Kingmonkey Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 I'd place my bets on magical reinforced composite bows :-) - Seriously: I had a student who participated in modern archery competitions (and I don't think that a medieval archer would recognize the equipment he used as a bow) and he claimed that several hundred metres is not a problem, only accuracy, but if he did manage to hit someone, the arrow would still pass through. /disclaimer/ I have only his word for this, though. Longbows could reach over 300m (980 ft) away, but that's a ballistic trajectory. Quick calcs: angle of fire = 45 degrees, requires 55m/s launch velocity to reach 308m Maximum height achievable @55m/s (by firing straight up, obviously only good if you want to hit yourself) = 154m (about 500 feet) To get an arrow on top of the wall, let's call it a 70 degree angle of fire, you'd need a launch velocity of 69m/s. That would give a horizontal range @45 degrees of 485m. That's way more than anyone's ever managed, as far as I know. Additionally, the arrow would have almost no velocity at that point in the trajectory, so it wouldn't do much damage. GRRM+numbers=nope nope nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 Longbows could reach over 300m (980 ft) away, but that's a ballistic trajectory. Quick calcs: angle of fire = 45 degrees, requires 55m/s launch velocity to reach 308m Maximum height achievable @55m/s (by firing straight up, obviously only good if you want to hit yourself) = 154m (about 500 feet) To get an arrow on top of the wall, let's call it a 70 degree angle of fire, you'd need a launch velocity of 69m/s. That would give a horizontal range @45 degrees of 485m. That's way more than anyone's ever managed, as far as I know. Additionally, the arrow would have almost no velocity at that point in the trajectory, so it wouldn't do much damage. GRRM+numbers=nope nope nope. This. I have to say I was pleased when I saw that the show 'fixed' this by having the giant send up some arrows instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingmonkey Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 This. I have to say I was pleased when I saw that the show 'fixed' this by having the giant send up some arrows instead. Yes, loved that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 Yes, loved that! God, that was an awesome episode XD I don't care how impractical it is, I want Martin to work the scythe into the story somehow now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Morris Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 Bless that wandering Septon. He totally knows something. i know its an old post BQ87 but i think he has a part to play still does the wandering septon . And would love to hear you guys views on the WS and also on the grave digger/ hound theory i thought Arya finished the hound off ? I havent had a re read in a while so have just finished AGOT and have started re reading ACOK . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Morris Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 However Robert defeated Rhaegar must have been fair because there was no immediate uproar stating what a dirty trick Robert did . But i always have the mental image of them almost duelling as champions would sometimes do before the fight . IIRC doesnt it say somewhere in AGOT about Robert bludgeoning his way to get to Rhaegar and then they meet in the waters . So i think Robert probably knocked him from his horse then put his spike right through his black heart . And by Rhaegar fighting honourably probably means he fought Robert man to man instead of hiding behind Kings guards or even not taking the field himself and commanding from the rear like Tywin Lannister does . A lot of people fear Tywin and that has nothing to do with martial ability !! Rhaegar would have been quite within his rights to command from the rear and let his generals fight the battle and if somehow the day went badly he could have retreated and fought another day . If somehow Robert managed to get close to Rhaegar he should have had to fight through a lot of knights guarding the crown prince and if the fight was going badly they would have sacrificed themselves in order for Rhaegar to escape . Rhaegar had absolutely no business being in the thick of the fighting !!! . But seeing as Rhaegar was an honourable man i dont think he would have asked anyone to die for him so he met his fate head on and fell to an honourable death . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 GRRM+numbers=nope nope nope. Yep yep yep :agree: However Robert defeated Rhaegar must have been fair because there was no immediate uproar stating what a dirty trick Robert did . But i always have the mental image of them almost duelling as champions would sometimes do before the fight . IIRC doesnt it say somewhere in AGOT about Robert bludgeoning his way to get to Rhaegar and then they meet in the waters . So i think Robert probably knocked him from his horse then put his spike right through his black heart . And by Rhaegar fighting honourably probably means he fought Robert man to man instead of hiding behind Kings guards or even not taking the field himself and commanding from the rear like Tywin Lannister does . A lot of people fear Tywin and that has nothing to do with martial ability !! Rhaegar would have been quite within his rights to command from the rear and let his generals fight the battle and if somehow the day went badly he could have retreated and fought another day . If somehow Robert managed to get close to Rhaegar he should have had to fight through a lot of knights guarding the crown prince and if the fight was going badly they would have sacrificed themselves in order for Rhaegar to escape . Rhaegar had absolutely no business being in the thick of the fighting !!! . But seeing as Rhaegar was an honourable man i dont think he would have asked anyone to die for him so he met his fate head on and fell to an honourable death . A good point about a honourable man not avoiding the fight but there is a discrepancy in the description of the duel - Ned (who, however, turned up only afterwards) speaks about them rushing towards each other on their destriers, while the HotU vision has Rhaegar sink to his knees, i.e. on foot. When this was discussed in one of the previous incarnations of the thread, it was tied with Barristan commenting on the fight between Belwas and Oznak, that a honourable man would dismount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Morris Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 Yep yep yep :agree: A good point about a honourable man not avoiding the fight but there is a discrepancy in the description of the duel - Ned (who, however, turned up only afterwards) speaks about them rushing towards each other on their destriers, while the HotU vision has Rhaegar sink to his knees, i.e. on foot. When this was discussed in one of the previous incarnations of the thread, it was tied with Barristan commenting on the fight between Belwas and Oznak, that a honourable man would dismount. Do you sort of mean like if they fought with lance and one was dismounted it would be honourable for the one still mounted to dismount and then carry one the fight rather than riding him down like the hound