Dangerous Dog advice

[H von T2]

Hero status starts at adopting a dog but is not attained until you have developed a good (i.e,. paying) relationship with your local veterinary professional. Only then can you step into the elevated ranks of true heroes, those who proactively care for their pets to make them healthy members of society.*

*this message brought to you by a partnership of the American Veterinary Medical Association and the American Animal Hospital Association. Please care for your pets responsibly and remember only a valid relationship with your local veterinary professional will make you a true hero. Anything short of that? You are not a hero and most likely a filthy human being.

Ha! In that case I should win the Nobel Prize for Hero Dog Owners because our border collie mix is going to get two new hips sometime in the near future. We're managing it with pain pills for now, but he definitely limps if he runs around a lot.

[rozemarijn]

To clear up a few misconceptions:

I don't hate my SIL, we just don't talk much. Estranged might have been a little strong. It's more fair to say "a SIL that I only really see at Christmas....and when she posts pictures on facebook of her dog that got almost murdered by her other dog".e.

As in you have not met the dogs but basing a complaint upon facebook pictures?

[Ken Stone]

As in you have not met the dogs but basing a complaint upon facebook pictures?

A picture's worth a thousand words. In this case those words were "I had half my face ripped off by a big mean dog. How was your day?"

[Ulthosian Stark]

Ugh.

My first experience with a "rescue" was when I was in Rochester visiting family, me and my cousins were young, like preteens all and a red nose pit bull walks into their little backyard.

Once my aunt realized it wasn't the neighbors dog she flipped out and came out of the house with a baseball bat.

This dog ended up being one of the best dogs ever. It actually defended my cousin from a stray shepherd mix that charged them at night.

OP, please define these attempted murders. A fight that ended up with some cuts isn't attempted murder, my west highland terriers tear each other up once in a while and have gotten a bit bloody, no biggie.

Dogs aren't just like oh I want to kill you oh now I don't, if it was a bad enough issue where the other dog did intend to kill the nicer one, you couldn't let the dogs see each other at all or the attacker would attack. So if they spend time together and its fine most of the time DONT WORRY ABOUT IT.

Your sisters kids are probably safer with the bulls then not. After bull-baiting the 2nd most popular use of them were to GUARD children.

[Trebla]

It was also disheartening to read zelticgar's post about the stereotype of pitbulls.

Well if you look at the figures of fatal dog attacks and you see how many of them were by pit bulls, you start wondering if it's really a stereotype.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_States

[Mudguard]

Well if you look at the figures of fatal dog attacks and you see how many of them were by pit bulls, you start wondering if it's really a stereotype.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_States

Yeah, lots of pit bulls/pit bull mixes on that list. It's also striking how many fatalities involved a family dog.

That said, I've met a lot of super friendly, super happy pit bulls at the dog park, so they are certainly not all inherently vicious. But the ones that are aggressive are probably much more dangerous than many other dog types due to various traits of the breed.

[Ramsay Gimp]

Well if you look at the figures of fatal dog attacks and you see how many of them were by pit bulls, you start wondering if it's really a stereotype.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_States

:agree:

Even if a lot of the attacks were actually from "pit bull mixes," how does that help the breed's case? Clearly there's something about pit bull genes that makes a dog predisposed to violence

That said, I've met a lot of super friendly, super happy pit bulls at the dog park, so they are certainly not all inherently vicious. But the ones that are aggressive are probably much more dangerous than many other dog types due to various traits of the breed.

The first sentence doesn't really follow logically.

No one's denying that there are many nice pit bulls. But the breed is still problematic

[Ramsay Gimp]

Pitbulls used to be known as "nanny dogs" for their loyalty and protectiveness they'd look after children.

Whoever said all pitbulls should be put down instead of rescued is talking grade A BULLSHIT. Dogs that are aggressive towards other dogs are not necessarily aggressive towards Humans. And all dogs should be treated as individual cases due to dogs mostly being bred at random these days with no desire to continue breeding them for their original purpose. The mass euthanasia of a whole breed of dogs who are in need of rescuing that is being advocated by an ignorant person is disgusting.

whoever told me not to get so "worked up" about dogs; i will get worked up over whatever the hell i want to and i don't eat dogs because i don't eat any animal, im not putting dogs on pedestals here, im having basic respect for an animal.

