ago given up, and bent the knee if it looked like he could do so without dying. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 I would have to say, as mean, cold and prickly as he is, Stannis is the most moral and "good" of his three brothers, especially Robert\ Yeah, remember all the times that Robert and Renly considered burning their nephew alive for power alongside various other burnings. It might be a more fair comparison if you listed all of Stannis's vices also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard of the Rainking Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 If Robert was in Stannis shoes and the Lannisters had killed Ned, Robert would never stop fighting until the Lannisters were wiped out/exiled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaworth'sShipmate Posted September 22, 2014 Author Share Posted September 22, 2014 Stannis only burnt people for the sake of the greater good. Its not as if he relished in killing them. At least he cared, while king Robert just say around and got fat and ogled women Renly is just a younger, gayer version of his older brother imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaworth'sShipmate Posted September 22, 2014 Author Share Posted September 22, 2014 If Robert was in Stannis shoes and the Lannisters had killed Ned Robert would never stop fighting until the Lannisters were wiped out/exiled. Perhaps for the first few weeks. But if it looked like he wasn't going to win, and fighting would get in the way of his drinking and whoring, he would have tried to reach an accord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyBanana Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 It depends on whether you see aGoT Robert as a broken man or just someone who should never have taken the crown and stayed a warrior. But if there is one thing he still would've been competent at, it's war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 Stannis only burnt people for the sake of the greater good. Its not as if he relished in killing them. At least he cared, while king Robert just say around and got fat and ogled women Renly is just a younger, gayer version of his older brother imo You might do well to re-read the Catelyn chapters from ACoK before Renly dies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyBanana Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 Perhaps for the first few weeks. But if it looked like he wasn't going to win, and fighting would get in the way of his drinking and whoring, he would have tried to reach an accord. He did that during the rebellion, too. Didn't stop him from winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 Stannis only burnt people for the sake of the greater good. Its not as if he relished in killing them. At least he cared, while king Robert just say around and got fat and ogled women Renly is just a younger, gayer version of his older brother imo Stannis's desire for power isn't the greater good, moreover before the choir of "but they are criminals!" it is still inhumane to burn criminals alive. Not really, he is directly mentioned to have only indulged in moderation. Also lets look at your criticisms of Robert and how they apply to Renly: Renly has no bastards There is no evidence that Renly just uses people and then leaves them. Renly never abused either his wife Margaery or his lover Loras. Again no evidence that Renly is completely irresponsible with no sense of duty Thus, none of your criticisms of Robert really apply to Renly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaworth'sShipmate Posted September 22, 2014 Author Share Posted September 22, 2014 Renly was just a silly fashionista.. I don't think he had much of a plan, or was really as serious person at all. He should just go on a shopping/makeover trip with Loras rather than rule the kingdoms! Besides, he probably would have thought it was gross to produce an heir, and the 7 kingdoms would have been screwed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard of the Rainking Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 Perhaps for the first few weeks. But if it looked like he wasn't going to win, and fighting would get in the way of his drinking and whoring, he would have tried to reach an accord. If the man can still be mad at the Targaryens 14 years after the rebellion he can sure as hell be mad at the Lannisters after 2 years at war with them. Robert is pretty determined when his fury is on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 Renly was just a silly fashionista.. I don't think he had much of a plan, or was really as serious person at all. Besides, he probably would have thought it was gross to produce an heir, and the 7 kingdoms would have been screwed! He sure came up with a better plan then Stannis has ever came up with. He directly mentions his intent to get Margaery pregnant by the end of the year, just because he is gay/bisexual doesn't mean he isn't going to produce a heir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaworth'sShipmate Posted September 22, 2014 Author Share Posted September 22, 2014 You don't think he would have given up in Stannis shoes, when marching on the Boltons? I just thought he was gay. And don't most gay men find sex with females disgusting and repulsive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard of the Rainking Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 You don't think he would have given up in Stannis shoes, when marching on the Boltons? No. And he would have probably gotten along splendidly with Big Bucket Wull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaworth'sShipmate Posted September 22, 2014 Author Share Posted September 22, 2014 At the very least Robert could have paid alimony to his baby mammas. I think it was wrong for him to have those whore houses in kings landing too. A lot of the hookers who work there were probably filled with Scabies, Syphillis gonnhorea and warts. Stannis did a lot for public hygiene by banning brothels and promoted the dignity of ladies, so they would not feel compelled into such a sad, unhealthy trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 You don't think he would have given up in Stannis shoes, when marching on the Boltons? I just thought he was gay. And don't most gay men find sex with females disgusting and repulsive?He wouldn't be in Stannis' shoes because he had a better planGay men have been having with women for ages Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaworth'sShipmate Posted September 22, 2014 Author Share Posted September 22, 2014 I personally hope Stannis will have a Danerys Barbecue. Or make Danerys flambé. Or perhaps a Danerys creme brûlée. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trigger Warning Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 Renly was just a silly fashionista.. I don't think he had much of a plan, or was really as serious person at all. What was Stannis' plan? Mount a suicidal expedition against his brother and hope he dies because Melisandre said he would. Then attack King's Landing with enemies still in the field.Where as Renly foolishly bound one of the mightiest lords in the Seven Kingdoms to himself and made a royal progress North as the Wolf and the Lion tore each other to ruins and the people of King's Landing try to kill their king in the street. What a joker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 I personally hope Stannis will have a Danerys Barbecue. Or make Danerys flambé. Or perhaps a Danerys creme brûlée. The reverse is billion times more likely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nastydream Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 Stannis only burnt people for the sake of the greater good. Its not as if he relished in killing them. At least he cared, while king Robert just say around and got fat and ogled women Renly is just a younger, gayer version of his older brother imo I personally hope Stannis will have a Danerys Barbecue. Or make Danerys flambé. Or perhaps a Danerys creme brûlée. If you're saying that Renly was a 'gayer' version of his older brother as in Robert then no not all. If you're saying that Renly was a 'gayer' version of his older brother as in Stannis then again no not all. From those 3 Renly is a lot more likeable. and I doubt Stannis will take out Dany Dany is a main character,she will either die in the end doing something meaningful or not die at all and doing whatever else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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