and mycah ? If you put yourself in Roberts position you have to admit you would finish him while still mounted then shout your victory . Given Roberts hatred of Rhaegar it seems plausible to me that he would just ride him down and finish him . So in order for Robert to have done something dishonourable he must have used a dirty trick to get Rhaegar off his horse because if Rhaegar knocked Robert off his horse first the weight of armour etc would have probably ended Roberts battle then and there with a broken leg or some such injury. So do you imagine a scenario where Rhaegar gets down off his horse to ask Robert to yield and then Robert somehow rams his war hammers spike upwards into Rhaegars chest thus causing him to sink to his knees ? If so in my opinion it was still honourable so long as he didn't say yield and then spike him !!M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted September 29, 2014 Author Share Posted September 29, 2014 Do you sort of mean like if they fought with lance and one was dismounted it would be honourable for the one still mounted to dismount and then carry one the fight rather than riding him down like the hound and mycah ? If you put yourself in Roberts position you have to admit you would finish him while still mounted then shout your victory . Given Roberts hatred of Rhaegar it seems plausible to me that he would just ride him down and finish him . So in order for Robert to have done something dishonourable he must have used a dirty trick to get Rhaegar off his horse because if Rhaegar knocked Robert off his horse first the weight of armour etc would have probably ended Roberts battle then and there with a broken leg or some such injury. So do you imagine a scenario where Rhaegar gets down off his horse to ask Robert to yield and then Robert somehow rams his war hammers spike upwards into Rhaegars chest thus causing him to sink to his knees ? If so in my opinion it was still honourable so long as he didn't say yield and then spike him !!M The scenario proposed is that Rhaegar and Robert started their battle ahorse, and that Robert lost his horse at some point. We read, at least once, that such a thing does happen during a battle. It would allowed for Rhaegar to then stay on his horse, as that would be a rather big advantage he would have over Robert. But it would not be the honourable thing to do. That would be for Rhaegar to get off his horse as well, and continue the fight a foot. That Robert won in the end was bad luck on Rhaegars part. No body is saying that Robert fought with dishonour. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 The scenario proposed is that Rhaegar and Robert started their battle ahorse, and that Robert lost his horse at some point. We read, at least once, that such a thing does happen during a battle. It would allowed for Rhaegar to then stay on his horse, as that would be a rather big advantage he would have over Robert. But it would not be the honourable thing to do. That would be for Rhaegar to get off his horse as well, and continue the fight a foot. That Robert won in the end was bad luck on Rhaegars part. No body is saying that Robert fought with dishonour. ;) What she said :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alia of the knife Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 A couple of observations. I think one way to speculate on the direction Martin may go in is to find the answers buried in what he loves, or influences him. There is no better fanboy than Martin himself.H loves history, the classics, as well as other writers, (well most of them,(cough), "Lost," (cough).So I think of it as "Six Degrees of Deparation," but instead of Kevin Bacon, its Martin at the core. :D As a student of history, it would not be lost upon him the deathbed of confession of a certain tortured Priest who performed the rites of Edward IV's Troth Plight with a woman who preceded Elizabeth Woodville.Troth Plighting was akin to marriage, and it threw his marriage to Elizabeth into question, making his children with her, "bastards."Enter Richard the Third I imagine that a certain wondering Septon will find himself on his deathbed very shortly, and will need to make a confession. Buh bye Dani. And Howland, much like Merlin will soon make his presence known as he has likely been with us all along. Brandon Stark/Sonny Corleone: While it has been since disproven that LF had anything to do with giving the infamous, hot tempered wolf bad information, that doesn't mean that Lysa, or more likely, a Bolten didn't "tweak" the information. Lastly, Rhaegar should have stayed on that horse and mowed Robert down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 God, that was an awesome episode XD I don't care how impractical it is, I want Martin to work the scythe into the story somehow now. Oh lord the scythe! I feel like that was a bone they threw fans for not having the giant chain in the Blackwater episode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Lastly, Rhaegar should have stayed on that horse and mowed Robert down. Totally The fact that he didn't speak volumes about Rhaegar, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Hulboy Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I don't think Varys has any idea about jon an when he finds out he will be sorry he didn't send him gifts . I hope it's Stannis who takes Varys out of the game but think Jon Con may kill him when he finds out he lied to him an Jon is Rheagars true son . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alia of the knife Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Totally The fact that he didn't speak volumes about Rhaegar, IMO. Rhaegar needs to take a page from "Walking Dead's" Rick Grimes book of honor- the best of both worlds. ^_^ (gods I hope at some point Jon hits Gendry with a hammer). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost's Shadow Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Alia has no love for Gendry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Rhaegar needs to take a page from "Walking Dead's" Rick Grimes book of honor- the best of both worlds. ^_^ (gods I hope at some point Jon hits Gendry with a hammer). LOL. Poor Gendry! Though, poetic.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnmaskedLurker Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 LOL. Poor Gendry! Though, poetic.... Poetic, perhaps, but justice . . . I don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Poetic, perhaps, but justice . . . I don't think so. Arya will appear just in the nick of time with Needle to save Gendry. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alia of the knife Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Alia has no love for Gendry? Anyone who knows me knows I always proceed with caution if someone seems too good to be true. :ph34r: While he may have jealousies that are based on different motivations than his father, and he seems to have a greater respect for women, his momentary jealousy of Arya and Edric gave me pause. Arya will appear just in the nick of time with Needle to save Gendry. :) Unless Jon and Gendry are fighting over Arya............ :o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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