FTR, I never advocated mass euthanasia of all pit bulls. I think euthanizing those found to be seriously abused or neglected (or at least putting them under specialized supervision rather than "rescue") and sterilizing the rest would be more reasonable. Also, it offers very little comfort to tell someone whose dog was mauled by a pit "well he isn't aggressive with humans!"

And all dogs should be treated as individual cases due to dogs mostly being bred at random these days with no desire to continue breeding them for their original purpose.

This actually helps my case. If there is widespread irresponsible breeding going on, which there is, then that breed will have more issues. In Pit Bulls and related mixes this manifests in ugly violence. Not the dog's fault, but that's irrelevant to whether the breed is one we should keep around

[Stannisaurus2]

Even if pit-bulls are not inherently more violent than the average dog, they are still potentially far more dangerous due to their increased damage capacity which naturally and justifiably makes people negatively pre-disposed towards them considering that dogs are animals (i.e. no reasoning skills). Anyone who can't understand that has a problem.

[Balefont]

I recently read that the most aggressive breed is actually the Daschund. The difference here is that the stronger the breed, the greater the damage. Also, it's media coverage. Labs and Golden's (i.e. "family dogs") have been known to "snap" and attack children but rarely are these incidents reported.

As an owner of 3 Boxers, one a rescue < flicks off Ken >, I believe it is my responsibility to ensure their proper training and containment. Are there bad, irresponsible owners out there? Sure. There are also plenty of shitty parents.

And like most threads about animals here, I defer to Ix's suggestions.

Also: http://www.pickthepit.com

[aceluby]

Even if pit-bulls are not inherently more violent than the average dog, they are still potentially far more dangerous due to their increased damage capacity which naturally and justifiably makes people negatively pre-disposed towards them considering that dogs are animals (i.e. no reasoning skills). Anyone who can't understand that has a problem.

They have no more damage capacity than any other big dog. Therefore they are NOT far more dangerous. You've employed terrible logic skills.

[aceluby]

Well if you look at the figures of fatal dog attacks and you see how many of them were by pit bulls, you start wondering if it's really a stereotype.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_States

Again, these are flawed statistics because PEOPLE can't correctly identify a pit bull.

[Ken Stone]

Ugh.

My first experience with a "rescue" was when I was in Rochester visiting family, me and my cousins were young, like preteens all and a red nose pit bull walks into their little backyard.

Once my aunt realized it wasn't the neighbors dog she flipped out and came out of the house with a baseball bat.

This dog ended up being one of the best dogs ever. It actually defended my cousin from a stray shepherd mix that charged them at night.

OP, please define these attempted murders. A fight that ended up with some cuts isn't attempted murder, my west highland terriers tear each other up once in a while and have gotten a bit bloody, no biggie.

Dogs aren't just like oh I want to kill you oh now I don't, if it was a bad enough issue where the other dog did intend to kill the nicer one, you couldn't let the dogs see each other at all or the attacker would attack. So if they spend time together and its fine most of the time DONT WORRY ABOUT IT.

Your sisters kids are probably safer with the bulls then not. After bull-baiting the 2nd most popular use of them were to GUARD children.

One dog is blind in one eye and deaf, and extremely timid. The other every once in awhile decides that dog shouldn't be allowed to be breathe anymore and tries to rip it's face off. It appears you are going down a slippery slope of victim blaming here.

My SIL doesn't have little children. It's the neighbor kids I am worried about.

[aceluby]

One dog is blind in one eye and deaf, and extremely timid. The other every once in awhile decides that dog shouldn't be allowed to be breathe anymore and tries to rip it's face off. It appears you are going down a slippery slope of victim blaming here.

My SIL doesn't have little children. It's the neighbor kids I am worried about.

Dogs don't do that. The issue you seem to be having is that of which many don't understand of pit bulls. You aren't picking up on the warnings because pit bulls use non-vocal warnings. Stares, being still, ears, etc... and therefore because you don't have the ability to pick up on those signs you incorrectly believe the dog 'just snaps'. But as has been shown time and time again, dogs don't do that.

