Could the Dothraki take all of Westeros with 300000 men?

[Universal Sword Donor]

This is westeros we're talking about betrayl is pretty much expected. If 300-100k show up in westeros many will unite to fight them .....but other lords will see oppertunity.

Starvation as siege tactic however is very plausible

The Dothraki are either going to kill everyone or kill most people and enslave the rest.

[Lion Of The Night]

The Dothraki are either going to kill everyone or kill most people and enslave the rest.

Granted they could always eat the captives, alieviating some of the food problems... Don't know if horses like soylent green though...

[hodorisfaclessman]

You dont have to deny them EVERY piece of grass or fodder! They will eat it all anyways. Besides we have already seen some in westeros wage a scorched earth policy with far less people attacking (the Blackfish vs the Freys) even if they don't get everything, they will severely handicap the dothraki. They would be forced to move jyst to eat, never stopping to try and take a town. All that time they are getting weaker. And its not like the Westerosi cant send a message ahead to tell other areas where the dothraki are moving to burn their fields, they do have ravens.

The problem is you have to deny them eveything within forageing by horseback radius a vast vast area to try and starve them from.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

The problem is you have to deny them eveything within forageing by horseback radius a vast vast area to try and starve them from.

No. You just need to deny them enough. And since the freaking horses eat ten times as much, and you've got three horses per Dothraki, you need to cover thirty times as much ground. Which you simply can't.

[hodorisfaclessman]

I think you're overestimating the mobility here, especially when, again, the terrain isn't all that conducive to a massive horde of wandering pillagers. Kind of hard to be mobile in a desert, in a dense forest (especially on horseback), in the middle of a bunch of rivers that need to be crossed, in a snowstorm, across a body of water, or a mountain range.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/images/e/e7/Map_of_westeros.jpg

depends where they go there are vast open areas in westeros too...it all depends on the commanders

If winter comes they are screwed though (as far as we know we have 0 idea how essos is affected or how the hell any world survives years of winter)

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Yes, these vast open areas exist in Westeros. They are called the Rylls, with summer snows and everything. That's it.

[The Mother of The Others]

Things to try if you're the Dothraki:

use the poaching approach to winter domination:

Start with Lots of Horses --> Skirmish --> Now You Have the Majority of the Horses --> Poach & Run Down the Lords' Messengers, Traders, Cavalry, Supply Train Animals, Etc. --> Soon you have almost all the horses --> you become the Travel Lords who've monopolized all the hooves, while the Westerosi Natives are relegated to being the Lords of Living Cooped Up in their Own Fortresses. Over time it gets stinky inside those walls as commerce dies out and the Doth raid the grain stores inbetween fortresses and time cooks the lords.

also, since there's so much snow:

I'd at least try experimenting with snow-ramps as a new building project to add on to the castles of westeros a nice gentle sloping hill of snow that connects with the castles high up against their battlements for ease of access from the outside.

[Lord Reaver]

Battle of Mohi

1. Not Genghis, but Subutai and Batu.

2. The Hungarian army was notably lacking in heavy cavalry, due to Bela having antagonized his barons. Thus, his army was mostly spear-wielding infantry. The knight templars reported present in some sources have been proven to be a later addition.

So, no. Still not a valid example.

[Dimples]

1. Not Genghis, but Subutai and Batu.

2. The Hungarian army was notably lacking in heavy cavalry, due to Bela having antagonized his barons. Thus, his army was mostly spear-wielding infantry. The knight templars reported present in some sources have been proven to be a later addition.

So, no. Still not a valid example.

Didn't the Khawarezmian Empire have heavy cavalry?

[Lion Of The Night]

The problem is you have to deny them eveything within forageing by horseback radius a vast vast area to try and starve them from.

Ok a horse needs between 10 to 25 lbs of high quality fodder per day (not just grass but legumes, seed, etc...) grass takes about 10 to 30 days to grow back depending on the grass. So if we take in to account proper management (unlikely) and only one horse per dothraki (also unlikely) they will need an area of about 1800 km2!

Now how far can horses go to forage now?

Take only a third of that away, and horses start to weaken, and can't go that far to pasture. The logistics just don't work out. Not without outside supply chains.

[hodorisfaclessman]

No. You just need to deny them enough. And since the freaking horses eat ten times as much, and you've got three horses per Dothraki, you need to cover thirty times as much ground. Which you simply can't.

They can also range much much further out to get that required food too so denying them 'enough ' isnt as easy as it sounds

also you have to know ahead of time exactly where they will be comming

[Lion Of The Night]

They can also range much much further out to get that required food too so denying them 'enough ' isnt as easy as it sounds

also you have to know ahead of time exactly where they will be comming

Ravens!

An army of that size will be easy to track, and ravens would be sent to the castles in the areas they are heading, so they can prepare.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

They can also range much much further out to get that required food too so denying them 'enough ' isnt as easy as it sounds

also you have to know ahead of time exactly where they will be comming

If only Westeros had developed a pretty reliable system for sending news ahead ...

As a bonus, if the Dothraki aren't familiar with the raven system, then the birds can come and go without them even knowing what's happening.

