lady jellybean Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 My son firmly believes that lysa is a foreshadowing for sansa. He list several things like lysa's father killed her baby and she blamed cat and ned killed lady and sansa blamed arya. Both were tricked into writting letters by little finger. They both thought themselves in love with men who abused them. Littlefinger emotional and mentally and sansa physically and emotionally by joffrey. Then they were both married off to much older men who though were kind to them were emotionally distant. John cuz he was so much older and tyrion cuz of shae. Then they escaped the marriage by posion, john himself was posioned and tryion was accused of posioning joff. What do you guys think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balerion the one eared cat Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Interesting, I like it. Though I hope Sansa meets a better end than Lysa.I rather hope that all these parallels between the two show us how Sansa could have ended up...instead, I hope she'll break out of the mess she's in and make it on her own, and hopefully get revenge on Littlefinger and all those who have wronged her, perhaps by reuniting with her family - the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives. That way, we see how awful Sansa's life could have been...but instead she'll show that she has her own mother's strength rather than her aunt's psychosis, and fight her way out of the path that seems pretty predestined for her. I'm actually surprised I'm defending Sansa; I think it's only now I have finished the series and have taken a step back to reflect on it that I truly appreciate her as a character... because I really despised her whilst I was reading.Interesting theory! I just hope for Sansa's sake it's not true... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady jellybean Posted September 23, 2014 Author Share Posted September 23, 2014 I always defend sansa but my son always tells me, that if you think this has a happy ending you havent been paying attention. I hated sansa in the first couple of books, but grew to admire her. It took alot to not break in KL and I would hate to see that she would end up like lysa. Its the unkiss that concerns me. Is she repressing memories that are trying to come out or is she making things up to make everything seem better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Wedding Cake Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 I think it's too easy to draw parallels and generalities in the series. Catelyn didn't marry Ned for love, Cersei didn't marry Robert for love. King Robert Baratheon was poisoned in his wine before he was gutted by a boar. Some think Sansa Stark is a second Lyanna Stark because they both got roses at tourneys and wanted to marry princes. There are hundreds of characters in the books and I am skeptical whenever they're compared to each other for the sake of foreshadowing, unless they are a fictional character inside the fiction of the series in a prophecy like Azor Ahai or the Last Hero or other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archmaester Drew Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Welcome to the forum! :cheers: There are certainly some parallels, but I don't think it is foreshadowing. I think Sansa will survive. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dya of Oldstones Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Welcome to the forum. :) I'll have to go back and check the books, but there's a few differences I can think of right off the top of my head. Lysa was in love with LF and Sansa has been squicked out by him even as early as AGOT when she was at her most naive. I think Lysa still kept blaming Cat while Sansa eventually realizes that Joffrey and Cersei were to blame for Lady's death. The letters: Sansa wrote exactly what Cersei told her to write so anyone who knew her would see that she wasn't using her own words. Also, Lysa was still in love with LF until her death, whereas Sansa started seeing Joffrey as a monster fairly soon. I do think Sansa will survive the series, and some foreshadowing in the books implies to some of us that she may actually kill LF or be instrumental in his death. But like Red Wedding Cake mentioned above, trying to tease out foreshadowing can be tricky with the dots being connected after the event takes place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aje12 Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 I thinks its more character paralllels than foreshadowing... the books are full of them. To further the Lysa/Sansa comparison, (in their youths) they were both gentle souls, dreamy, romantic and sweet, while their sisters were more brave,fierce and practical. And both their character arcs are highly influenced by LF's obsession with Catelyn. Both at some point betrayed their family for hopeless infatuation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amoracchius Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 I think the key difference is that Lysa blindly loved Littlefinger, while never actually catching on to how "the game" is played, whereas Sansa is watching and learning from him. This is why I believe she will ultimately be Littlefinger's undoing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The hand that holds Dawn Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 I always defend sansa but my son always tells me, that if you think this has a happy ending you havent been paying attention. I love this....kind of reminds me of watching the show with my son...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 I am sorry, but I fail to see these parallels... Or at least, I don't think that these parallels are valid in terms of them forming some foreshadowing. For every parallel you can made like this, there are dozens of things where Sansa and Lysa differ from each other. Except of the red hair, there is basically zero character parallels between the two of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elizarys Stark Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Interesting comparison, never occured to me. Still, I don't think it adds up to foreshadowing. The key difference between the two is that Lysa is quite delusional, while Sansa has had her illusions ripped away from her. She knows LF is a player and a manipulator who can't really be trusted beyond trusting him to act in the interest of himself and his goals and to bring her along so long as that suits his plans. She may come to an unpleasant end, but that's not foreshadowing, that's just par for the course in this series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
para Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 I am sorry, but I fail to see these parallels... Or at least, I don't think that these parallels are valid in terms of them forming some foreshadowing. For every parallel you can made like this, there are dozens of things where Sansa and Lysa differ from each other. Except of the red hair, there is basically zero character parallels between the two of them.Disagree on the details - Sansa has definitely Lysa's talent for lying to herself, for example -- but agree on the main argument that there are infinite character parallels in ASOIAF that aren't foreshadowing but rather inevitable.Both Catelyn and Cersei are mothers of teenage kings and their names begin with C. Does this have to mean we are getting Lady "Lionheart"? Both Both Aemon and Bloodraven are ancient Targaryens, Brothers of the NW, troubled with the loss of sight, mentors to Stark kiddies. Yet only of one them is a powerful tree. Dolorous Edd is from the Vale, so is Sweetrobin, obviously Sweetrobin will defeat the Others using only his sharp self-depreciating wit. Come on.I get the idea that LF's crowning moment of evil is kicking poor Sansa out of a the metaphorical moon door after all he has done before and she had to go through before. A total "kick the dog" moment for the entire series, the point where the televised version would actually start losing viewers because really nothing good ever happens to good people. (A real (and not unfair) point people made after the RW.)But to hang that moment on selective and bent Lysa parallels instead of GRRM's realism/nihilism and Sansa's arc and the narrative potential of LF winning the Game while The Others are defeated is just not my type of argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady jellybean Posted September 23, 2014 Author Share Posted September 23, 2014 I love this....kind of reminds me of watching the show with my son...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady jellybean Posted September 23, 2014 Author Share Posted September 23, 2014 He leaves for college next year and the books and show are our thing to nerd out on. hes the one who got me reading them. Its nice thou. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 I gotta disagree because like another said above I think Sansa will take out LF. She's got his number and now all she needs is a plan. I frankly love the fact that we did not get her thoughts at the end of AFFC. Sadly I think Arya has a much higher chance of death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 My son firmly believes that lysa is a foreshadowing for sansa. He list several things like lysa's father killed her baby and she blamed cat and ned killed lady and sansa blamed arya. Did that actually happen? IIRC she blamed Hoster for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirri Maz Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 My son firmly believes that lysa is a foreshadowing for sansa. He list several things like lysa's father killed her baby and she blamed cat and ned killed lady and sansa blamed arya. Both were tricked into writting letters by little finger. They both thought themselves in love with men who abused them. Littlefinger emotional and mentally and sansa physically and emotionally by joffrey. Then they were both married off to much older men who though were kind to them were emotionally distant. John cuz he was so much older and tyrion cuz of shae. Then they escaped the marriage by posion, john himself was posioned and tryion was accused of posioning joff. What do you guys think. I don't remember Lysa blaming Cat for her forced abortion. She was jealous that Littlefinger was in love with Cat and upset/jealous when Robb was born because her baby had been killed. Also I'm not sure Lysa was tricked into writing the letter. Littlefinger told her to sure, but that doesn't mean she was tricked. Sansa stopped "loving" Joffrey when she realized what a terrible person he was. Lysa didn't seem to care that Littlefinger was a terrible person. “Tears, tears, tears,” she sobbed hysterically. “No need for tears... but that’s not what you said in King’s Landing. You told me to put the tears in Jon’s wine, and I did. For Robert, and for us! And I wrote Catelyn and told her the Lannisters had killed my lord husband, just as you said. That was so clever... you were always clever They way they view their respective marriages is quite different as well. Sansa's thoughts are generally that Tyrion was kind but she simply didn't want to be married to him. “No. He was only... he was...” Kind? She could not say that, not here, not to this aunt who hated him so. While Lysa seemed to actively dislike Jon, partly because she was in love with another. “Jon Arryn was no dwarf, but he was old. You may not think so to see me now, but on the day we wed I was so lovely I put your mother to shame. But all Jon desired was my father’s swords, to aid his darling boys. I should have refused him, but he was such an old man, how long could he live? Half his teeth were gone, and his breath smelled like bad cheese. I cannot abide a man with foul breath. Petyr’s breath is always fresh... he was the first man I ever kissed, you know ..................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... That was hard, to see him every day and still be wed to that old cold man. Jon did his duty in the bedchamber, but he could no more give me pleasure than he could give me children. His seed was old and weak. All my babies died but Robert, three girls and two boys. All my sweet little babies dead, and that old man just went on and on with his stinking breath Lysa seemed to hold out hope that one day she would be married to Petyr, whereas Sansa is beginning to think that she may never want to get married again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Eater Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 I am sorry, but I fail to see these parallels... Or at least, I don't think that these parallels are valid in terms of them forming some foreshadowing. For every parallel you can made like this, there are dozens of things where Sansa and Lysa differ from each other. Except of the red hair, there is basically zero character parallels between the two of them. Agreed, I think Lysa shares more parallels with Cersei. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyLittleFinger Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 My son firmly believes that lysa is a foreshadowing for sansa. He list several things like lysa's father killed her baby and she blamed cat and ned killed lady and sansa blamed arya. Both were tricked into writting letters by little finger. They both thought themselves in love with men who abused them. Littlefinger emotional and mentally and sansa physically and emotionally by joffrey. Then they were both married off to much older men who though were kind to them were emotionally distant. John cuz he was so much older and tyrion cuz of shae. Then they escaped the marriage by posion, john himself was posioned and tryion was accused of posioning joff. What do you guys think. I hope so, if so, I like the ring of Lord Petyr Baelish, Lord of Winterfell, Lord Paramount of the Trident, Lord Protector of the Vale and Lord of the Fingers :drool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ache Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 Agreed, I think Lysa shares more parallels with Cersei. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.