[TrackerNeil]

I'm a fairly zero-tolerance guy: If a dog bites a human seriously (not just playing) they're a danger to other people, and should either be kept under very strict supervision (no contact with children, etc.) or put down.

Hear, hear!

Also, I take issue with the it's-not-the-dog-it's-the-owner line of defense. Yes, an irresponsible owner can turn a relatively peaceful dog into a dangerous one, but he can't make it physically capable of killing a grown human being. That's just genetics. It seems to me, therefore, that it's a mix of both, so I don't think anyone is unreasonable to be wary of large dogs.

However, I think a neat solution is to hold owners legally responsible for the damage their pets cause. Those who are 100% confident that their pit bull or German Shepherd or whatever is perfectly safe should be willing to risk their life and limb on that -- just as non-owners must.

[Ken Stone]

Dogs don't do that. The issue you seem to be having is that of which many don't understand of pit bulls. You aren't picking up on the warnings because pit bulls use non-vocal warnings. Stares, being still, ears, etc... and therefore because you don't have the ability to pick up on those signs you incorrectly believe the dog 'just snaps'. But as has been shown time and time again, dogs don't do that.

I wasn't there. I just saw the aftermath. Maybe the timid dog had it coming. Maybe it was asking for it. Maybe it wore a provocative outfit. I really don't know.

[Quoth]

My current dog, a mutt, is from a shelter. He's a gentle clown. Most times. Occassionally, he gets cranky around strangers. Early on after adopting him, while walking him, a neighborhood kid asked to pet him. He tolerated it for three or four strokes before growling and shying away from the kid. A pretty weird reaction that I'd never seen from any of my prior dogs, who were also from the shelter. I immediately put myself between dog and kid and led the dog away. But that's surely enough warning to me, the dog owner. I don't walk him near any strangers, even crossing the street to avoid it. When asked by kids to pet him, I apologize and say, "Sorry, he really doesn't like strangers to touch him." It's just common sense not to take the chance.

Most jurisdictions have a "one free bite" rule. That is, until you become aware that your dog has an affinity for biting, you're not liable for a "first bite". The rule does not apply to breeds judicially determined to have a viscious propensity (German Shepards, Rotweillers, Akitas, Pit Bulls...). Owning such a dog opens you up to liability even with the first bite.

[aceluby]

Hear, hear!

Also, I take issue with the it's-not-the-dog-it's-the-owner line of defense. Yes, an irresponsible owner can turn a relatively peaceful dog into a dangerous one, but he can't make it physically capable of killing a grown human being. That's just genetics. It seems to me, therefore, that it's a mix of both, so I don't think anyone is unreasonable to be wary of large dogs.

However, I think a neat solution is to hold owners legally responsible for the damage their pets cause. Those who are 100% confident that their pit bull or German Shepherd or whatever is perfectly safe should be willing to risk their life and limb on that -- just as non-owners must.

It's not unreasonable to be wary of large dogs. It IS unreasonable to suggest that a specific breed of large dogs is more dangerous than other breeds of large dogs and therefore should be banned, euthanized, or should be illegal to breed.

And I agree, dog owners should be legally responsible for their pets, are they not?

[TrackerNeil]

And I agree, dog owners should be legally responsible for their pets, are they not?

I don't know, but what I have in mind is that if a dog does something that would be considered a crime if a human being did it, the owner is considered to have committed that crime. So if Bowser tears off someone's face, John Jones is in the dock for Aggravated Assault or whatever the charge would be. So by "responsible" I mean "criminally liable."

[Alarich]

Again, these are flawed statistics because PEOPLE can't correctly identify a pit bull.

Um yeah, all the stats are flawed because stupid humans can't tell a random dog (for example German sheperd) from a pitbull, pits don't snap because stupid humans don't recognize the signs and finally, they don't have larger damaging capacity because apparently stupid humans didn't breed them to fight and kill other dogs (in a pit).

I guess it's time for the stupid humans, especially their braindead offspring, to just stop wandering about and getting mauled by poor, misunderstood pitbull.