[kimim]

Ok,I know nothing, zilch, nada, about military history or tactics. However, I do know that the Mongols, in the 13th century, took a good portion of Anatolia, Central-Eastern Europe, not to mention China, where they ruled for a century. I don't know much about Chinese armies, but my gut instinct is that the Chinese were way ahead of Europeans in every way at this point. idk if this would be reflected in armor. In Europe, they defeated (I think) heavy cavalry and armored knights, keeping in mind that back then, as in Westeros, these would make up only a small proportion of any given army.

My knee-jerk feeling offered in ignorance is that IF (big if) they somehow transported themselves, their horses, and arms to Westeros in those numbers, Westeros would be in dire, dire trouible.

[Lord Reaver]

Ok,I know nothing, zilch, nada, about military history or tactics. However, I do know that the Mongols, in the 13th century, took a good portion of Anatolia, Central-Eastern Europe, not to mention China, where they ruled for a century. I don't know much about Chinese armies, but my gut instinct is that the Chinese were way ahead of Europeans in every way at this point. idk if this would be reflected in armor. In Europe, they defeated (I think) heavy cavalry and armored knights, keeping in mind that back then, as in Westeros, these would make up only a small proportion of any given army.

I am afraid much of what you've said here are myths, sadly being perpetuated due to the Mongols impressive feats being blown out of proportion into them being some sort of ubermensch ninja-fremen.

[Ralaga nar hallas]

eh the only way i see them having an impact (and its a big if) is to first get past the various westeros navies (not likely) and as they have zero boating experience. i dont see that going well for them no matter how many troops/boats they bring.

but if they can get past that the best time for them to strike would be one of two ways

1. land a small force (35-50,000) to raid and cause chaos and wait for armies to muster and be sent to engage them. when the enemy armies leave their castles to go crush the small force of dothraki the rest of the force then lands and envolops them and takes out a good portion of idealy the best troops westeros could muster.

even then logistics would be a huge problem as well as disease as to this day drinking water in different countries can make people sick who knows what diseases would effect them on landing in westeros.

2. and more likely to initaly succeed is wait for the rival factions who are fighting for the iron throne to have a major battle by intelegence or other secret means.on finding out when and where the rival westeros factions are going to do battle. the dothraki would then try to land near the battle but out of sight and then try to take out the two larger factions as they do battle with eachother.

with two weakend armies they could have massive initial success and instil enough fear in whats left of the otehr armies in westeros that they could gain a foothold and try to hold it and spread from there

this would hinge on not being taken out by westeros navies or being discovered before attempting a massive ambush. but its how i see them trying it and with out local allies they are mostlikely doomed to failure

[Universal Sword Donor]

Ok,I know nothing, zilch, nada, about military history or tactics. However, I do know that the Mongols, in the 13th century, took a good portion of Anatolia, Central-Eastern Europe, not to mention China, where they ruled for a century. I don't know much about Chinese armies, but my gut instinct is that the Chinese were way ahead of Europeans in every way at this point. idk if this would be reflected in armor. In Europe, they defeated (I think) heavy cavalry and armored knights, keeping in mind that back then, as in Westeros, these would make up only a small proportion of any given army.

My knee-jerk feeling offered in ignorance is that IF (big if) they somehow transported themselves, their horses, and arms to Westeros in those numbers, Westeros would be in dire, dire trouible.

The mongol armies were far smaller than the proposed force and they had a supply line for materiel and siege equipment if nothing else. Their weapons and armor were on par with or exceeded European weapons and armor. Their tactics and discipline were far better. They had advanced knowledge of siege tactics and warfare from the Chinese.

The Dothraki army is 300K with around a million horses. Their weapons and lack of armor make them markedly inferior to Westerosi forces. Their tactics seem to be infantile or non-existent from what we've seen or been told. They have no knowledge of siege warfare.

Even if they didn't starve or die of dysentery, they'd be toast when it came to actual fighting.

[Lion Of The Night]

Ok,I know nothing, zilch, nada, about military history or tactics. However, I do know that the Mongols, in the 13th century, took a good portion of Anatolia, Central-Eastern Europe, not to mention China, where they ruled for a century. I don't know much about Chinese armies, but my gut instinct is that the Chinese were way ahead of Europeans in every way at this point. idk if this would be reflected in armor. In Europe, they defeated (I think) heavy cavalry and armored knights, keeping in mind that back then, as in Westeros, these would make up only a small proportion of any given army.

My knee-jerk feeling offered in ignorance is that IF (big if) they somehow transported themselves, their horses, and arms to Westeros in those numbers, Westeros would be in dire, dire trouible.

The chinese were advanced but their armies were pathetic. And like I mentioned earlier they did not have the system of castles and fortifications the Europeans had.

I do like the mongolians battle tactics and admire their style of warfare, but taking europe would not be the walk in the park some would have you believe. It would be a hard wrought fight, and I don't know if they would have succeeded.

[Lion Of The Night]

some sort of ubermensch ninja-fremen.

I like that... Lol

[kimim]

I am afraid much of what you've said here are myths, sadly being perpetuated due to the Mongols impressive feats being blown out of proportion into them being some sort of ubermensch ninja-fremen.

That they ruled China for a century is not a myth. That they took a good portion of Anatolia, is not a myth. Their attacks upon Central-Eastern Europe are not myths. They were not endlessly successful; they could be defeated. They were, however, fucking scary.

I'm not saying they're some weird ubermensh. I'm saying that if, by some miracle, they land in those numbers in Westeros, there'd be a lot of dead people.